Oh gosh, what a decision!!!

Parents Forum
41

<p>Salem - You certainly should be proud of your D.</p>

<p>"straight As her entire life, very high SAT scores and AP scores ..... Socially conscience, politically interested, very bright future."</p>

<p>She certainly sounds like a candidate for a top university. Let's see:
UNCH - #5 ranked among public universities NATIONALLY.
Campbell U - #34 ranked among Masters universities in the SOUTH.</p>

<p>The 34th ranked Masters universities in the West, Midwest and North regions (USNWR) are the College of Sante Fe, Washburn University and Kings College, respectively. Would any of these be appealing to your D?</p>

42

<p>Others have mentioned visiting campus over and over. Make sure the visit includes an overnight and attending classes at both schools. Both of my sons chose the more competitive schools after experiencing the difference in academics between what they thought was their first choice and a much more competitive school. </p>

<p>Review the course requirements from each school. From the Campbell website.</p>

<p>IV. Satisfy the Campbell University Worship (CUW) attendance requirement.</p>

<p>Campbell University Worship reflects the Christian mission and purpose of Campbell University by offering the opportunity for students to engage in Christian worship, theological reflection, and community-building experiences.</p>

<p>Attendance requirements for CUW are as follows:</p>

<pre><code>Students entering as freshmen will attend for four semesters (CUW 100 during the first two semesters and two additional semesters of CUW 200)
</code></pre>

43

<p>I know you are proud. This is a hard time and stressful time for both parents an dstudents. I would encourage my D to go to the Public University unless she gets scholarships from the private for undergrad and fork up the bucks for grad school to help her come on on the other end debt free or at least lower debt. Grad schools have far less funds available, tuition is higher, books are higher etc. If she is considering med school then......you have a long haul to consider. UNC is a great school so there are good choices to be had! Whether to spend an extra $60k to me is not a decision I would leave to a 17-18 year old. If things were equal it would be a different story. Dont let the scholarship be too big of a disappointment...there are many scholarships at UNC that still may be offered.</p>

44

<p>As a NC parent whose D1 hands-down chose UMD over UNC-CH (much to the disagreement of many cc'ers), I know that CH isn't for everyone. (D2 is vehemently opposed to going there, as well :( ...) Dad was promising downright bribes for D1 to go to UNC-CH (buying her a car if she went there!!), but in the end, she made the decision that was the best for her, and she couldn't be happier with her choice. (even after comparing notes with several kids from her grad. class over Christmas break). </p>

<p>I agree with all that your daughter needs to go and FEEL what the universities are like ... including maybe a Thursday night overstay (since Thurs usually starts the weekends in terms of activities...) and really look at the stuff that isn't quite so evident on tours. I think it's fair to say that, in her two options, UNC-CH will be significantly more of a party school than Campbell. She cannot underestimate how much basketball is a part of life at UNC, either. Good luck to you.</p>

<p>BTW, she should attend the scholarship day events at UNC-CH...if nothing else, it's incredible to be with a group of students (and their parents) who have that much talent.....and everyone there is considering somewhere else (in lots of cases, the Ivys, etc.). However, for in-state students, other than the Moorehead and the Robertson, there are no full-ride scholarships. OOS students will get full-rides, but in-state students can't (look up the details). I couldn't for the life of me figure that out last year, but it made it a bit easier to take up Univ of Maryland and their merit scholarship offer to her, after she got a less-than-stellar scholarship offer from UNC-CH. Good luck to you, and follow your/her gut feelings.</p>

45

<p>astrophysicsmom: I hate to say it, but UMD, College Park is #14 on the list of top 20 party schools (2008 Princeton Review). ;)</p>

<p>Certainly, there's no doubt that "UNC will be more of a party school than Campbell." Then again, just about every school in the U.S. would be, except for other similarly religious schools (like Campbell).</p>

