<p>“obnoxious know-it-all egocentrics”</p>
<p>Professors, sure. But being a high school guidance counselor is not a path that attracts a lot of egomaniacs, nor does it build/nurture them. This is a thankless field. I don’t disagree that there are plenty of GCs who don’t know what they are doing (just like plenty of the teachers and plenty of the nutritionists). But boy, it’s not a career you enter for the glory and admiration.</p>
<p>^ All the more reason to replace them with software.</p>
<p>I have never heard a single example of a GC offering an inspired, off-the-wall college suggestion that really fit the student, or a well thought-out strategy resulting in unexpectedly good outcomes. Granted, most kids just want someplace local and cheap. The smarter, more ambitious ones probably like to do their own research in most cases. But even at the pricey private schools where we sent our kids, the GCs were pretty unhelpful. I am not sure why. Considering how many adults seem to find College Confidential addictive, you’d think at least a few people who are paid to do this work would have more of a passion for it. Maybe the ones who do tend to move on to other things.</p>
<p>“Some parents would sue the guidance counselor if they told the B student that he had no chance at Harvard.”</p>
<p>@@ Sue for what? </p>
<p>I think High School College Counselors do have a very tough job. Teenagers are notoriously unrealistic, especially those who have yet to face any sort of disappointment in their lives. When they are coupled with parents who perpetuate the unrealism, these counselors have to be the bearer of bad news so that the student ends up with some choices come Spring.</p>
<p>Having said that, now that we have Naviance, and every college publishes a Common Data Set, the counselor does have a lot of ammunition. I mean what parent can argue with cold, hard facts? You can show the student/parents in one screen shot their approximate chances of being admitted to any one school. Now with recruited athletes there might be a little more leeway, but the stats and graphs are there staring you in the face.</p>
<p>If the parent or student still insists on applying to only 4 or 5 tippy top schools which are not supported by the child’s academic record, I would simply put my recommendations in writing and make sure it finds its way into their file. Then move on to the next student.</p>
<p>I am sure these counselors are more than frustrated being told how wrong they are every day. Then in the vast majority of cases they turn out to be right. I would find that cycle frustrating and de-moralizing.</p>
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<p>Emotional distress??</p>
<p>One would hope that counselors also tell students to “talk to your parents and run the net price calculators on the web sites of all of the colleges you are considering”.</p>
<p>It isn’t like a generation ago when state universities were barely more expensive than community colleges, and they were less selective than now, so many more students had them as realistic cheap safety options (that they could commute to if necessary) even at list price.</p>
<p>I thought the comments were amusing. </p>
<p>I don’t see their comment as intentionally mean-spririted. They’re more the comments that pop up in the back of your head… </p>
<p>I’d say we have ALL had a comment like this pop up in the back of our heads whether it be talking to a customer, family member or friend, telemarketer, cashier, etc. </p>
<p>I agree, Niquii. The unfortunate thing is they were published in the newspaper. Some things are better left in the back of your head or shared in a closed circle where everyone gets that. </p>
<p>I think it would be even more amusing/revealing if it were possible to briefly summarize the students comments or observations/expectations and compare them to the students documented body of work. After all, that is what these comments are reflecting. </p>
<p>Years ago a brother of an acquaintance announced that his brother was going to go to law school at the University of Michigan. This was before he had graduated from college, which, if I recall correctly, was a junior/community college in the rust belt. I just replied “wow…that’s great.”</p>
<p>Although these things can make chuckle or laugh out loud, the absence of any sense of academic/career opportunities and how they mesh with ones own course selection and achievement is regrettable. </p>
<p>“I mean what parent can argue with cold, hard facts?”</p>
<p>You might be surprised. The facts are a lot colder and harder with law school admission, yet I’ve been fired on the spot more than once for showing a parent and student (age 22+) that a group of law schools was out of reach.</p>
<p>I would argue that being HS GC is a much harder job if you are passionate about it and good at it. Watching a student you care about face disappointment or make bad choices is tough. If you don’t care, you don’t care.</p>
<p>I’m still puzzled about why the fact that these comments were published in a newspaper is upsetting. Is it the idea that high school kids or their parents may read them and be able to identify the ones made about their own children (or themselves) or is it the general idea that GCs may be blowing off steam amongst themselves by making fun of the more unrealistic/delusional ones?</p>
