<p>I don't think that's the intent of his comments. It was more along the lines of, if you have the choice between taking an easier course and a much harder course, both teaching the same basic material, why suffer if you don't necessarily need to or want to? Some people chose harder classes in material they're interested in, but in classes they may not be interested in or struggle with, it's perfectly acceptable to tone it down when you can.</p>
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I don't think that's the intent of his comments. It was more along the lines of, if you have the choice between taking an easier course and a much harder course, both teaching the same basic material, why suffer if you don't necessarily need to or want to? Some people chose harder classes in material they're interested in, but in classes they may not be interested in or struggle with, it's perfectly acceptable to tone it down when you can.
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<p>You just contradicted yourself there. Obviously, a harder class would contain more in-depth material and some people are interested in learning as much as they can in college to stretch their minds. They are not in college to simply earn credits or boost their GPA. </p>
<p>But since Cav is your "kind of man", it's understandable.</p>
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As some are saying, sometimes people take classes to learn, and not just to make a lot of money when they graduate. Unlike you cav, there are people that care about more than money. Some of these strange people actually like learning... for the sake of knowledge... who woulda thunk it...
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<p>LOL you've missed what I was trying to say and what my motivations are.</p>
<p>No, my point was that if you totally suck at Calculus and know you won't do well even from the beginning, why should you put yourself through 131 when you can take 121 and have a higher chance of learning the material, rather than taking 131, not learning and failing?</p>
<p>And, you're talking to the engineer. I elected to have a major that will stretch my mind beyond belief. I took a physics course this past summer, 4-credits, that will count nothing towards my major beyond "unrestricted electives" that I already fulfilled in high school through AP liberal arts classes that do nothing towards my major (I've known for a loong time I wanted to do engineering, too). I've totally skipped any intro politics classes and are only taking 300/400 level classes, with instructor permission (well, AP credit for US/Comp gov't). I'm all for stretching the mind. But I also see no point to reducing oneself to nothing if they have a subject that they really can't grasp and they take the upper level course because they should not care about their GPA, only doing the most in-depth work that they can.<br>
And for pre-meds, they'll probably never use calculus beyond physics, and even physics you can get by without much calculus knowledge (after 2 years of physics in HS, three semesters in college, I know). Why the heck should they risk their med school/future schooling over a stupid calc class? They should, and probably will, go very in-depth into bio or chem. You can't dig deep in every subject.</p>
<p>If Calc 131 is too hard, might medical school be too hard as well? Maybe taking more rigorous coursework will better prepare you for the difficulty of becoming a doctor...just a thought.</p>
<p>I agree. But look at what med school teaches: mostly bio/chem/sciences. Very little calculus is involved in medical fields, and when it is, it is stuff that is going to be taught in 121. I think taking harder bio/chem/science classes would better prepare one for med school/practicing. Math and sciences are always lumped into one, but they're very, very different. Math isn't necessarily memorizing stuff, but understanding theories and just practicing it so it becomes ingrained into your brain. Natural sciences, on the other hand, not only has theories, and concepts to practice, but there is a large amount of knowledge you just have to memorize and know.<br>
And I didn't say Calc 131 is/isn't hard. But a pre-med student has the aim of continuing school and education for pretty much their lifetime. One calc class at a slower pace is not going to kill them, especially since they're going to have to take a second class of it, and it's not especially useful in the medical field. My roommate was terribly at Calc, made a B+ barely in 121, but soared through OChem, bio, and chem so far. Do I doubt her potential medical skills, or her ability to tackle difficult classes, because she took 121? Never.
Also, engineers frequently fill their electives with easy classes to boost their GPA a bit, but this is in order to getting a better job. That better job doesn't mean more money, either. Instead, you could be placed at a position that would be more rewarding intellectually to you (so you're not bored stiff doing grunt work), or it could even mean getting an engineering job instead of settling for a computing job that doesn't even use your major because you were able to cross that magic GPA hump.</p>
<p>Now, if you're good at calc and just want to take 121 to get that easy A and have no interest in learning something or applying yourself, that's dumb. But it's not the end of the world if you chose to take one or two fluff classes you're semi-interested in either.</p>
<p>Math 121 is more oriented towards applications, which is useful for engineers, but this doesn't mean they shouldn't take Math 131. I know plenty of e-schoolers who take the 131/132/231 sequence either through APMA or MATH. They are willing to take it because they're motivated and are genuinely interested in the rigors of math. What is wrong with that? If you do well in those classes, it will be seen as a plus by graduate programs anyway. You don't have a "higher chance of learning the material" by taking 121 versus 131. In fact, there is more material covered in 131 than 121, so it is up to how willing you are to learn the material yourself.</p>
<p>There's nothing wrong with that. I'd take the higher math too, in a heartbeat.
