<p>Now, clearly you know who I am...shouldn't I get to know who you are?</p>
<p>haha, ok...
Clue: I'm your facebook friend
Another: I'm the only indian girl i've seen on the MIT Guestbook:)
Good enough?</p>
<p>@meadle24390: good enough. :)</p>
<p>@skichick: my information suggests that it is certainly much easier to get into MIT as a girl than a guy. It is easier to get into MIT as a URM than an ORM (over-represented minority; read: asian, especially chinese). It's easier to get into MIT from a URS (under-represented state) than a normal one. But that's just life, it's AA. All the schools do it, and you can't really blame MIT.</p>
<p>I don't think it's a matter of percentages. I think it's more of a conclusion you find after reading piles of profiles and seeing who got in, who didn't, and why. And it just comes down to the reality that factors students cannot control are often weighed in to the decision, often very heavily. I think it's a shame, because at school like MIT where money and fame and legacy can't get you in the front door, every applicant should be given a chance based purely on what he or she has been able to achieve within their educational context.</p>
<p>Okay, well...I'm going to refrain from discoursing about how stupid and evil AA is (despite how tempting it is...) since it would belong in another topic. But yeah, definitely, it's easier for girls. But again, that's certainly not to say that the ones who get in don't deserve it...</p>
<p>"But yeah, definitely, it's easier for girls. But again, that's certainly not to say that the ones who get in don't deserve it..."</p>
<p>Assuming you are right, then the girls that get in are qualified and deserve to get in. If it is easier for girls to get in they must on average be more qualified in some respect. If they were less qualified they would not deserve to get in.</p>
<p>BTW what is a normal state?</p>
<p>Hmmm....this is an interesting topic, and in some instances, kind of ****es me off (though i might be a bit biased, lol), as it essentially invalidates the 16 years of hard work, focus, determination, etc. that I've put into to "the dream"; i.e., making it into the premiere math and science institution of the THE WORLD (in my family's words, "there's God, ...and then there's MIT":) ) anyway, i realize that there may be some skewing in favor of girls, but
1) this is MIT, and as you said, MithsApprentice, nothing can get you in the door but what they're looking for - which is NOT money, fame, or XX chromosomes. They don't have quotas - they'll take whoever they think can make the most difference in the world.
2) I tend to agree with MasterofBalances - fewer girls may apply, but the ones who do are tough competition, bc they are the ones who really, really want it.
And especially EA, it's tough to get in whether you're a girl or a boy, white or asian, whatever. Ok, I think I've ranted enough:)</p>
<p>@akdaddy: I'm not talking about on average. When people discuss which schools are hardest, they usually think holistically about the class. I just look at the bottom, say, 5% of admits. Because really, that's where the line is drawn between "waitlist" and "accept" and it's what really determines how hard a school is to get into. And quite frankly, the bottom 5% of asian male acceptees and asian female acceptees have quite different portfolios.</p>
<p>The "normal" states I was talking about are ones with lots of competitive applicants so that AA won't really give them an advantage due to their location. This is usually states like CA, TX, NY, NJ, FL, PA, etc...</p>
<p>@meadle: It's easy to speak of "qualified" as a dichotimizing trait that splits the ones who are from the ones who aren't - and that's not how it works at all. Like you've said, it's tough no matter who you are...but I don't think it's fair that "tough" for one category of individuals is a lot more lenient than it is for another category. Again, that's not to say that MIT admits individual who don't deserve it or aren't qualified...but there are many individuals who are even more qualified that get skipped over.</p>
<p>Anyway, MIT has a good class for next year. It'll be lots of fun. :)</p>
<p>The problem is that the line you're drawing between "qualified" and "more qualified" doesn't exist either. It's all about context, and about what a student has done with his or her opportunities, which isn't easily measured from our external standpoint. (Or easily measured, period.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
And quite frankly, the bottom 5% of asian male acceptees and asian female acceptees have quite different portfolios.
[/quote]
Data source?</p>
<p>At any rate, women who are admitted into MIT graduate at a higher rate and with higher GPAs than men admitted into MIT. If women have better outcomes than men, how is it possible to say they're less qualified?</p>
<p>lol, we are picking fights and we haven't even met...
not that i'm saying yes or no to this, but are you implying that the girls of teh bottom 5% are less qualified than the boys? on what are you basing this information - - -
what defines "qualified"?