<p>FWIW, I think that few high school students are likely to be reading these sort of articles in the paper.</p>
<p>Perhaps this doesn’t sit with me well because I’m a senior who has just finished applying to college - and I know that a lot of my personal life was shared with college counselors through essays and guidance counselor recommendation letters - I’d hate to think that an entire office of people is laughing at me because I was “naive” enough to believe that a 2000 SAT and 3.8 gave me a decent shot at most schools bar the Ivy League. Hrumph. </p>
<p>I don’t think my college counselor liked me very much or had high hopes for me. He probably had to bite his tongue a few times. He kept on suggesting schools like Rochester and Syracuse after I told him I had no interest in going to school in upstate NY (with Cornell as an exception). He didn’t sound very enthusiastic about my decision to apply to several Ivy league/other top schools and mentioned that another girl in my class had applied to my ED school a day before decisions were released.</p>
<p>But the joke is on him because I got into my top choice ED school though he seemed like he was having trouble hiding his surprise. Fast forward four years later, when I emailed my research advisor to tell him that I got into one of my top choice grad schools ranked number 1 in my field (with a fancy fellowship), his response was “Great news, I am happy for you but not surprised.”</p>
<p>My sister had a similar experience in HS. She had a LD that had not been adequately addressed, and was an average student. Nonetheless, she was determined to go to college. She was devastated when her HS GC told her that she wasn’t “college material.” My sis ignored the advice of her GC, got accepted to an OOS flagship, graduated with honors, and went on to get a MBA. She sent a copy of her degrees back to her GC! </p>
<p>This is not to say that college is for everyone. Unfortunately, however, in many large public HSs, there is often little to no actual college counseling. And, GCs don’t have the time to get to know their students. In my sister’s case, if the GC had known her, she would have known that my sister was highly motivated, intelligent, and very diligent despite her less than stellar grades (which were brought down by testing issues). </p>
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<p>I’d say you need to get over yourself. Didn’t you ever laugh about the teacher behind his/her back?</p>
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I note again that this thread is about what guidance counselors think and say about students behind their backs–and some people are concerned that a newspaper ran an article excerpting those comments. So if a newspaper wanted to run an article about what students and parents think about guidance counselors, it could generate a scathing one based on many comments here on this publicly accessible website. Just sayin’.</p>
<p>I think the comments were funny and a way for stressed-out GCs to blow off some steam. For a similar thread on CC written by prep school applicants see
<a href=“Bad Rejection Letters - Prep School Cafe - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-cafe/1616043-bad-rejection-letters-p1.html</a></p>
<p>We’ve been lucky to have strong college counseling. Our first child’s GC put quite a few schools on his list that we didn’t know and others we wouldn’t have thought of as matches for him. To my mind that’s one of the marks of good college counseling. Anyone can find great aspirational schools. The trick is to find good likely schools. </p>
<p>Fast forward two years and one of the same college showed up on child #2’s list. I don’t think she’ll end up applying but apparently when she and her friends were discussing their lists of suggested schools some of her classmates made fun of the this school because they’d never heard of it. I was please to hear my child had the good sense to snap back, “[X school] has one of the best programs in the country for . Just because YOU haven’t heard of it doesn’t mean it’s not a great school.”</p>
<p>I continue to be amazed at the people who have NO clue at what is realistic. We attended an athletic event a few night ago where the participants were introduced with what their college plans are. Keep in mind, these are seniors and this is February. One had announced that he was undecided but would be playing football for either Nebraska or Western Carolina. Does he seriously think Nebraska doesn’t have their line up for next year (and for a kid I had never even known played football and I am a big football fan). Another announced he would be wrestling for either Iowa or Penn State- both among the VERY best wrestling schools in the nation. I have about as good a chance as wrestling for them as he does and I am in my 50s and female!</p>
<p>or parents posting on facebook (they still are!) mediocre stats and high reach college lists…</p>
<p>They are head-smack moments and no kids were identified. Not even regions of the country. No disabilities, no deaths, I did laugh. Are we supposed to have some new PC rule about crazy things some kids/parents expect? Any of you ever pm with another poster about a frustrating thread? </p>
<p>But yes, we should be cautious. </p>