Oh...should I being doing that?

<p>I was wondering if any of you parents, feel any anxiety when other parents tell you about the college counselors that they are hiring or have hired and yada yada about how glad they are that they are using so and so, and oh they heard that the schools cc are awful? My husband wouldn't pay for one even if I really thought we needed one- but sometimes when I hear others talking about it- I am left with such a sense of doubt and wonder if we should be doing that!!!???</p>

<p>My husband claims I am our cc (thanks to all the wonderful information and advice I have gleaned here) but still there is that nagging thought "is that the edge that makes the difference?"</p>

<p>...is it just me???</p>

<p>I have that sense sometimes 2by2, but I've learned over the years that the kids will do just fine and not to worry. College is anxiety-producing. It really helped me to read the Malcolm Gladwell article in the New Yorker about the study that compared outcomes between Ivy grads and grads with similar stats who attended state schools. It also really helps to be in a more middle-income school district where most kids go to state schools--really helps cut down on the angst.</p>

<p>We didn't hire a private counselor (2by2, my husband shares your h's viewpoint!). However, I've suggested that several friends contact two independent counselors I've encountered here on CC. I know that not everyone can afford this service - though the counselors I'm thinking of make a great deal of info available for free online. And I imagine they do some individual pro bono work, too. I think hiring a counselor makes a lot of sense in some circumstances:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>when the kid is pursuing an unusually selective major, such as Musical Theater. The path to an MT acceptance is a daunting and confusing one. Yes, some parent/student teams manage it well themselves, but the expertise a counselor can provide might make all the difference to some applicants.</p></li>
<li><p>when the parent/student relationship just won't take the stress and strain of the college search process. Some kids don't want any parental input - which is fine, of course, if the kids will take care of it themselves. Sometimes they just aren't ready to do so. Some parents and kids can't be in the same room for 5 minutes without an ugly fight.</p></li>
<li><p>when the parents' circumstances make it difficult for them to find the time to assist, whether this is because of work demands, health problems, the needs of other family members, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>when the kid has a major academic, health, or possibly legal problem to deal with/explain.</p></li>
<li><p>just because the parent/kid thinks it would help! :)</p></li>
</ul>

<p>There's so much free info available today that most people can achieve a great outcome in the college search process without hiring a counselor. My family is happy with our do-it-yourself results. But counselors are a great resource for many. I know the free advice I've picked up from carolyn and soozievt here on CC (as well as from many amateur counselors, of course!) certainly gave us a boost.</p>

<p>I get free college counseling -- it's called College Confidential!</p>

<p>I only know first-hand one person who has hired a professional, though I hear of others. After spending too much time on here, I actually feel better about my son's chances to get in a good school. He's apparently done some things right all along -- good grades in rigorous courses at a great school, plays sports, has an EC he loves. And he's a URM -- I didnt know what that was until I came on here.</p>

<p>Much of what I see on CC makes me calmer about the whole process because I see people who have no cause to freak out freaking out. Makes me feel rational to not worry.</p>

<p>My neighbor says she paid $150 an hour to a guidance counselor from another school to see her kid for an hour. It seems a little unfair when she is already paying for our own school GC...and you wonder if it is ethical for the GC to be taking paying students from other schools after school. But it is a cheaper option than the $5,000 unlimited counseling option.</p>

<p>We're using an outside GC for an hour and a half for application suggestions just because my daughter pays attention to adults who aren't mom and dad and we want an objective opinion. Her own GC has too many other students to give that much uninterrupted time. As far as filling out the actual app and essays, she's on her own.</p>

<p>2x2, Stick to your guns and hold firm. You do not need to pay an outside counselor. I agree with all that was said above. You really can get all the info you need right here on CC. We went to a counselor to see what he could offer us when DS was applying. Counselor was a nice guy and had lots of great advice and suggestions, but ultimately we decided not to hire him. We just didn't think we needed to. The one benefit we did see which was already mentioned was that a counselor would be a good outside opinion to help your S or D make an independent decision, esp when many kids just don't like to listen to their parents! My wife says I spend so much time here on CC that I should start up my own college counseling business! :)</p>

<p>I see no need for a counselor, provided that the parent and child are generally familiar with the U.S. college admissions system, are willing to do the necessary research, and can work reasonably well together. </p>

<p>A counselor might be worthwhile in instances where the parent and child are the sort who are always at each other's throats, where the parent did not go to college and is unfamiliar with the system, or where the parent grew up in a different country and is unfamiliar with the differences between that country's system and that of the U.S. Unfortunately, in the latter two instances, those families are unlikely to use a counselor's services because of financial issues or because they may not realize that their knowledge is inadequate.</p>

