I think it’s important to have access to graduate math classes but I don’t think the ranking of the grad school, esp USNWR, makes any difference. Even if the student takes grad classes as an UG, they will in all likelihood retake them in grad school unless they pass the comp exam in that particular area before they start the first year (unlikely to happen for most). Taking grad classes as an UG basically reassures the grad school admissions that you can handle those level classes, not that you have mastery over the material.
Re rankings: DS was recommended to attend one of the Group 1 schools for his PhD
This can vary by the individual math department and student concerned.
The HS classmates who pursued math PhDs(Pure and Applied) in top 8-10 programs didn’t need to repeat any of the graduate math classes they took as undergrads. Instead, they were allowed to continue onto more advanced topics and sometimes even given credit towards their PhD coursework requirements.
Taking grad school level courses with grad students and from well known professors in their field has advantages. Larger schools also will have many more offerings. The caliber of entry level honors (and regular) math courses varies from school to school. Different amounts of material will be covered and expected to be learned at different schools. The higher rankings for a grad school does influence undergrad teaching, available research and seminars et al. It can also mean influence in letters of recommendation from those highly regarded in their field.
I can’t believe undergrad debt would have any influence on law school funding, either. The student’s merit likely generated the funds.
re retaking courses in grad school. I vaguely remember from eons ago that Chemistry grad students needed to pass tests in various areas, only needing courses where their scores were too low. I suspect the same thing happens in other fields- if you know the material there is no need to repeat it.
I hope this student goes to Ohio State. Seems to be the better deal financially and academically. LAC’s typically don’t meet STEM students’ needs as well.
“I hope this student goes to Ohio State. Seems to be the better deal financially and academically. LAC’s typically don’t meet STEM students’ needs as well.”
It is not ridiculous to hope a student goes to a school that likely has better classes available in the fields that matter- math along with computer science. The strengths in other fields are meaningless. btw- Notre Dame does not rank that highly compared to many schools in other STEM fields. Many people erroneously think that being private and competitive means being better than public options. Flagship U’s serve two populations- the ordinary better than average college student (the average go to other state schools) and the high end students who take the honors courses and may not be able to afford the private schools (plus the fact that there is not enough room for all who can excel in them).
Get over the prestige factor for school name. Be sure to look at individual majors and opportunities for the student. People from the coasts often forget that there are some great public institutions in the middle of the country (some are above Ohio State, btw).
I was in the Honors program at OSU. The key to OSU is to navigate the chaos that is 50,000 18-22 year olds fueled on beer and football. Doable, and as parents what you can do is guide your child on the little things (like suggest living on North Campus over South).
I also did the London honors program, which cost money, but also set me up with the right social circles to succeed.
Notre Dame is probably pretty crazy too, but less than Ohio State. You are paying 4X more to pretty much to limit the crazy distractions.
My husband and I have 3 children, each one year apart. We have our 529 account divided evenly. We based the tuition we can afford on that amount, allowing more for financial aid and any loans the child is willing to take on (we are limiting the loans as well). If you look at the needs of all four of your children, you can either afford ND prices for all or you can’t. If you can, let her go to ND if that is what she wants… If not, then OSU it is.
I pretty much agree with @MissAlice. At the end of the day, both schools have fine Mathematics programs, and for the most part the OSU honors programs puts your child in position to succeed at Ohio State.
Lots of good points by all. ihs76 - not crazy at all picking and paying more for an elite education. Just a choice and a probably a better one than spending money on a fancy car. I suspect your child is getting an education and experience they will never forget. While we (really my son) made a different choice - just as many people thought it was crazy for him to not attend the more “elite” school. It is tough to compare salaries at larger schools with salaries at elite institutions, and it is just as tough for smaller elite schools (outside of MITs and CalTechs) to rank as high as large research universities in STEM fields. The salary comparison under rates how the top big school grads do in the real world, and the STEM academic rankings under rates the quality of a STEM education at an Notre Dame type of school. The ND CS, engineering students, and business students especially are getting a great education and great paying jobs. Foobar, you hit the nail on the head in pointing out that salaries were not broken down by major. IL has a 60% acceptance rate, but their CS program is more like Ivy League acceptance rate and their salaries will blow most grads at most schools out of the water. MN engineering has 14,000 applications for 1000 spots and a 32 ACT average. IN & WI have great business schools and their grads will compete for the good business jobs. When you have nursing schools, and ag schools, and a huge arts and letters student populations, acceptance rates will go up and average salary will go down, but in the end the top MI, IN and ND business grads are getting paid the same. The Purdue, ND, MN, WI engineering grads are getting paid the same (and IL maybe a little more). I had a friend transfer from Yale to ND…a step down academically in most eyes…but the perfect move for him. There is the money side (tuition and salary) and the experience side - and the balance for each student and family is different, but I suspect the students on this forum (or being discussed on this forum by their parents) will do just fine in life if they remember one thing. Getting into …Ivy U, Elite U, Honor Program…is just the start…you have not made it, and if you think you have, you will be disappointed. But if you realize you are off to a great start to your unique journey and take advantage of what the schools have to offer, you will be ready for launch in 4 years.