<p>Hello everyone!
I am in a difficult situation right now!
I had almost made up my mind to enroll at Wash U's Olin business School!
But today I met my counsellor and he asked me to consider Colgate over Wash U!
He cited the following reasons:
1. Smaller class size.
2. Location near the East Coast ie better access to jobs in NYC etc.
3. Bigger brand name! (Really? )
4. Liberal arts education.</p>
<p>This has really confused me. I initially thought that selecting Wash U was a no-brainer! But the conviction of my counsellor has made me have second thoughts.
I really need your comments to help clear my mind.
P.S I intend to pursue Investment Banking, Finance or Entrepreneurship as a career. I do have an interest in Pol Sci and International Relations as well and would love to pursue one of these as a second major.
Aid is also a factor. The aid package at Wash U is quite good. (54k)</p>
<p>I’ll confess that I am not a fan of business as an undergraduate major, preferring a well rounded education, followed by an MBA. IMO, no one can teach entrepreneurship period. Economics, Political Science and international relations are all good preparation for the world. My undergraduate major was history, followed by law school and then, after a 6 year hiatus, an MBA. Having stated my prejudices, allow me to express my opinion on your question.</p>
<p>2) Rural NY may be closer to NY for jobs, if you are a crow. Otherwise, I suspect that it is faster door to door from STL. But it doesn’t matter. Also, STL is closer to Chicago, Seattle, Texas and California. Your first job out of college can be anywhere, and so can your college.</p>
<p>1) Really? Depending on your major, large introductory classes almost always lead to smaller classes at WU. WU professors may do research, but they also teach and have a reputation for being accessible. </p>
<p>3) Did your counselor really say that? Reputation is totally subjective, but I doubt that Colgate has a better brand name among the informed. If your career path includes graduate school, I would give the nod to WU. In any event, the fields you mention will be far more interested in your attitude, and your abilities in analysis and communication, than in your alma mater. </p>
<p>Colgate definitely has a bigger brand name… if you’re in the toothpaste industry :P</p>
<p>In all seriousness though:</p>
<p>1.) I don’t know anything about Colgate’s class sizes. Washu’s upper level courses are fairly small though, and even if Colgate’s are smaller, I wouldn’t consider it that important a difference.</p>
<p>2.) Agreed with Ruppy1 here. If WUSTL was in Podunk, MO then sure, Colgate would have better east coast job opportunities. But St. Louis isn’t THAT small - plenty of businesses still recruit there.</p>
<p>3.) Maybe for some people that’s the case; I would not bet that it’s the norm, however.</p>
<p>4.) Again, like Ruppy1 said, the liberal arts courses at washu aren’t bad by any means.</p>
<p>So, I definitely don’t think that it’s a bad idea to at least consider Colgate, but I don’t think the arguments provided are that good.</p>
<p>I agree with almost everything you just said. Where companies recruit is not as important as how they regard graduates of a school, not that I’d believe that Colgate is a bigger draw than WU. In NYC, upstate NY may as well be in Wisconsin (ask anyone who lives in Manhattan). </p>
<p>Also, just to be clear, the liberal arts classes aren’t “not bad”, they tend to be excellent. Being my tactless self, however, I would point out that some “required, diversity, distribution” courses can be poor anywhere. Nothing like a captive audience of uninterested students to get the best from the Professor. Full disclosure: I do think WU has gone way too far with distribution and cluster requirements.</p>
<p>If one assumes the aid was not as good at Colgate I think you would be crazy not to go to WUSTL. Of course its all about fit but you sound like WUSTL (or both) might fit - given that, go with the much better financial deal!</p>
<p>Why should you blindly follow your counselor’s recommendation? Do your own research, and examine what each school offers you. I really can’t comment on job prospects out of each school, as I am a physician. Why not find out from each school who recruits there. There is only 1 person who could really know what is best for you- you. This will be one of the most important decisions of your life. </p>
<p>I also think that you have an awesome aid package at WUSTL, and Colgate with no aid is mighty expensive.</p>
<p>Points taken - school reputation (or regard, or whatever term you want to use) does play a large role in job opportunities. Additionally, the liberal arts classes are quite good, wasn’t my intention to belittle them.</p>
<p>Now as for clusters/distribution requirements: I know a lot of people don’t like them. Are they a bit of a pain to make sure you fulfill everything? Sure, but I don’t think they’re unreasonable. It basically amounts to 9 courses outside of your major (potentially fewer if you include double majors/minors), 3 in each of 3 broad areas. I think it’s hardly overboard to ask a student to take 9 out of 40+ classes in various areas.</p>
<p>Liberal arts majors do fit for some, not for others. If you want to work in public accounting/auditing, for example, LA won’t do it. That being said, Olin’s curriculum is not that heavy by any means, you could almost obtain a first rate liberal arts education along side something practical if it’s your cup of tea. Colgate is a stronger brand than WashU? This counselor needs to read up, travel more and think through before advising his charges.</p>
<p>About distribution requirements, I don’t think it’s that bad. Essentially, my alma matter did this to us over thirty years ago. I can’t believe WashU is such a slacker ;)</p>
<p>These two schools are no where near each other in terms of academic quality and reputation. In the b school, 40% of the required classes are in the arts and sciences, so you’ll defintely have a liberal arts background. Also, it is super easy to double major and almost every single person in the b school does double major, whether the second major is in olin or the arts and sciences or engineering or architecture. Also, olin has a 98% job placement rate within 3 months of graduation and the average starting salary was $62,000- one of the highest in the country. Also, Olin was just ranked #4, ahead of Wharton and #2 in finance. Wash u itself is #14 overall. So i dont know what your conselor was talking about, but he was dead wrong.</p>