And, if you suck at math, you do have higher chance of learning the covered material in 121, because there's less over the same amount of time. Some people are just god-awful at Calc, and might be in a program that they don't need math (pre-med I think, is the only case, because most others would take harder stat/etc). If they don't need the extra material, who cares. They shouldn't be forced to fail.<br>
We're kind of arguing the same thing, just down to details/examples. I agree with your points, totally, 110%. But I also think that not everyone should constantly be stressing themselves out and taking a million hard courses "because they should". There's more to learning in college than just in the classroom. But, students should apply themselves and make something of themselves, and their spot at the school.</p>
<p>Does anyone know anything about Grisham for chem 141? I tried to get into Gerrans class but it is full so I am taking it with Grisham mwf 12-1250. </p>
<p>Also, how is the psyc 101 class with Nosek?</p>
<p>Yeah, you're missing out by not taking it with Gerrans. Grisham is alright from what I've heard but stay away from Metcalf. Nosek is fine. If you don't already know, check out ratemyprofessors.com and thecourseforum.com for info on classes and teachers.</p>
<p>meh, I know cav's point. Its true that if you have no interest in math you don't have much of a reason to take the harder course aside from scheduling. I like the way shoebox put it.</p>
<p>Also, a couple fun, easy fluff classes are always a good idea. They can really break the monotony especially for science and engineering majors. Then again, I have a habit of doing poorly in classes I am uninterested in because I just stop caring, so make sure you don't get bored such that you forget to do the ONE paper for the whole semester or something, LOL.</p>
<p>I agree. Engineers routinely take MSE201 because it's the one "easy" engineering class. I took it, and while it sounded interesting, I don't think I would've taken it had I not known it was easy.
The biggest thing in college is gaining knowledge in a field that interests you, exploring others when you can, and being successful at it all. You can't graduate without taking in-depth courses, they're required by majors. But, skipping a hard class you're not interested will most likely make you more successful. I don't think anyone at UVA is aiming to take all easy classes either, I think they'd just get utterly bored (see ehiunno's post..I agree, totally)</p>
<p>i'll get involved in this scuffle next semester when i have a better idea of classes. :) the only thing I want to say is, in general, take the classes you're interested in. Don't take a class simply because a friend is taking it or it's an easy A. If you have no interest whatsoever in what your learning, an easy A can turn into an unexpected B or C, especially if you have no interest AND have low expectations. Also, the degree of difficulty of a class depends on the person taking it. Just because someone said it wasn't too bad, doesn't mean that it wont be too bad for you. It could turn out to be hard as dung or easy as pie. Different people=different perspectives. Just a general note.</p>
<p>for now, i'm going to go back to the topic but i think most know my schedule.