<p>Both of my kids got into their first choice colleges (one a flagship state university, the other a college in the Ivy League that is not one of the three you instantly think when someone says "Ivy League"). There were no college counselors involved. But there was a lot of input from Mom and Dad (especially with regard to meeting deadlines, scheduling visits, deciding which tests to take and when, and other such details), and both kids made realistic choices.</p>

<p>Disclaimer: I am a college counselor. :D</p>

<p>2b2, no, I do not think you SHOULD hire a college counselor. The reason to hire one should not be to give a student an "edge" or be seen as the counselor can get the kid into college. These are not reasons to hire a counselor, in my view. </p>

<p>I think frazzled hit on many reasons why some may desire to get help from an independent college counselor. </p>

<p>I think parents can do this fine on their own if they are resourceful and equip themselves with the knowledge to guide their child through this process. I see numerous parents on CC doing just that (CC's forums themselves are an excellent resource in that way). But for various reasons, some parents are not able to do all that.....whether it is lack of time, knowledge, background, health, other issues, etc. They find it helpful to have someone else who can do all of this with their student. That seems hard to imagine for some CCers because CCers are the type who are doing this themselves, but many out there are not.</p>

<p>Another thing that frazzled brought up is very common and that it some parents find it hard to work with their own kids. There is an emotional component there that an independent counselor doesn't have with the student like the parents do. I can't tell you how many times I have had a parent write me, "thanks for convincing D about that because she listens to you but wouldn't when I told her that very same thing!" An outside perspective who is not emotionally invested can really be helpful when working with teenagers. </p>

<p>Another reason that some hire a counselor is because the admissions process is so overwhelming that they feel less stressed by having someone guide them every step of the way and advise them and be able to answer questions and know what to do. It decreases the stress. Many families will say to me that they feel they could never have gone through this without me. They found the assistance invaluable and helpful and it made the process less overwhelming to have that guidance. </p>

<p>Another reason some may hire a private counselor is that their school counselor has too many students to give this level of individualized attention, and/or has to deal with many other aspects at school besides college admissions. Even those who go to private schools with excellent college counselors still feel a need for more individualized attention....a degree of which someone at a school could not give to each child in terms of time that someone like I can do. But some also have guidance counselors who really are not that helpful or knowledgeable about the kind of schools they are looking into. </p>

<p>Frazzled pointed out another reason I see some hiring a college counselor and that is because they have a specialized type of admissions process that would benefit from someone with expertise in that area since most school counselors are not familiar with that specialized admissions process and all that it entails, nor the schools that offer these areas. So, even those who have good guidance counselors, or who have even gone through this process with an older sibling, still hire a counselor to guide them if they have a child pursuing a more specialized path. I see this, for example, with those pursuing various arts programs or recruited athletes, and other specialties. Frazzled also mentioned that sometimes a student has special circumstances (ie., special needs, something on their record, other issues) and the college admissions path is not the typical smooth one and they need help in the process more than a typical student would need. </p>

<p>As frazzled explained and I would concur, a student and his/her family can be just as successful in this process without a college counselor. But there are many reasons where some find it to be very helpful to them. That reason is not to get an "edge" or not to get their kid into college but to be an individualized advisor that they will find just very helpful as they wade through the quagmire of college admissions. Can you do this on your own? Definitely. Many CCers here have equipped themselves very well to do just that. But not everyone is like that and they desire the guidance of someone with expertise who can work with their child. It is not a "must" or a "should" or an "advantage". But it is desirable for many and they find it helpful. Some don't need or want that help and that's OK too and their child's chances of admission to college are no different because of that. The typical CC parent is not necessarily indicative of the typical parent. The fact that all of you are on CC means you are equipping yourself with knowledge about the process. I can tell you that there are many out there who build very inappropriate college lists and who have no clue how to go about creating effective applications and all the rest. If you can learn about all of this on your own or by reading CC, that can work. Not all do that, however. It is very understandable to me that many who read CC wonder why anyone would hire an independent counselor. But you guys are not necessarily typical parents. Many really cannot do this for whatever reason, and/or just desire that support and guidance through the process from someone who knows what they are doing. It makes it less stressful for their family. As well, certain admissions processes are not typical ones and are quite specialized and would be a lot for a parent to research and figure out....almost like a part time job. Like with anything, some may want to hire someone who knows this stuff. :D</p>

<p>Thanks everyone!! We go to a private school and believe me when i say that 75% of the boys class has hired an outside service. My boys are very proactive, and once I realized that they know longer believed that it was a national law that kids were only allowed to go to college, 2.5 hours from home, I was able to let go of "my college hopes and dreams". We do work well together, and they trust me when I advise them...however we haven't gotton to the hard part yet. I know they aren't the norm- I know my mother is jealous....as I was the NORM!!!</p>

