On College-Entrance Exam Day, All of South Korea Is Put to the Test

Applying to College
81

<p>Chehk, </p>

<p>Let me address your comments: one on elders, one on Asians, and one on NYU.</p>

<p>First, elders: I am fairly old (in my mid-50s) and have no idea what you are complaining about. Elders deserve respect, but not reverence--as seems to be the case in South Korea. They deserve respect for the things they have done and accomplished and sacrificed for--but if there have been no sacrifices, no accomplishments, and all they do is endorse the status quo, then what should they be thanked and revered for--just for living a long time?</p>

<p>Too often I find older people to be set in their ways and unwilling to embrace changes needed to enable progress or solve societal problems--and that's true in the US as well as in Asia. Asian countries, however, are facing major problems BECAUSE of their aging populations and because of the unwillingness to understand that the focus needs to be on helping youth accomplish a lot--because they are the ones who are creating the products and the ones creating innovation and who have the willingness to take risks--and whose wages will pay for all of the (now retired) elders. Youth's new ideas need to be tempered with some experience of course--but just having a lot of experience does not mean someone is the smartest person in a group. Take the last US administration, when we were led into a war in Iraq and an economic crisis by people in the US cabinet and our president who supposedly were experienced in foreign relations and in economic systems--but their experience was useless to us. </p>

<p>One of our leaders back in the 1980s, Robert Kennedy, was once asked if he had the experience to lead the country. His answer was that if the only requirement was experience (and not things like intelligence or imagination, or leadership, or strategic thinking) then we should just all vote for the oldest man or woman in the country. He then asked who wanted to do that--and not one person in the crowd (this was in the US) thought that was a good idea.</p>

<p>Now let's talk about Asians. You say in one breath that all the Asians are the ones getting into the top schools in the US and getting into investment banks--and then at the same time you say that the Asians aren't the ones leading us into a credit crisis. Since most of the people in the investment banking jobs are those who led us into the credit crisis by selling these worthless mortgages to others, I'm trying to figure out what you are talking about? The facts show that people of asian descent are going into these investment banking jobs in great numbers--so I don't know why you think they aren't also involved in selling these worthless mortgages and worthless credit default swaps. Unlike you, I'm not going to blame an entire race or ethnicity for our problems (as I'm sure that the problem and the people who caused it are spread across a wide variety of ethnicities and races).</p>

<p>Next you talk about Asians working harder than Americans. I presume you are referring to actual residents of Asian countries and not Americans of Asian descent--although I believe they also work very hard. To this I say, yes, this is certainly true--but so what? It is estimated tha South Korea and Japan are the only places in the world where "death by work" is a regular phenomenon. Your companies get rich while your people can barely survive. When are you going to do realize that there is more to life than working hard forever so that just a few people can live well while 99% suffer? We had a rebellion here in the US to prevent all the benefits of our hard work being taxed and sent to British King George III and his few friends. When will Korea wake up (both the South and the North) and throw out the leaders that take everything for the few while allowing the many to toil for peanuts? What good does it do your students to get into great schools, if all they will do is return to a planned, terrible life in Korea. You need some of these smart people to work to try and change one aspect of your culture--which is the one that only those who are old are smart and only those who are in power in the country deserve to always be in charge (and in power). Just look at the responses of all the Koreans who came to the US on this thread and see how many want to go back to Korea--the answer is none. Apparently, they all consider this cultural problem too difficult to overcome. And what is the result of that: the US benefits, because we get to keep all the smart Koreans who want to stay and develop their great ideas and start new businesses here.</p>

<p>We have a saying here in the US--work smarter, not harder. We believe that the smartest people should be able to get ahead--and most of our laws encourage these efforts. I personally believe the French are the smartest ones in this regard. They work less than the average American, have a better (and cheaper) health care system, a better pension system, and have already solved most of their energy problems by converting to nuclear power for 90% of their needs--thus avoiding the problems we are having by needing to pay $800 billion a year to foreigners to finance our "oil" addiction. They still need to work a bit on enabling this for all ethnicities, however.</p>

<p>Lastly, I don't understand you criticizing NYU, which probably has placed more people in top finance jobs than any school in the country besides Wharton (Penn), and which also has produced some great people in the fine arts (theatre and movies) as well as in its many other majors. You probably don't know that NYU admits more international students to its campus than any other university in the entire country (I think USC is second). So if you think it's not such a great place, that's kind of defeating your other arguments on the superiority of foreigners (specifically Asians) in admissions.</p>

