<p>Nocousin, my comments were addressed directly to PatM, not to you. But, to answer your question I mean he will not be able to get out of his binding contract if GWU determines he has less financial need than he thinks he has, and if that happens, then all his other choices will "slam the door" on him, as you state.</p>
<p>I am simply asking questions based on factual information and what is required when you sign an ED contract. I don't know why you would imply I'm being harsh or judgemental with those questions. I'm just being realistic with regard to contractual obligations and financial aid, and I hope PatM is too. I'm wish him well and hope he hasn't put himself into a financially difficult situation.</p>
<p>Fine. I just thought you were a little hard on him. I dont think either you nor I know his situation and only he knows what Fordham offered, while GWU (he says) has yet to inform him what his financial package is going to be (which is precisely why I answered his questions.) I was not trying to encourage him to dump GWU in any sense of the word. He asked about IR at Fordham (and he seemed to really like Fordham) and I answered him. I know a bit about ED contracts as well. Not every school is the same with respect to that. If I were him I would be all over GWU to get him the financial package so he knows what his status is. Nor do I know what Fordham will do with his situation, and he will have to discuss that with them if GWU gives him inadequate financial aid.</p>
<p>I dont think a school can play that game of saying "your needs are much lower than you believe they are" and then hold people's feet to the fire on their ED contract. If they accept somebody ED, they have to provide the financial aid necessary or risk losing their student. How much of that aid will be student loans, I don't know. </p>
<p>Again, my position was a criticism less of you than it is of the ED process. Its grossly unfair. Some schools only have ED and dont offer an EA option, and then have been known to be skimpy on financial aid. That is worse than hardball, that is a curve ball. (I am not suggesting GWU does this.)</p>
<p>I dont want any student to be put in a bind or be out in the cold because of this situation, but it does occur, largely because of the ED school's policies. I have long advocated dumping ED completely, as Harvard and most of the Ivy League has done.</p>
<p>What is unfair is people not playing by the rules, otherwise known as "cheating." There are well known ED rules. If you do not want to participate, no one is forcing you to apply to schools that have ED. If you do choose to apply and get the definite advantage that ED provides, then it is unfair not to abide by the contract you signed. Yes, you are allowed to back out of ED if the school does not meet your financial need, but that is financial need as determined by the school using the FAFSA EFC, not what the student and their family decide is financial "need." There are people making $200,000+ who don't feel they can afford a school although their EFC is way above "0." My S wanted to apply ED to his first choice school, but I explained to him we would have to compare the financial aid offers from multiple schools. The only legitimate way to do this is to apply EA and RD and wait until April when all colleges have responded with decisions.</p>
<p>Oh goodness. This has now become a tirade about ED. Its not cheating if you legitimately cant afford to go somewhere. NOBODY knows what a school will offer you when you apply. And some schools really dont do a very good job, in my purview, of playing fair. To me, if they have ED as an option, then their Admissions and Financial Aid should be in sync and when their offers go out they should include an offer of Financial Aid, to be verified by the usual tax returns etc. But to hold someone bound by the ED contract and not tell them what their financial package is, in my view, is inappropriate. I dont know what GWU will give him. And he didnt come off to me as someone trying to "cheat the system". I dont know if GWU even offers an EA alternative or not. But I surely wouldnt go accusing PatM of "cheating" simply by making inquiry here on CC about Fordham's IR program when he simply didnt know what GWU was going to offer him, and he openly stated his family income was lower. </p>
<p>I agree people should be held to their word and contracts and its unjust to apply ED and then balk and walk away for nefarious reasons or simply a "change of mind". But legitimate financial woes? That is clearly spelled out in EVERY ED contract you are permitted to withdraw under those circumstances.</p>
<p>And fwiw, my remarks to him that "I am sure Fordham's doors will always be open to you" was meant for following years, should he attend GWU and later decide its not for him. It had nothing to do with his situation now. </p>
<p>My agenda was simply to answer his question, congratulate him on both accounts, and send a clear signal of empathy for his predicament. And of course, the caveat is always, I am only dealing with the facts as presented here.</p>