Because, as we all know, there's more to it than scores.</p>
<p>and yes, if we keep getting into arguments like this, MIT will be fun next year:)</p>
<p>Okay, let's assume that two candidates came from the same background and had the same stats and credentials. In that situation, most colleges admit that they would take the person with the more "under-represented" traits such as race, sex, location, etc. I'm not measuring anything. The issue is putting two identical characters on a scale, and knowing exactly which one would be chosen over the other. That, inherently, is unfair.</p>
<p>To extend the demonstration, let's say that these two individuals were close to equal...but one does slightly better than the other (say, 0.1 difference in GPA, 50 points SAT and everything else the same)...still the URM would be chosen. And what if that gap was increased even more? At what point does this stop?</p>
<p>I'm not saying that the females admitted to MIT are unqualified. To the contrary, I respect every single one of you. I don't care what GPA or statistical percentage you graduate with. The fact that you were accepted to MIT leads me to believe that you're well aware success is hardly measured by statistics and GPA's.</p>
<p>So again, what is unfair about AA is not who is accepted under it, but the philosophy itself. Given identical profiles, the one less represented would be taken. Given profiles with small achievement (or "appeal") gaps, the one less represented would be taken. But where does "small" end? In some cases, the gaps aren't very small at all. <em>Cough</em> Harvard <em>Cough</em></p>
<p>Btw, you read my stats (though I don't believe I've seen yours). I love debating. Especially over nothing. Especially since MIT can only get betterl</p>
<p>
[quote]
At any rate, women who are admitted into MIT graduate at a higher rate and with higher GPAs than men admitted into MIT. If women have better outcomes than men, how is it possible to say they're less qualified?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This statistic is meaningless because we might be comparing apples to oranges. It certainly could be the case that women major disproportionately in easier (higher-GPA) subjects and that is all that accounts for the difference. I don't believe it's true, but it could be. I would love to see data comparing men and women in the same major, or, best of all, in the same courses.</p>
<p>You know, rumor is, at MIT guys and girls do actually manage to get along. -.-</p>
<p>I doubt there are many people who have a problem with the final admitted class. Some people perhaps have a problem with how it comes to be.</p>
<p>Decision: Accepted</p>
<p>Stats:
ACT: 32
SAT IIs: 800 Math II, 800 Physics
GPA: High School Classes 4.0/4.0, College classes 3.96/4.0
Rank: 1/1 (Homeschooled)
AP/IB scores: No AP/IB's
AMC12/AIME/USAMO: none, but took Putnam a couple of weeks ago.
Research: Published math research, and physics research
Courseload: Currently taking (Fall): Math 414 – Topology, Math 497– Undergraduate Research, Physics 380 – Methods Experimental Physics and Modern Physics, Chem 110 – Intro to Chemistry, Chem 110L – Intro to Chemistry Lab, Honors English Literature. (Spring): Math 407 – Abstract Algebra, Math 430 – Number Theory, Math 497– Undergraduate Research II, Physics 315 – Computational Physics, Government & Economics, Instrumental Music
Other stats: 50+ university/college classes</p>
<p>Subjective:
Essays: 1. A funny story about working in a physics lab. 2. A fencing tournament where I met my older brother in the semi-finals and lost to him by 1 point. Box: Answer to Math Magazine published question.
Recommendations: Math-great (One of top few in career)
English-good. Counselor-Explained why we homeschool
Hook (if any): Accepted letter said something like- Unusual education that paid off.</p>
<p>Location/Person:
State or Country: CA
School Type: Homeschool, Public H.S., College, and University
Ethnicity: White
Gender: Male
Major strength/weakness: Strength: Math and Physics, Weakness: Spelling-probably</p>
<p>Other Factors:
Extracurriculars listed on app: Math Research at CSU, Physics Research at CSU, PROMYS, Math tutor at CSU, NCUR, SCCUR etc.
Summer Activities: Same as above
Why I think I was accepted/deferred: I think my app showed that my life totally revolves around math and science.