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<p>Firstly, let me clear up this, what business do you have meddling with other cultures? If they think that respect is important, then let them be. This respect is not staring at them in pure awe, its merely treating them nicely, addressing them properly and spending time with them. If you have problems with family then that is a far graver issue. The youth of Asia are encompassing the world, they are bringing new and untouched ideas. The most populous continent in the world is sending its best and brightest to every corner of the globe. Also their wages do not pay for the elders, sure they may give them some money, but in many cases it is the other way around. In Asia, everybody saves huge amounts of money, they keep a lot in cash. In China, many people pay for cars in cash, yes they carry bags of money with them, this has limited there exposure to the "Credit Crunch" and "Mortgage Meltdown" because they didn't borrow money to buy their houses.</p>

<p>Secondly, are you familiar with the way an investment bank works? These Asians, most of them have graduated from the top business schools (including Stern) in the last 10 years. Thus they did not cause this credit crunch, most of them are mere analysts, slaving away. The ones who caused it are the managing directors, the "Big Wigs" who make all the decisions. Sure the analysts can input their opinion, as they all work as a team, but they really do not control company policy.</p>

<p>I presume you have a doctorate in Asian studies, specifically Korean government policy, because you make a developed country look like Batista's Cuba. I have been to Korea and it is a nice place. Where do you get these facts of them not spreading the peoples' taxes around. Of course they do, there is equal government spending! Barely survive! That is why they are impoverished is it not? The only impoverished developed nation.
Yes and we did fight that war about no representation, however if you are an expatriate, with a passport of the United States, you are still forced to pay United States taxes along with the taxes of the country you are in, though you do get a small rebate, hmm sounds quite familiar... Furthermore, this will not change, because most expatriates are of the highest income group and thus it is practically free money for our government.</p>

<p>The smartest people in Korea (and Asia) do get ahead, it is in effect the most competitive of situations, so why do you mention this? A fair chunk of our 800bn is actually going to Asian fat cats, the Chinese in particular through holding companies and deals with oil producing nations, mainly in Africa. I do agree that France has the best working regimen, as I go to school more than they work. Though this breeds, disinterest, laziness and thus brings up the old uncompetitiveness. All these are by the way signs once exhibited by the old USSR in the structural inefficiencies of the command economy. I do not think France will go down the same road, however I think this hinders productivity and they are not all they can be. </p>

<p>NYU, undergrad, is not, I repeat, not that great. People from my school went there as an almost third string school. They go there because it has such broadness, they can do whatever they like. Grad wise, they are solid, Stern is a fast improving top 10 (10th) business school. However, are you trying to tell me that it beats HBS, SGSB, Tuck, Haas, Booth and Kellogg? The definitive answer is, no. The rankings prove that and have for a long time. International students who go to NYU seem unsure, or, they went because, from Asia, it is near impossible to get into HYP, due to quotas on regions. It is not a no name state, but I would not treat it as a top tier school. US news ranks it 33rd. Hardly Harvard.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
In China, many people pay for cars in cash, yes they carry bags of money with them, this has limited there exposure to the "Credit Crunch" and "Mortgage Meltdown" because they didn't borrow money to buy their houses.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hahahahaha. Oh wait, you were serious? :rolleyes:</p>

<p>China bought all of OUR bad papers and they're in worse pain than we are in now. Look at Korea. The US sneezes, the Won/Kosdaq go into a death spiral. The system in Korea sucks. There's no way around it. The culture's rotten, the workplace culture there's rotten, the politicians's rotten, and the whole system's rotten. Students know the answer, but can't explain it. There was a saying when my mom was in teacher's school-the only way to know you truly understand the material is if you can teach it to someone. When you've sat there and wrote out verb conjugations 20 times in English or French class, you can't explain to someone how to conjugate a verb in French or English, nor can you apply it to your actual writing. And that's how they teach languages in Korea. Yes, I'm Korean-American. No, you couldn't pay me to go live in Korea. I don't understand what's so disrespectful about voicing my opinion that their system's too ****ed up to begin with?</p>

<p>And smart people DON'T get ahead in Korea. That's why there's coming here in the first place-because this society is much more egalitarian than Korea is. I've lived there. I know. The people with the most connections get ahead. I have several friends in Korea who each know several people who went to the top universities in Korea and ended up unemployed there so they're studying in the US, Canada or the UK. Smart people too. People that would likely be more than employable in the US, Canada or the UK. That country's experiencing an uncontrollable brain drain there because their system is designed solely to benefit the wealthiest. Like I said, the starting salary for someone working for Samsung is $16,000 per year. If you work at Samsung you most likely went to SNU or some other university, got top scores on your application exam, and did very well in your interview. In the third most expensive city in the world. If they somehow claw their way up to manager in that "seniority is king" corporate culture, they'll make maybe $25,000 per year. If they're lucky. If the cr</p>