<p>While basketball is a big part of life at UNC, I can truly say it's certainly a positive part. Having a top basketball team, like "Roy's boys," truly does offer up some amazing school spirit, adds a certain electricity to an already energetic campus, and tends to create a real bond among students. Having been there myself, I cannot imagine attending a school that didn't have that. Even if you're not into sports, it's a wonderful experience to watch a team like UNC's play a team like Duke. It's really pretty exciting and fun.</p>

<p>While you are correct that there are no full-ride scholarships, except for the Morehead and the Robertson (for in-state students), Carolina Scholars is also available to instate students, which covers half of the cost of attendance for an in-state student, which would leave about $7500 in total costs per year. Isn't Carolina Scholars what your daughter was awarded? Maybe I have you mixed up with somebody else; I hope so. Certainly, most people would never view Carolina Scholars as a "less than stellar scholarship offer." Ouch. </p>

<p>There are many other additional scholarships as well, ranging from $2500 to $7500 per year. That can make a real dent, considering the total yearly costs for an instate student are only ~$15,000. I believe salem said her daughter is a NMF; if so, she would receive from $1,000-2,000 per year at UNC for that. In addition, UNC's financial aid is excellent. And UNC-CH was ranked top, once again, in Kiplinger's "best value" list.</p>

<p>I think that Faline makes some excellent points. I will also add, too, that with the exception of some large intro courses, the majority of classes at Chapel Hill are actually not very large at all. This is especially true in honors courses, but most others--once past the large intro/required courses for some majors-- are relatively small. Students definitely get to know their professors-- even as freshmen. </p>

<p>Chapel Hill can be as small (or as large) as a student wants to make it; on the other hand, it is much more difficult to make a small school seem large. </p>

<p>salem: Again, I would get her to do some overnights, but I would strongly encourage her to look at all the advantages UNC can offer her that Campbell would/could not. A lot of students may not know what they want to do as high school seniors, but by the time they're juniors, they're going to be thinking about jobs or graduate school. UNC has top recruiters who visit, and those students do go on to excellent graduate/professional schools, too. I doubt Campbell can match any of that.</p>

<p>Anyway, all the best. Feel free to pm me if you have specific questions; happy to help.</p>

46

<p>I cant tell you how much this thread resonates with me.D ALMOST applied to UNC but she had to trim the list and selectivity and cost for OOS bumped it off . Instead she is considering UCLA (if she's lucky enough to get in ) vs. small, expensive LAC's, and most of her classmates are going to small Christian schools (including a boy with a 2360 SAT going to Liberty !), I think D knows we wouldn't support that so she hasn't asked, but she has applied to Santa Clara and Pepperdine. Not the same choice, but it still means the possibility of turning down a highly regarded, inexpensive but " secular" school.</p>

47

<p>I don't have a feel for either of these schools, so am just making some generalizations about student life, if they help at all.</p>

<p>Other posters illuminate a difference between these 2 schools as public/large/secular versus private/small/religious. In my experience, students who would have even considered a religious college might ALSO have the focus and vision to craft a more sober lifestyle EVEN at a larger party school. In other words, she might actually have the confidence to go where there's a party reputation but find her own way around things. She doesn't have to be ruled by what most others do. If there's a church organization at UNC, and activities that aren't so party-hearty-loud, she could really find some friends on her own terms.</p>

<p>My kids are somewhat religious but went to schools with boisterous reputations. They interact pleasantly with all of that, but really find their own path and aren't ruled by the dominant party cultures. They're not judgmental, cold, or isolated, but they just busy themselves with activities and wave to all the parties. This is obviously an argument that she could do fine at UNC, if she has the inner vision and resouces to think for herself.</p>

