<p>I know you know how much my D loves Scripps. It is the most selective school she is applying to so her biggest reach = her biggest love. If you have seen my posts on other forums you know that her math scores were low. She is now serious about SAT prep and admits that she really wasn't before. She is going to schedule a retake in June so I am anticipating improvement </p>
<p>Here is my question...If her application is solid in all other respects, top 10%, course rigor, strong CR and writing scores blah, blah, blah. Will a math score that is lower than that mid 50% mark torpedo her chances? She is shooting to improve her math score by 140 points to put herself in a better position, but if she falls short of that should she still apply? Also, does it impress adcoms to know that a kid retook the test for them?</p>
<p>My D is at or near the 25 percentile for both verbal and math (took it once and looked at me like I was crazy when I inferred that SOME people actually take it more than once... got a 760 on writing but it doesn't count...drat), and she got what I'd call a "likely" letter. She's got some other good stuff going for her, like near perfect grades and is "URM" ,and without financial need, FWIW.</p>
<p>Your daughter will need to keep everything else as strong as possible, take the math studying as seriously as she can, and see what happens. I would definitely encourage applying, regardless of the final math score. If she really loves the school, she may ultimately rather be rejected than be left wondering (within reason, this is my own attitude...it doesn't always result in happy news, but I do get a feeling of closure + contentment with my other options). If she falls in love with other schools between now and application time (as is likely to happen!), and the math score remains a problem, then you can revisit the question next fall.</p>
<p>If your daughter does an on-campus interview, I'd encourage her to bring this up (although I could be very alone in that advice...I really don't know). She can express her concern, convey that she loves Scripps enough to really be making this effort for them, and address the weakness head-on. In turn, she can hear the admission officer's take on her situation; whether that's reassuring or sobering, it'll at least give her some sort of "anchor" for her hopes/expectations.</p>
<p>FYI, Peterson's (a site I've never seen before), gave me this info re: Scripps (I don't know how current it is, and the emphasis is added):
[quote]
Test Scores:
SAT critical reading scores over 500 100% SAT math scores over 500 100%
ACT scores over 18 100%
SAT critical reading scores over 600 90% SAT math scores over 600 85%
ACT scores over 24 94%
SAT critical reading scores over 700 36% SAT math scores over 700 27%
ACT scores over 30 32%
<p>At a LAC, though, and especially one like Scripps, I don't think any single factor--least of all one fraction of a test score--will "torpedo" an applicant's chances. Best of luck to your daughter...it's a stressful position to be in, but certainly not a hopeless one!</p>
<p>Thanks! I know no one can predict what may happen but it is nice to know she doesn't have to throw in the towel if she still ends up low. To be honest her math score surprised us all as she is a fairly strong math student. My sense is that when she gets her score report next week it will be really helpful in figuring out where she messed up...cockiness may be the root of at least some of it. She's kind of known as a brain and I think it went to her head...;-) </p>
<p>Your advice re bringing it up in interview is good as is exploring other options. She already has a strong sense of "I could be happy and achieve my goals at lots of different schools." which will hopefully grow as she tours and researches more.</p>
<p>Thanks for giving us hope! I am glad we didn't send scores out to anyone yet. It's worth it to pay the extra 40.00 to not have the low ones be a part of her file.</p>
<p>Has your daughter tried taking the ACT? Sometimes, you can get pretty different results from the SAT, and with the ACT, the schools only see the scores from the testing date you select.</p>
<p>We had both our daughters pre-tested on the SAT and ACT and they both had better results from the ACT, so went with that in terms of preparation. Also, scores within the ACT can vary from testing to testing, so setting the expectation that she might have to take it 2 or 3 times might help.</p>
<p>I believe when the SAT sends the most current scores, they also send the older scores. In any case, most colleges that I've contacted say they combine the best scores from each test (highest math, highest writing, highest English) so you can take them as many times as you want and they will ignore the weakest scores. </p>
<p>If I was them I would say, it's unlikely that you can do much better than your skill enables you to (luck can play a small part), but there are a multitude of reasons for messing up (illness, nervousness, just plain brain freeze) and so the better score is more likely a true representation of her skills. My D had scores in the 700s, but she retook the test because they didn't make her nervous and we were only out the money. Raised her total score a little bit; but who knows, that might make the difference.</p>
<p>The math on the SAT is pretty straitforward, but might look a bit different than she sees in school. For kids who only use math when they are in class, it can be a bit of a problem. my advice is to get an SAT math prep book, and just go through the problems (use the college board one - my son found errors in some of the other ones). If she is good at math at the school level, then a bit of practice will help a lot!</p>
<p>Thanks... she and her sister are both going to put more effort into test prep now that they know more clearly where they want to apply. I think they will want to go with the books as well as maybe an online course.</p>
<ul>
<li>Hold off on sending SAT scores to colleges and try to take the ACT besides the SAT after some math prep. </li>
<li>Females tend to score higher on the ACT for some reason.</li>
<li>Schools will see all previous SAT scores when you send the new ones.</li>
<li>ACT you can pick which set of scores to send.</li>
<li>Take the ACT with writing, because many schools require that version.</li>
</ul>
<p>ACT: Next Test Date: April 12, 2008, Registration Deadline: March 7, 2008</p>
<p>ACT Test Date: June 14, 2008 Registration Deadline: May 9, 2008</p>
<p>i agree about having your daughter try the ACT.