<p>Again, I am a strong proponent of trashing the ED system and making all college admissions EA and RD only. There have been numerous threads and tons of magazine articles about the evils of the ED system and the games that people play and the games that COLLEGES play. I am not suggesting that GWU did that. Only that he simply does not know what their offer is.</p>
<p>nocousin-I don't know why you would characterize my response as a "tirade." I'm just stating my opinion. Nothing personal. But let me clarify-PatM could have applied to GWU RD and to Fordham and several other fine schools that have his program of interest. Then he could have compared financial packages and determined where he could afford to go. I love GW's Elliot School program, but there are other choices if finances are a problem. My D was in the same position as PatM several years ago, when she applied to GWU ED and to Fordham EA, but once she was accepted to GW she never considered backing out of the agreement. She wrote Fordham a lovely note, telling them it was an honor to have been accepted(she truly loved Fordham also), but that for undergraduate she would be attending elsewhere. As it turned out, GW gave her some very generous aid. Peace to you too BTW... just stating my perspective.</p>
<p>Researchmaven, you just hit the nail right on the head. I 100% agree with your assessment. My d did the same as your son when she applied to colleges. She chose EA instead of ED because of the ED required binding commitment without knowlege of scholarships or financial aid. If you can't afford it, it's not wise to apply ED.</p>
<p>so anyway, about those EA applications and not PatM and his early decision dilemma...i heard that the acceptance letter comes in a yellow envelope? Does anyone know if there is any validity in this statement?</p>
<p>I just thought I would like to clear things up so. My family makes well under $100,000 a year. By no means am i trying to cheat the system. I fully understand where you are coming from with that, because I too see many students whose family's make over $200,000 a year trying to pick their own financial need than have the college pick it for them. I applied ED to GWU because i truly did love the school, especially since it is great for international affairs. I decided to go ED and not RD because I sincerely felt my chances would be greater, considering my SAT scores were well out of their averages. Had I did RD, I may have not been accepted. I chose to apply there ED fully knowing it is one of the most expensive schools in the country. But I did so half hoping and expecting a fair package of financial aid due to my family's situation, a situation nobody understands (so no, we are not wealthy and it is a struggle for us, so please do not think we are wealthy or anything). I then applied to Fordham EA because I liked it a lot also, just a tad bit less than GW. I got into both schools. However, if you read the fine print on my ED agreement to GW, it can be terminated if I can prove I cannot financially afford college. So while I was then nearly 100% sure on attending GW, I still did not want to make that decision final until I received my financial package. If I did not get even close to what sites like FASFA say would be an average amount of aid, I would greatly reconsider. That is why I kept a small chance of attending Fordham, to see what scholarships, if any, or aid, I would receive from them. Now to end this up, I did receive my financial aid package today in the mail from GW. It was very reasonable and acceptable. So, I have already sent very nice letters to my other colleges I had been accepted from including Fordham, where I told them that Fordham is a wonderful school and thanked them for their decision, but that I would like to help free up space for other students. So I am going to GW 100% now. Also, most colleges even say, GW included, that finances should not hold you back from applying ED. Because 9 out of 10 you will receive enough to get a reasonable financial package. I was not cheating the system. I was merely following the rules of my ED agreement which states to back out of the agreement if I am unable to pay. However, let it also be clear, that option to back out was a very small option and would be used as last resort. Also, this was also all advice from my counselor. So I just wanted to clarify all that so that we can have this all straightened out. I wish everyone the best of luck whether it be you yourselves in college or one of your children!</p>
<p>Dont apologize Pat. You have nothing to apologize for. Your situation and dilemma are very common. Everyone knows that, including Fordham. I wish you the very best at GWU. Its an excellent school. </p>
<p>And I think the others perhaps misunderstood where I was coming from, and that I was merely defending your right to come on here and discuss your situation, make inquiries and do your very best. </p>
<p>Haha. Nothing in Florida either. I'm pretty sure they mail out a little bit late. Most people I've talked to didn't hear until the 22nd or so (even in NY!)</p>