<p>If she might head to medical school, isn't that the one grad school where borrowing isn't the terrible problem...since the path is clearly for a lucrative profession that will pay back the loans? If my kids would only want to be doctors, I'd be glad because I'd assume the loans would pay themselves back by the time they are 40 anyway. I know it's a huge sum, and there is malpractice insurance and all of that...but still I believe the doctor's tuition is one of the safest bets in the land. They'll work at a high wage and it will all be paid back. You can't say this as readily about any of the arts, humanities or even engineering these days. Teach your D (and yourself) to think of that particular grad school as an investment with good payback, and not just a pricetag. All the doctors I know are doing splendidly, financially. It takes a decade or so, but they're flourishing and the last thing they worry about is their old tuition bills. They have a system to match them up for internships and residencies; who else has such a well-oiled and reliable pathway? </p>

<p>She sounds like someone who needs you to exude confidence on her behalf. Some kids just need to be told, "you can do this.." How she related to a summer away at age l6 is really something to stop talking about, IMHO. Don't undercut her confidence by looking back. I know you are taking her known experience into consideration, and that's a loving thing to do. BUt maybe this is the time to give her the longview, forward, and don't dwell on age 16. That's going to be so irrelevant so soon, you and she won't believe it.</p>

<p>I think if it were me, I'd be doing the rah-rah dance for UNC rather than envelop her in the small safe place. I think several visits to each might build her confidence in her choice, a lot. Perhaps pick comparables: go to a play on both campuses; review the course catalogue in the same department on both campuses (count courses, professors...and realize the raw numbers of choices). Go to chapel at both schools, since that'll obviously be a factor for her. (BTW, if she's indifferent to religion and assumes that required chapel is a non-issue, I'm not so sure. One thing college students enjoy is doing what they LIKE. If she likes chapel, great, but if she doesn't and has to sit through it, well that's quite different). </p>

<p>Honestly, tell her that "wanting her car on campus" is about the worst reason I've ever heard for making such a longterm life decision. She has the rest of her life to drive her car!!</p>

<p>Final shot: sometimes parents here size things up and say, "which way would it be harder to transfer, if you didn't like one?" If she dislikes UNC intensely, could she go to the other by sophomore year? Would the transfer route be harder in the other direction? Hopefully she'll like her choice, but this is just a way of clarifying a decision.</p>

48

<p>I have to second (third? fourth?) the idea of attending classes on both campuses. As many as she can. What my d discovered at one school that gave her very nice merit money is that she wasn't challenged by the classes or by the students' attitude. She felt like she had gone from an AP environment to a standard (not even honors) one. But it took the overnight and the class visits to prove it to her. She's now at the more expensive, but academically better, school and is very happy there. (Of course, we decided that money wouldn't rule the decision, but that is a very personal, family by family decision.)</p>

<p>If you haven't discussed the financial impact of the decisions, you should do so NOW. "This is what we have. This is what we can give you. etc."</p>

49

<p>Salem,
You mentioned that these are the first two schools to which she has been accepted. Any other schools still pending?</p>

<p>Based on what you've said about your D's scores, those put her in the top 2-3% of the applicant pool at Campbell (per College Board Academic Tracker). I would be concerned about finding academic peers, esp. since she qualified for a highly ranked, tough-to-get-into science/math program in HS. What is Campbell's placement like for med school? I have seen a lot of school sthat tout what %age of their students get into med school. Might be something to check out. UNC-CH is not that far from home; she's going to be 18, not 16. Read course catalogs. They are mind-opening!</p>

<p>UNC-CH is an excellent school, and there will be plenty of kids there who are not into the partying scene and who are serious about their faith. (I went to UGA -- Party Central -- and it was not hard to find like-minded folks of whatever religious stripe.)</p>

<p>What my S was looking for in colleges two years ago bears little resemblance to what he's seeking now. He has changed and matured so much in that time! A useful exercise might be to have your D visualize where she wants to be five years from now and what kinds of things will help her achieve that goal. Don't associate these traits or qualities with one school or another -- just focus on how she wants to live her life.</p>