84

<p>
[quote]
South Korea invented the first mp3 player, but Apple transformed it into the iPod.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Even that they probably copied from Sony. Samsung's notoriously good at copying Sony's technology. They did it with the Walkman. Hyundai probably copies a lot of stuff from Toyota/Honda.</p>

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<p>Chehk, </p>

<p>Where do I get these facts about unequal levels of income and that people in South Korea are unhappy with the government efforts to prevent large income polarization?--How about from one of the largest papers in Korea?. Here's an editorial they printed in February: </p>

<p>[Editorial</a>] Record-setting income disparity : Editorial : Home</p>

<p>Let me quote from this article:</p>

<p>"Up to 86 percent of Koreans are discontented with the nation’s income disparity."</p>

<p>"The average income of the highest 20% of the population is 7.66 times the income of the lowest 20% of the population."</p>

<p>"The problems of income disparity and socioeconomic polarization cannot be solved [by minor measures]. The government should look for solutions within the social structure.The nation’s big business-oriented economic structure should be transformed into one focused on smaller firms, and the quality of labor should be improved by granting regular status to irregular workers. We cannot prepare for the future with an old economic system that is dependant on cheap wages." </p>

<p>This article, printed the same day:</p>

<p>Income</a> gap at its widest point since 1999 financial crisis : National : Home</p>

<p>points out that the lowest 20 percent of the South Korean population makes "an average per capita income of $5,982 per year--a wage that is the equivalent of the average wage earner in Gabon (in Africa) or Costa Rica (in Central America).</p>

<p>I personally think Bautista's Cuba is probably an appropriate analogy--that's almost the equivalent of the analogy that was used in the article above.</p>

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<p>We can all come to one consensus : If your a student in Korea,japan, or china- Life ain't easy.</p>

87

<p>wow lol china has a 2 day 12 hour test and japan has a similiar structure</p>

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<p>futurenyustudent,</p>

<p>You talk of China buying our bad papers, they are in such a bad position that they might just miss double digit growth, whereas we are on the path to 10% unemployment.
Also, we depend on China to buy all of our foreign currency, so when the fed prints money to buy up Detroit, they but that money.</p>

<p>I personally know nothing of apartment prices in Korea, as I have only visited there three times. I must therefore take your word on that one. If Korea is sooo underdeveloped, then why is it on the IMF/CIA advanced economy list, and why is it one place behind GBR on the quality of life index? By respect I mean not being left alone and impoverished, so is the lack of family in this country. Why do they not deserve respect, for they, as you say have slaved for years on end, they are a testament to prevalence, they give people something to believe in?</p>

<p>Calcruzer,</p>

<p>Might I add that it is a well known fact that 95% of the United States' wealth is controlled by 5% of its population? Talk about income disparages, it really does seem as if the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Korea is a new developed nation, most developed nations experience such income distribution throughout and after industrialization. Korea is far, far less corrupt than Bautista's Cuba. We are talking about a regime so corrupt, our government would rather see a (then) potentially Communist regime take its place.</p>

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<p>Because change, along with death and taxes, are the only constants in life. Like they say in econ, adapt or die.</p>

<p>In the US, the average college graduate earns a living wage, not to mention the huge variance in cost of living. In Korea, the average college graduate is unemployed and everything's expensive everywhere. Huge difference. :rolleyes: At the top of the spectrum, the average Harvard grad is probably working at a large investment bank or management consultancy, or going to law/med school. In Korea, the average SNU grad is waiting tables at Outback Steakhouse. Again, big difference. 95% of jobs in Korea are non-salaried (pay an hourly wage). Income disparity's bound to happen, but it doesn't exist in the US to the degree it exists in Korea.</p>

<p>I'd like to know where you got that 95% figure from. The number I heard is 45%.</p>

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<p>참 세상 살다 별의 별 일이 있네요...</p>

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<p>I go to a Korean school, so most of my friends took the test. Though I am preparing for U.S. colleges, I have been with them the whole year. I have seen really not-studying friends go crazy with academics at least for this year. (Cancelling their cellphone, not even one access to the Internet, no playing, no social life, and just study as soon as they get up at 5~6, come to school until 7 and leave school at midnight, drop by at public libraries until 2~3 and come back home). These kids might look like nerds, but they WEREN'T. They were actually the most outgoing, and outrageous friends of mine(drinking frequently, going to night clubs, etc.).
I am still negative about one test determining the life of a student, and that partly takes the reason why I've decided to study abroad.</p>