i consider myself to be much more astute in mathematics than english but received the same exact math score are CR score on the SAT (only a 680); where as, on the ACT, i recieved a 34 on the math portion.</p>
<p>as you can see, i definitely prefered the ACT and wish i had would have had time for a second shot at it.</p>
<p>I wanted to write this to maybe relieve you since I was accepted ED1 this year, but I had a pretty low SAT score (590) and took it two more times and scored LOWER (580) and that was with prep. So I think the math section was kind of hit or miss with me. My CR and V scores were in the 700s, too, so it seemed like a really big discrepancy. I actually improved on those without any prep; this was kind of frustrating since the only reason I took the SAT twice more was to improve my math score haha</p>
<p>That said, I didn't send my SAT scores. I sent my ACT, which probably still had a low math score, I don't know how to compare the section scores, but I got a 27 on the math. </p>
<p>I think you should have her take the ACT since the math on it is more straightforward math you learn in school whereas the SAT math is meant to trick you and is more logic-based.</p>
<p>Also, I am not in the top 10% of my class, and her extracurriculars and essays should help her too if they're good; testing is such a small portion of the whole application!</p>
<p>At the bottom of this web page (see URL below) there is a chart that takes a SAT or ACT section score and translates it into a "UC" score.
I'm not suggesting that Scripps has a chart like this but if you take both the SAT and the ACT this chart might help you decide which scores to send in.</p>
<p>Merisuh thanks! You and everyone else have eased my mind. Now the question is when to take the ACT. </p>
<p>The April date is when we will be on college tours so it won't work.</p>
<p>The June date is the day after school is out and my girls will have spent the previous six weeks taking three AP tests, retaking the SAT and taking the Subject test. Would you recommend they suck it up and just do it or wait until fall?</p>
<p>Fall vs June really depends on their study habits.
Are they really going to make an effort and study over the summer or would it be better to take it while they are still in exam mode.</p>
<p>Since you can choose which ACT set of scores to send (colleges will only see the ones you pick). They could always take it in June and retake it early next Fall and send in the best scores.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The June date is the day after school is out and my girls will have spent the previous six weeks taking three AP tests, retaking the SAT and taking the Subject test. Would you recommend they suck it up and just do it or wait until fall?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Probably depends on their personal preferences + what kind of preparation they want. I took the June ACT right after finals, SAT, etc. It wasn't fun, but my attitude was sort of "Alright, well, what's one more?" I didn't do any preparation, though. If I'd wanted to prepare, the June test may have been overwhelming. I knew that I wouldn't spend my summer studying, and I figured I'd be just as frazzled come fall!</p>
<p>Taking the ACT in June--even without much/any preparation--might let your daughters get enough of a feel to see whether they actually do prefer it to the SAT. If they do, they can spend some of their summer working towards a re-take (if necessary); if not, they can concentrate their efforts elsewhere. I personally felt after one take that the ACT was not for me, so my own preference would be to get the "which is best?" question answered sooner than later (if registration fees are a problem, practice tests might be equally useful). </p>
<p>Just FYI, my daughter took the SAT twice and had the exact same overall score. Some of her SAT sections went up and some down so it helped with schools like Pomona and Scripps who look at the best score in each section.
And when she took the ACT, using the UC formulas to translate it, she also got the same exact total score. She only took the ACT once and didn't study for it. But I would think the ACT would be easier to improve your score by studying since it is more fact driven.</p>
<p>"The April date is when we will be on college tours so it won't work."</p>
<p>Just a thought. You do not have to take the ACT where you live. In fact, my daughter had a softball tournament in Las Vegas the weekend an ACT was offered. She took it in the morning and made it to all her games that day. We thought we were a little nuts, but there were several softball players from out of town taking the test with her.</p>
<p>You know that actually had crossed my mind^^ an I thought it would be a little nuts too. :-) It would mean taking it somewhere TOTALLY unfamiliar but I guess we could try it. I'll see what the girls think.</p>
<p>historymom, my D hated her trial SATs (math looked too confusing to her) and chose to take the ACT in June right in the middle of her finals, etc. She did great even in the math section with minimal prep (a couple of timed trial tests from the red ACT book, that's all). She is yet to hear from Scripps RD, but another college just sent her a likely letter, and she got into all of her safeties, too. Over the summer kids' brains can get a little "rusty", and September and October of senior year are usually very busy, so in the hindsight, the June ACT was the right way to go, and D is very glad she took it.</p>
<p>Make sure your D is very familiar with the science format. I can be very confusing, and kids tend to overthink it.</p>
<p>As for the unfamiliar place, my D took her test on a community college campus an hour drive from our house. It was probably no different than taking the test in another state. A lot of D's friends who travel for sports competitions took their SATs out of town.</p>
<p>Conferred with the girls and they decided to take the ACT in April on the way home the last day of our trip. We'll get a room in one of the towns offering it, get a good night's sleep and they'll take it in the morning then we'll head home.</p>
<p>ilfri and bunsenburner thanks for validating what I thought was sort of a kooky idea! Turns out it made the most sense for us :-)</p>