What's your favourite flavor of pie? chocolate silk
Other thoughts: Can't wait for this year to end.</p>
<p>(This is going to be convoluted.) One of the last times we had the "men are awesome and women are not" argument (:P), I found a news story online which indicted that a study had been done which indicated that, even within the same major, women had higher GPAs and graduated at higher rates than men at MIT.</p>
<p>I have no evidence regarding the veracity of that claim, nor can I tell you where the website is now. (Nor do I feel like digging up that thread.)</p>
<p>I also have no anecdotal evidence (a somewhat unusual situation for me :)), because I haven't often been in conversations where people revealed their GPAs.</p>
<p>Oops-no box essay-sorry</p>
<p>"I found a news story online which indicted that a study had been done which indicated that, even within the same major, women had higher GPAs and graduated at higher rates than men at MIT."</p>
<p>I'm feeling cantankerous, Molly, so I must ask you, since when do people at MIT consider GPA and other standard academic measures reliable indicators of accomplishment? MIT deferred a lot of high school students with great grades and test scores because today's prevailing wisdom is that it requires a subjective "holistic" assessment to identify good students. Personally, I am a big believer in "grades" as a reliable proxy for drive, responsibility and mastery of subject material. However, I find it easy to imagine that at a research-heavy school like MIT, hands-on creative lab rats might well underperform in the classroom relative to book-worms due to different use of their time. I agree with Ben G; this question, like most others, requires careful study of reliable data. Not to mention, a consistent definition of what makes for "success".</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, I find it easy to imagine that at a research-heavy school like MIT, hands-on creative lab rats might well underperform in the classroom relative to book-worms due to different use of their time.
[/quote]
I would tend to strongly agree with that, if only for personal reasons. :) I'm one of those "can't study for the test, I have a big experiment to run" types.</p>
<p>I think the GPA and graduation rate numbers are useful only as a very broad measure of success, but they're the only measures we have. And I'm absolutely not willing to live and die by the small amount of data we have available -- I think it's enough to say "once at MIT, women and men do about the same," but I doubt any small difference one way or another could be reliably detected (or that it would reliably mean anything).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Essays: 1. A funny story about working in a physics lab. 2. A fencing tournament where I met my older brother in the semi-finals and lost to him by 1 point.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How'd you manage to use the same essays for Caltech and MIT? I thought the prompts made it rather difficult to do that. Or maybe your research was such a strong hook you were auto-accepted. :)</p>
<p>Yah, I couldn't get away with just one essay. I think I probably wrote about 15 essays for my apps and scholarship apps. The second essays were almost completely different. They just both happened to be about a fencing tournament. One was about the how I started fencing, and how I came up against by brother in a tournament. The other focused more on the emotions of the bout.</p>
<p>Decision: Accepted</p>
<p>Stats:
ACT: 32
SAT: 760M 700R 720W
SAT IIs: 800 Math II, 730 Physics
GPA: 4.0 unweighted
Rank: 1/347
AP/IB scores: AP US History -- 3, AP Stats -- 4
AMC12/AIME/USAMO: 100/3/NA
Research: None
Courseload:
--Wind Ensemble
--Engineering
--3D Solid Modeling
--College Writing
--Speech Team
--Intro to Microelectronics
--Calculus BC</p>
<p>Other stats: </p>
<p>Subjective:
Essays:<br>
1. Wrote about how I live in the country and work outside a lot.
2. Wrote about engineering and building a ballista with a friend.
3. Wrote about perfect attendance and why I did it.</p>
<p>Recommendations:
--Math- Teacher said he wanted to be the one that got me into MIT
--English- Very good, teacher seemed very complimentary.
--Counselor-Apparently good, had a 30 minute meeting with her and then she wrote my rec, didn't know her beforehand.<br>
--Hook (if any): Perfect Attendance since kindergarten</p>
<p>Location/Person:
State or Country: OR
School Type: Public H.S.
Ethnicity: White
Gender: Male
Major strength/weakness:
--Strength: Math, clarinet, writing
--Weakness: Analyzing literature, history</p>
<p>Other Factors:
Extracurriculars listed on app: Marching band section leader, music in general, STARS (students today aren't ready for sex) teen leader, Speech Team
Summer Activities: worked at a carousel, work outside (physical labor)
Why I think I was accepted/deferred: I tried to show that being good at math is just the first step, having a life and implementing ideas and concepts is just as important.<br>
What's your favourite flavor of pie? mmmm, pie
Other thoughts: Looking for a group of '11s to get together with and start a hacking organization.</p>
<p>People with awesome stats and didn't get in, could it be because you didn't do an interview?</p>