<p>When the test date becomes closer and closer, they become REALLY REALLY REALLY nervous. actually, one of my friends just couldn't sleep the night before with the mosquitoes and the nervousness... He stayed up all night and he knew his day would turn out bad. He just couldn't concentrate on the tests, and finally, he has decided to study another year and try for the Korean SAT next year. (He will go through that Fing harsh year again, and I feel really sorry for him)
actually, most of the students choose to study another or even much more just to get good scores and go to GREAT colleges. (I've even seen many people doing that even though they were admitted to Seoul National University--Korea's BESTest BEST school-- just because they wanted to go to Seoul National University's Pre-Med.)</p>

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<p>futurenyustudent,</p>

<p>As I have said before I do no nothing of Korea's internal goings, I see facts. I live in Hong Kong, so believe me I know how the wealth is spread in Asian countries. As for the SNU grads, why dont they get jobs abroad? Surely employers know of these universities?
I will ask my econ teacher, he has told us this so many times though, history teacher also.</p>

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<p>Wealth</a> inequality in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
says here that it is top 10% holding 80% and 90% holding 20%. But I will still ask him k?</p>

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<p>Every economy is different. Korea's economic pie is much smaller per capita than the US's pie. So there's less tolerance for income/wealth disparity.</p>

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<p>South Korea is characterized mainly by income polarization, rather than income disparity. </p>

<p>Income polarization refers to a situation where the middle-class disappears--and where everyone falls into the two extremes--rich and poor.</p>

<p>P.S. This is not just my view, but the view of some major economists in South Korea--for example, read the pdf at this weblink:</p>

<p>[url=<a href="http://www.seriworld.org/03/wldKetV.html?&mn=E&mncd=0302&key=db20060410001&pubkey=db20060410001&seq=db20060410001&kdy=E5JjH5a6=&sectno=3%5DSERIWorld.org%5B/url"&gt;http://www.seriworld.org/03/wldKetV.html?&mn=E&mncd=0302&key=db20060410001&pubkey=db20060410001&seq=db20060410001&kdy=E5JjH5a6=&sectno=3]SERIWorld.org[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

<p>where they make the same conclusion--and also state that:</p>

<p>"Thus the government’s policy focus should be on restoring the middle-class rather than on income redistribution. It must seek growth that yields more jobs and income expansion."</p>

<p>The US has a problem with income disparity--although, it should be realized that in the US, until this year the economy has been growing dramatically, and the income levels have been rising for all groups--just not as fast for the "poor" as for the "rich" (especially during the past 8 years). This, and the economic collapse and Iraq war, led to Obama's election. Even the poor here in the US still make about $18,000 to $20,000 per year, versus Korea's $5200 per year.
However, the main conclusion made here in the US is that we need to work on improving the economy again--and in making sure that the benefits of a healthy economy go to the Middle Class and not just to the Upper Class (something Obama's campaigned on). </p>

<p>In Korea, the question is whether there will even be a middle class to help out in the near future.</p>

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<p>I see your point, however this does not mean they are a developing nation. You treat them as if they have a terribly corrupt dictator at their heads. They have no such thing.
I do believe if you are a poor farmer in Korea your cost of living is far below that of the poor in the United States.</p>

<p>The reason the middle class is in trouble is that, well I believe this anyway, they overextended themselves. Not everyone needs to have a house. People were taking out money to buy these houses,the values were skyrocketing, they would take the gains on the house and buy another even. That is greed in its core. Buying what you KNOW you cannot buy. It is foolish. People forgot the trend, what goes up does indeed have to go down. The Chinese government has been regulating their growth by increasing interest rates (and all the other fiscal/moneteary...) to stop their growth from going out of control. We had a large boom, now we are in a large slump (now a recession) and there is even talk of a depression the likes of which we have not seen in a hundred years.
We need to reestablish the middle class' position and get them out of the mountain of debt they are in for consumer spending to rise. Hopefully Obama will keep his word.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
You treat them as if they have a terribly corrupt dictator at their heads

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</p>

<p>They might as well. You wouldn't believe some of the crap that politicians get away with. Tax evasion being one of the many, many things they get away with. Corruption, bribery, et cetera. Politicians in Korea might as well be above the law.</p>

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<p>sounds so scary...although i think there are trade-offs between the "one test" vs the "many factors, many extracurriculars, and subjectivity"</p>

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<p>Chehk, If i were you, I'd try to get my econ teacher fired ASAP. Because apparently you're learning it all wrong. You speak of the corrupt dictatorship in Korea as if it were just an illusion- are you mad? You also mentioned the "over-extension" of average Korean families, and you label them as greedy- but do you have ANY idea what conditions their living under? They're certainly not relaxing in a urban town houses, i can tell you that. Please, do us a favor and stop posting. The saddest part is, you seem to believe what you are saying. You treat the situation in Korea as if it was tantamount to the economic recession in the U.S. </p>

<p>Quote : "We need to reestablish the middle class' position and get them out of the mountain of debt"</p>

<p>That made me LOL.</p>