<p>Also the "edge" I think I meant was the inside knowlege that some cc's have- what skills and talents to emphasize- or even what schools may be looking for those talents. Of course I do feel like I get that from these boards.</p>

<p>In the case of my school 70% of those that use an outside service use the same lady, I believe that there is a sense of calm that goes with knowing someone that knows what they are doing has your back, and can guide you in directions that you may not have considered. </p>

<p>I always try to stay away from "keeping up with the Joneses" but every now and then I do feel I'm the only Smith!!!! :)</p>

<p>Thanks again for all of your thoughtful advice!</p>

<p>2by2, I find that very interesting. Have you talked to the in school GCs? Usually one of the strengths of private schools is the college counseling - not always, but usually. I do smell a certain aroma of "keeping up with the neighbors", in that 70% of the parents use outside counseling, but also wonder what's up with the school's counselors. Heck, it could be that your kids get one on one attention because everyone else is using the outside service!</p>

<p>
[quote]
We go to a private school

[/quote]
</p>

<p>S's private school college counseling was superb. If you assess yours to be very capable, you might want to just monitor them. </p>

<p>Our experience was that the HS counselors kept up meticulously with the deadlines and progress of each boy. It was great not to have to stand over S on this, although my S took ownership of this process early in the game.</p>

<p>His private school also had some who went the outside counselor route. I heard some conversations about 2 boys who really felt like their parents did not feel they could get into "the right school" without this extra help. Apparently, these boys felt that was a slap. Not sure that I disagree.</p>

<p>Well...of course there is more to the story. This particular woman worked at the school for years and had a great reputation. She then went out on her own (several years ago) and my guess is that our school was caught off guard with the seemingly sudden changes in the acceptance rates. </p>

<p>I think they are more on track now, but word of mouth and a highly competive environment has certainly helped this woman's business. When my friends talk about the personality tests that the whole family took, or the trip schedule that she prepared for them- part of me says...I can do all that...and the other part says....oh wait....I want a personality test!! oops I mean I want the boys to have a personality test! :) </p>

<p>Oh well.... thank goodness for all the resources available to us!!</p>

<p>
[quote]
our school was caught off guard with the seemingly sudden changes in the acceptance rates

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I found it humorous that so many of the parents felt that private school came with a college admission acceptance letter to the college of the parents' dreams.</p>

<p>A good counselor can be a wonderful thing in the right circumstances. </p>

<p>For example, a friend (who qualifies for no need based aid) hired a counselor to find a school for his daughter. He wanted a generous scholarship and a good fit.</p>

<p>The counselor spent many hours with the girl, mostly at night on the telephone, in order to properly place her. The counselor, incidentally, was not very interested in what my friend thought would be best. The counselor identified several schools. They were basically safety schools, but in all other respects they were a great fit. She was accepted at all, and most offered merit scholarships at about 50% of tuition. The counselor advised not to go for full scholarships because such schools would not be challenging enough. In other words, he recommended compromising selectivity only so far to get merit aid -- and he knew from experience which schools would pay for what level of selectivity, and which would not. </p>

<p>Ultimately, my friend saved $15k per year for 4 years. His daughter is happy with the great fit, my friend is happy with his bargain, and the counselor, who charged five thousand dollars for his efforts, is obviously happy. Everyone got what they wanted. That is my friend's story. I think that it would be very hard for most parents to duplicate such results, even if they had the time to try.</p>

<p>(Had my friend and his daughter not been so hung up on status, he could have saved even more by sending her to a state school . . .)</p>

<p>Oh well, 2by2, then you may have hit on one of the reasons to hire a private counselor!
My D's private school has great college counselling, but we actually briefly used a private counselor because the school counselor was taken ill around Christmas of D's junior year, and it wasn't clear for a time whether she would be able to continue. In the end, all worked out well for the school's counselor, she was great, and the money (not a lot) and time (more of a pain), spent on the outside person was a waste, but we didn't know that at the time.
To give you a yardstick - even at our not so competitive school the kids take personality tests (not the parents), the kids and parents are interviewed separately and once together, advice on scheduling trips is given, the parents do a brag sheet on the kid, the staff packs and mails up to 6 apps for each student.</p>

<p>For $100 we hired a nationally-known counselor who emailed lengthy questionnaires to us and to our child, and then held a phone interview with our child. In return we received by email a detailed report of match possibilities based on our inputs. Our child was recently admitted EA to one of the covered schools, and has applied RD to others. For those on the fence (like we were), this seems an excellent starting point and sanity check.</p>