<p>okay so for top tier schools...I mean the ivies and top liberal arts colleges</p>
<p>i've heard a few different things about the weight of subject tests in the admissions process and whehter or not there is a "threshold" where the actual number stops mattering so much.</p>
<p>if you have 3 subject tests over 700, but not in the suppoedly magic 750+ range, is that "good enough" if your SAT I score is better?</p>
<p>For example, I got scores of:
710 on lit, chem, and math II (decent, but not great)
2260 SAT (800CR, 750W, 710M)</p>
<p>Any thoughts? Is lower 700s+ good enough if you have all 4's and 5's on AP's and a strong GPA too? Or do subject tests really get weighted as much as the reasoning SAT?</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>I do not think that subject tests are weighted as heavily as the SAT1, in which case you are fine. The only thing I will add is that if you are interested in SEAS, then the Math SAT2 is low (but you appear to be more of a CR/W type). Unlike most of the cc’ers here, I believe that anything above the 700 threshold is going to be considered a good score.</p>
<p>SAT I is more important than SAT II. Also your test scores fit the expectations of top tier schools. I believe that your acceptance will be based on your academic record, extra-curriculars, etc. Your test scores will definitely not count against you.</p>
<p>college4three and dedicated - i know this is general wisdom, but i have learned enough at this point to know it is not the full truth at Ivy and Ivy-like schools.</p>
<p>all factors of the application are weighed together, not separately, and in the end it has to tell a story about the student. there are at times parts of the story that standout for good or bad reasons. so for example the students SAT I here is good, but about avg. for columbia’s accepted class, whereas as the student points out their SAT IIs are not quite that great. so i guess a more rational thing to say - what would standout more in this case would be the lower SAT IIs. if students SAT Is were off the charts (near 2400) then perhaps there is a cancellation going on, but that isn’t the case.</p>
<p>college4three, you are on to something with the question about SEAS - in the end it depends what the student’s interest is in, if it is an english or huma major, then the student shows breadth, but we don’t know his/her coursework, the books that he/she reads that goes on the columbia app, what teachers say about his/her voracity in the classroom.</p>
<p>750 plus is a good score for ivy - top lib arts in SAT IIs. though some SAT IIs like Latin are notoriously hard and 700+ is good.</p>
<p>to the OP - there are so many other factors at play - who you are, where you’re coming from, what you want to study, what do you know about what you want to study, what are your outside interests, that are left out of this picture when you ask about scores. </p>
<p>have folks been admitted with your scores? yes. but they may have had different things going for them. but there have been many more students denied with your scores - so being ‘in the ballpark’ isn’t quite enough. the subtlety of how you compose your application (including what tests you take), to how you talk about yourself, how your teachers talk about you, these are the intangibles that make someone with a solid academic record and good extracurriculars stand out in a very competitive admissions process.</p>
<p>^^admissionsgeek, great stuff there. would you mine taking a look at my chances forum? thank you so much!</p>
<p>@admissionsgeek:
You certainly do know your stuff! Do you have a professional background in Admissions?
I think your description of the application, vis-a-vis telling a story, is the best I’ve heard. I agree that in a sea of high scorers, the subtleties are what sets one student apart from another.
My feeling is that especially here on CC, however, there is decidedly too much emphasis put on the numbers alone. It is not uncommon, as you know, to have students scoring in the high 2200 to low 2300’s asking strangers if they should retest for a higher score. Almost unanimously, the kids here encourage them to retake. I reject this notion that a young person’s free time should be monopolized by test-prep. It is summer, and youth comes around but once.
I suppose it is this mentality that informs my opinion regarding test scores. I hold fast to the idea that above the low 700 threshold, there is little to be gained from retesting. Sure, it would be nice to be 750+ the first time, but to me, 710’s across the board indicate a student who is quite capable.</p>
<p>just a former tour guide who was close with admissions officers (and have heard their information sessions enough times to probably repeat them), and someone who has lived on this board enough to figure a few things out. it is far more obvious than folks believe, but maybe that’s because i have been fascinated by admissions since i applied way back when. </p>
<p>and the application should tell a story thing - i should cite my sources! haha, this is almost exactly how various folks at the columbia office talk about admissions, and i found it compelling. because they aren’t here to populate the board, i don’t mind sharing the wisdom i’ve gained from my time helping out.</p>
<p>another piece of wisdom i picked up and i am for the most part paraphrasing things i’ve heard along the way that i peddle as truth because i believe it is - there are tons of students who believe that by improving their test scores they can sneak into an ivy spot, and for some that may work out, but for most it isn’t the case.</p>
<p>either you got it or you don’t. either you’re a truly impressive student who thinks on a different plane than your peers and have since you started school, or you’re just a fantastic kid with good scores who will do fine in college. columbia and ivies are looking for exceptional cases and i think folks that are valedictorians of their hs with good testing don’t see that; it honestly isn’t enough to be admitted just to have those stats.</p>
<p>it is about having a cultivated personality that shines, and can even outshine weak parts of your application supposing you have any. sure if you were hitting on all cylinders you’d always stand a better chance of being admitted, but the subtleties of someone’s personality will consistently be what, as i believe must be true after all i’ve learned, seals the deal. and these are the intangible qualities that make a great student stand out from a good student.</p>
<p>if i had any interest (i get too biased for who i want to go to columbia to be any good at it) in chance forums, i probably could skip someone’s test scores entirely and go to how they describe themselves to guess what kind of chance they stood at actually being admitted. being able to communicate is honestly the hardest part of the application, and that which students spend the least amount of time. sure folks might be ‘rushed,’ but in the end if you can’t present yourself with some personality, intrigue and maturity in that section, it probably indicates that your essay (and probably how your teachers perceive you) wont stand out either.</p>
<p>well you certainly are insightful. good instincts, too. I agree with most (almost all) of what you’ve stated.
to the OP: the advice here is all sound. My suggestion would be to let the scores remain and focus on building on the other parts of your profile, whatever they may be. explore your interests. determine what about Columbia is most appealing to you. write a great essay.</p>