50

<p>Ah, Salem, I understand more now. Does she have any other apps pending?
Have you read the threads on med school admissions? It can be very difficult to know what is the best choice for an 18 year old considering med school. For many the best choice is to go the college of their choice, do well in a non-science major, then begin pre-med classes toward the end of the 4 years, or even as a post-bac. Of course, this means financing 5+ years of college, then med school. Others thrive at the big university from day one, others do better at a less selective school where they are a star at the school. Then there is the whole issue of what if I decide halfway through college I don't want med school - what will give me the most opportunities going forward. Countingdown's advice about visualizing her future and goal setting is well taken, even if her goals change.</p>

<p>I think the bigger question is her tentativeness and desire to stay clase to home. Is she extremely worried that she will have a recurrence of the bad homesickness? Does she know anyone going to CH? Sometimes kids have to take the steps that THEY are ready for - that'll get lost here on CC, where so many of the kids are very ready to spread their wings, and often have already been far from home. You (Mom and Dad) are the people to help her sort through those feelings, we outsiders on an internet board can't judge that.</p>

51

<p>Sweetie, please go to the better, cheaper college for one year. If you hate it, you can transfer.<br>
(and if she then hates Campbell, it will be far easier for her to transfer back--right?).</p>

52

<p>At one point I would have discounted the homesickness but after observing a few students who have had some severe anxiety I have changed my mind.
I have a good friend who has taken alot of flack for her D's choice. She applied to 1 school two hours from home. She has agreed to trying it for one year with the understanding that her Mom will drive down one day a week for lunch. At first we gave her a hard time but she knows her D. She can not be pushed to do something she does not want to do. This may sound like enabling a bad behavior but from where this family has come this is a huge step.
I also have had several friends whose kids decided to attend Christian Schools when they had choices much higher ranked. Being in school and living with students who share their beliefs has been wonderful for them. I think for several of them it has had an effect on the job search. My good friend whose son turned down UCLA for Gordon College came home wanting to be a missionary. He is doing some work in churches but is making a living working construction. He has no regrets. Just married at age 23. Bride 22.
While if it was my kid I would be pushing the higher ranked school regardless of money. I also would have an issue with my child attending a religious school but for some people it is the right decision.</p>

53

<p>If she's really interested in medschool part of your breakdown should be how the sciences are set up at each school. The core classes for premed should have a reasonable student to professor ratio. Class size like it or not, is going to be an issue. Who teaches the classes(professor vs. TA) is going to be an issue. One thing to keep in mind also is not how many premeds get in from a school, but how many don't. Why? the numbers combined should tell you how crowded the place is. How many kids are competing for professor time and what kind of help are they getting.</p>

54

<p>Just read this thread. Sigh- wish sons would get the grades D's do. But that is ancient history as son is thriving at a public U comparable to UNC. Why should your D have a car on campus, is it to escape and return home every weekend? That does not speak well of the weekend campus life. Large public institutions accomodate the religious as well as the secular, so if that is important I'm sure she will find many like-minded students. I know a UW philosophy/religious studies major who loves UW and who will be going to a Lutheran Seminary after graduation- yes, from a campus known for its secular nature! State U's reflect the regional demographics, I'm sure the campus will have plenty of students with her religious views. The LAC that emphasizes religion over academics may not give your D the academic peer group she needs.</p>

<p>As a physician I would emphasize going to the strongest academic institution- it does make a difference to medical admissions committees. Don't worry about "weed-out" classes, she should be able to handle the toughest ones and would probably learn more as well as how to handle rigorous courses such as those in medical school. Another factor- she may change her major/career aspirations within the sciences - do the small school's science offerings cater to the premed crowd, or to people truly interested in the majors? She would get to know professors at the large school and be able to use them for recommendations or to help her define her career goals. Going to a small LAC with a large percentage of premed students getting into medical school does not guarantee success in that goal. The large public U will broaden her awareness of related fields and allow her to go beyond the core science classes.</p>

<p>Definitely revisit each campus, paying attention to the ways your D can get the academics and lifestyle she is comfortable with. Ask her if not having a car at the small college would change her mind. Good luck.</p>