BIO 203 Lab
CHEM 181
+ Lab
HIND 101 (hindi)
PLCP 212
PSYC 220</p>
<p>Yayyyy there's now space in CHEM 181. I dropped Chem 141, added CS 101e, and though current Chem 181 lab sections are all full, I emailed Dean Harman and he promised me that he will find me space in a lab section, since the department is expanding the lab sizes from 20 to 22 each anyway. </p>
<p>Well, the current problem now is that when I add Chem 181L, I'm going to have an over-the-limit credit problem. Should I drop one of my courses? How difficult is CS 101e anyway? Does it require a lot of homework, and time? </p>
<p>Also, what is this "Chem Principles Prob Rec"? There are like 18 people enrolled in two sections, and one section has like one person in it. Is it compulsory?</p>
<p>Taking: </p>
<p>ASTR 211 (General Astronomy I)
BIO 317 (Introduction to Neuroscience)
CS 101e (Introduction to Computer Science)
FREN 334 (Advanced Oral and Written French)
Chem 181 (Chemical Principles)
++ awaiting a lab section</p>
<p>Looking at possible exchanges that are currently full are conflicting with my current courses (if I'm not dropping a course): </p>
<p>(Honors) Calc III
Bio 301
LNGS 325
Principles of Physics III</p>
<p>CS101 and CS101e's exact curriculum (they share assignments, tests, etc) for this year is yet to be determined. Prior to last year, CS101 was a joke... Last year they stole Princeton's curriculum and it was an outrageous amount of work for a 3 credit class (biweekly quizzes, groupwork, huge programming assignments; plus a required no-credit lab and 3 hours of lecture... kind of ridiculous for only 3 credits and an intro course), but they're looking to remove a bit of that this year.</p>
<p>Your schedule seems a bit stacked, especially if you're going to be over credit limits. I mean, you're taking 3 solid science classes, a CS class, and a 300-level language class... That's REALLY science stacked and a lot of work. If you're going to take a Chem lab too, you should definitely drop something. Is astronomy required for something? Remember, you have 8 semesters, you'll get to take everything eventually.</p>
<p>I may drop astronomy. I was looking for something to use my AP Physics credit for, to make sure I was constantly exercising that curriculum, since I was this close to failing the AP Physics exams. Will many of the classes in a sequence beginning this semester still be offered next semester?</p>
<p>I'd actually happily delay astronomy if there's any way to keep using the math involved in AP Physics in my other science courses. Yeah I know someone (I think Shoebox?) said that (IIRC at least at the introductory level) chemistry and physics don't overlap very much, but if there was any way to keep using the math in my other science courses, I'd like that a lot. </p>
<p>Actually, I wouldn't mind not taking math for a semester if there was a way to keep practicing outside the classroom. Are student tutoring / group-study sessions wayyy more helpful at keeping material fresh in your mind than say, Wolfram Online or Wikipedia? Cuz what I'm worried is that I'll say, "I'll revise my math this year," and then not do much that year.</p>
<p>okay I would like to check with the experts once more before deciding on my final schedule. I am a first semester Echols and have NO IDEA what I will major in. Seriously, no clue.</p>
<p>USEM Genetics 3 credits
MATH 231 Calculus III Honors 4 credits
SPANISH 330 Literary Analysis 3 credits
ELEM FRENCH 101 4 credits
Cross training 1 credit </p>
<p>So there it is...too light?</p>
<p>You can view past CODs to see when classes have been offered in past years. </p>
<p>Why do you need to keep your AP physics math active?</p>
<p>I took linear algebra before coming in to UVA but didn't get credit for it so I was CONVINCED that I would forget it all if I didn't take it first semester but I'm just now taking it (my 5th semester!) and I don't have any worries anymore. You'd be surprised what ends up mattering a few semesters later than what you are completely sure about in high school.</p>
<p>don't listen to hazelorb, galoisien. Shes a wuss :p. You remind me of myself, and I think you will be able to handle that course load fine as long as you pay attention to when the drop deadline is just in case.</p>
<p>also wolfram and wikipedia are the two most accurate and thorough math resources on the web, just make sure to cross reference wiki with wolfram because you never know... lol.</p>
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just make sure to cross reference wiki with wolfram because you never know... lol.
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<p>Haha, I sysop Wikipedia. Usually any false scientific/math statements get noticed quickly and are fixed. It's the less empirical articles that are more likely to suffer problems but if they do they often have dispute/cleanup tags on them.</p>
<p>But two heartbreaks:</p>
<p>PHYS 251 is only offered once a year, and it means I must take Calc III in conjunction. (EIGHT CREDITS!) </p>
<p>LNGS 325 is only offered once a year too. But I've been DYING to get into higher linguistic theory! </p>
<p>Chem 181 sounds so interesting, and Dean Harman is so enchanting (at least by email).</p>
<p>So, I am contemplating this schedule:</p>
<p>PHYS 251 (4)
Math 231H (4)
Chem 181 (3)
+ a lab (3) </p>
<p>This leaves me with 14 credits. WITH JUST TWO SUBJECTS(!) [Okay, three, but Calc III and Phys 251 go hand in hand like lectures and labs.]</p>
<p>Assuming I don't want to top it off with a first year seminar or phys ed or something, I will now have a 3 credit space without having to do any special action:</p>
<p>LNGS 325 or FREN 334? Zomg, I don't want to stop taking French for even a semester! That'll set me back a year! (An L2 language is like a treadmill...)</p>
<p>And this means postponing any Biology courses (301 or 317) till at least next spring. And I assume BIOL 301 isn't offered in the spring? But I think Intro to Neuroscience should be?</p>