<p>This thread seems to be bouncing from one extreme to the other. The bottom line is that 54K in FA (if that’s true…sounds like a ton or even more than they offer their very top scholarship winners) at Wash U IS a no-brainer. We haven’t heard the aid at Colgate, but unless it is the same or more then you have a no-brainer. Would be a no-brainer even if it was Harvard for 20K more per year. That said, Colgate is very much in Wash U’s league, especially if you account for Wash U’s sycophantic pursuit of higher and higher rankings with USNWR. I’m told that the marketing drive for ever more applications is more intense than any school in the country.</p>
<p>This marketing drive for application talk gets so old. IMHO people don’t blindly apply to a school of this caliber because they were fooled by amazing marketing techniques. More importantly it has no impact on the quality of education - just acceptance rate and a ranking.</p>
<p>Case in point on rankings nonsense - see #9 above - if you think Olin is a better business school than Wharton…well I have some great swamp land to sell you.</p>
<p>As has been pointed out if the financial factors weigh that heavily in WashU’s favor then it should be hard not to choose it. If they are even go for fit - not for ranking.</p>
<p>Bigdog, it is well accepted that Wash U is a fantastic school. But they either do engage in a massive marketing drive or they don’t. Word is that Wash U is extraordinarily image-conscious. Do you disagree??? And with apparent great results. It is risen markedly in the “rankings.” As for Colgate, it is had a fantastic reputation at least 75 years before Wash U emerged on the scene. Any suggestion that Colgate is second-rate in any way is ludicrous.</p>
<p>Washu’s aggressive marketing doesn’t make their rapid ascent into the realms of the elite any less legitimate. Additionally, I see no reason to be skeptical about the $54K in FA. Although not need-blind, washu is usually pretty good about meeting financial need for those that it does accept. Merit based scholarships and need based aid are completely different areas; it’s ridiculous to try and compare the two. </p>
<p>Sure Colgate is a good school, but you surely have to admit that it can’t compare to wustl in some areas. So depending on the area of interest, it may be justified to say that Colgate is not in WUSTL’s league, despite washu only recently earning its reputation.</p>
<p>I would attach alot of attention to the GC’s advice. Presumably he or she knows the applicant well enough to attach more support to the recommendation than we may have read about here e.g. feedback from recent and past graduates of your school.</p>
<p>I am from the US northeast and when I applied to Colgate eons ago I never heard of Washington/Olin. But it was the campus visit itself that sold me on the idea that I could be on Colgate’s magnificent campus with that cohesive community for 4 years- apart from my junior spring semester in France that I had planned to take. Of course now we have college websites and e-mail to assist with information exchange. </p>
<p>LACs and what they achieve are terrific sources of groundwork for careers, by the way. I had lots of finance and law training after Colgate and treasure my liberal arts courses so much so that I can still name almost all of them semester by semester. And many of my professors remember me when I return to Hamilton, NY for campus functions. What a terrific investment Colgate was for me. That’s why we alumni and parents and friends are so eager to contribute to its future.</p>
<p>RyanMK, I understand the difference between FA and merit… The point is that 54K is a ton of FA, about as high as you can go, so one would suspect something in the ballpark from other elite schools (if indeed it is FA). What do you mean better in some areas? Colgate is an LAC. Colgate doesn’t have to apologize to anyone. It’s been in the upper echelon of prestigious for more than a 100 years. Wash U is a great school. Let’s just not act like Colgate is some also-ran in comparison.</p>
<p>Well, I’m not sure why you are skeptical of OP’s claim, and why you compared it to merit scholarships - of course it’s a large amount compared to washu’s merit money, but that’s irrelevant. Additionally, I’m not saying Colgate has to “apologize” for anything. I’m simply saying that in some areas of education, it’s not unreasonable to claim that wustl is superior to colgate. I’m not trying to generalize it to the colleges/universities as a whole.</p>
<p>2) How about engineering? Colgate doesn’t offer it. Guess who they partner with? WUSTL. I’d say that is a pretty clear indication that WUSTL is superior in that regard. I’d also say wustl’s premed is better than colgate’s. For you to claim that wustl is in no way superior to colgate is pure foolishness.</p>
<p>finalchild, you asked me whether I agree that WashU is image conscious. I guess I don’t see people sitting around with the idea that it is the critical function of the school - which some seem to suggest. It is a “newer” school compared to many in the US with great history. Bottom line regardless of that once all this “tricky” and fancy marketing brings kids in it has to deliver a quality education…if it didn’t the gig would be up no matter how hard you market.</p>
<p>As for Colgate I think you protest a bit too much. Its a WUSTL board and someone comes on and asks WUSTL vs Colgate and shocker…people here think WashU is better. I think it is also - just an opinion that matters not. What makes it a real no brainer is the aid (again, assuming the cost will be significantly less than Colgate).</p>
<p>Full disclosure for me on Colgate, my best friends son had an awful experience there and transferred out - again, in the big picture it means nothing but it was interesting to hear his experience and the details.</p>
<p>Well no doubt Colgate’s by no means a sub tier school, but I suspect Colgate’s location in rural NY will be an advantage over St Louis. St Louis probably has a lot more than Hamilton, let’s be honest. 54k a lot of money considering I know people who turn down Ivy League school because they’ve been offered 20k more at WashU. I think WashU would be a better fit for you than Colgate. As as far as name recognition goes, WashU is probably the better known school NOW and and WashU really trying to expand it’s presence to other nations as well which is a huge plus.</p>