55

<p>A very good friend of mine had a D who was offered a full athletic scholarship to attend Northwestern. His D visited NW, but didn't like the area. She wanted to go to Col. in Boulder because she wanted to ski. He had to pay OFS tuition for her to attend Col. I couldn't believe it when he told me about it and that I would have said she'll learn to love NW. His position was that if they're not invested in the choice they won't do as well. I'm not so sure about that. She did well at Col. but would probably have done well at NW too.</p>

56

<p>Salem-</p>

<p>I remember your posts a year and a half or so about your daughter and NCSSM. I was one of the posters who responded to her application and possible attendance. My son had been in the same position the year before with NCSSM and I relayed his experience and decisions regarding NCSSM, his local high school and how all that played into where he later applied, was accepted to and finally attends college.</p>

<p>He too attended a rural public hs here in NC and saw the value of NCSSM but opted for his local public for numerous reasons. As far as college apps he too applied in-state and OOS. Similar options as your daughter for in-state, but in the scope of comparisons slightly different. </p>

<p>Was accepted to UNC-CH (same as your d) and Duke (in lieu of Campbell). He too has med school as a possible grad destination. Both Duke and UNC have great med schools where he had done research at both in 2 summers so he was well acquainted with his options.</p>

<p>Where else did she apply? And have you visited any of those schools?</p>

<p>He did as other posters have suggested 1) visited 2) compiled a list of academic opportunities 3) cost and thrown in last 4) intangible opportunities that I nor he might not have envisioned due to our family background and history. Number 4 wasn't that important UNTIL he and some siblings actually experienced those intangibles.</p>

<p>Even though he did not end up at UNC (was in the top 4 though) for his undergrad it is one of his top choices for grad school. He opted for an OOS private which was for our family the most financially generous. Even with a decent offer from UNC, his private OOS was much more generous.</p>

<p>Good luck and let us know what some of her other options might be.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

57

<p>Some of the college experience and advantage is about the contacts one makes. If she has any thought of staying in NC to pursue her professional life, UNC-CH would be more advantageous. Campbell may be a very good school, but it does not have the national and international reputation of Chapel Hill. She will rise to the level of her colleagues and the competition, and CH has the cream of the crop, state-wide and nationally. Good luck to her! Lorelei</p>

58

<p>Lorelei's comment about rising to the level of the competition got me thinking about something Curm had said (his D turned down some very big-name schools for a full ride at Rhodes). He said it was important for a person to know if he/she needed to have competition to succeed at the level one is capable of doing, or if one has the internal drive to bust down the doors. Curm, if I misinterpreted you, my apologies!</p>

<p>Some of each is a good thing, but it might be helpful for the OP's D to think about what factors have contributed to her success so far, and how/if she might want to change those factors when she goes to college.</p>

59

<p>I haven't read through the entire thread so apologies if these points have already been made or discarded...</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You don't have to make this decision yet. You have time to explore these schools in many ways. Classes, overnights, hang around for a day, visit the towns, ask people who already go there,etc. Give yourself time and info to make a really informed decision.</p></li>
<li><p>How motivated is your D to go there? Willing to work a good amount during the summer to help pay her way? Willing to work at college a few hours to make her own spending money? Willing to apply for outside scholarships? While the $$ difference seems like a lot now, if she gets an outside scholarship or two, works to earn decent $$$ during the summer, you kick in some $$$ and maybe take out some small loans (I don't think a couple of thousand a year is the end of the world...) maybe the difference is closer to reach than you think.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>While I firmly believe that kids can be happy in more than one place, I too have a daughter who mimics yours in terms of hard work. She is a freshman in her 2nd quarter at a smaller private school and I truly cannot imagine a better fit.</p>

60

<p>CountingDown: You make an excellent point, and I agree-- to a degree. ;) Campbell, however, is not Rhodes. So, okay-- I'll just say it. Given what salem has told us, I do believe that Campbell would actually hold her back, academically and otherwise.</p>