<p>I am a college professor, and I can attest to the fact that 99% of all "bad" university decisions stem directly from parents making decisions for students, rather than letting students make their choices. Parents should be guides in the selection process, and not dominate, but....bless their hearts, they love their kids so, and so want them to succeed they will make decisions for them.</p>
<p>The result, more often than not, is a surly, sullen teen being drug around by parents with a thousand questions. When the paresnt are asking more questions than the kid -- uh oh.</p>
<p>I was struck by a comment I saw in another college discussion I was in:</p>
<p>"I'm the parent of a high school senior and it's hard not to get sucked into the prestige school trap. Let's face it, we want the easiest life possible for our kids, and if some schools open more doors than others, then I want my baby at the door opener school. I know a kid who graduated from a good private college, not Ivy, summa cum laude with degree in history. He'd have an easier time getting arrested than getting a job. The big companies and top banks and investment banks have a roster of schools they recruit from and that's it..."</p>
<p>A: more than likely exaggerated a bit</p>
<p>B: SO? Is that the only route to happiness? Is it even a route to happiness at all?</p>
<p>Parents, kids...deep breaths. It is really not about your parents' happiness. It's about YOURS.</p>
<p>daviscn, I don't know if you have spent much time on this forum. The initial assumption is often that most parents on a college forum are pushing and leading their kids. I think you will actually find - at least on this forum - that the opposite is true. Many of us have kids who are very determined to understand the college selection, admissions, application and acceptance processes. As parents we are often considerably behind them - not pushing, but trying to keep up. You will also find that there are endless discussions about the prestige schools and most parents are more concerned about the academic and cultural fit.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reminder to parents attending college visits with kids--
Let your kid ask the questions. (You don't want your kid to be remembered as the one with the really obnoxious mom. . .)</p>
<p>However, there is nothing wrong with parents asking questions--especially about financial matters. If parents are paying, they have the right to ask.</p>
<p>I can remember going on an 8-hour train ride with my own mother (back in 1979) to an interview at U. Richmond, where I'd been waitlisted. I had already been accepted to Lehigh, Bucknell and Gettysburg, and would have been happy at all three. I resented the trip, and felt awkward during the interview because I honestly didn't want to attend.
Years later, I asked my mother why they had pushed Richmond so much, and her answer was "I don't know, I guess because Mr. P___ (my guidance counselor) recommended it." I think another reason was because my father thought I could have used some southern "gentility," though they'd never admit to that!<br>
My husband will be the first to admit that he knew almost NOTHING of the schools he applied to back then, and admits that part of the reason he applied to Colgate was because they had their own golf course! Lucky for us, our S. was very thorough, did a lot of research, and had a very good idea of what he was looking for. He didn't really need much guidance from us, though we certainly felt free to give our opinions. I def. agree with edad and atomom--- everyone has some input.</p>
<p>What do you think about kids who go on the college visits by themselves? I am just wondering whether it is such an odd occurance, that the kids really stands out. Due to money issues, my son has done his college visits alone (in tandem with other activities). Probably a good thing, since he seems to ask far more questions when I am not around.</p>
<p>For tours and information sessions, I don't know if they're even aware of the kids being alone or not. Most we attended had a minimum of 50 people, usually many more. We dropped S off at a campus so he could spend the day and sit in on a class or two, but don't know if being alone mattered. Think he enjoyed it, though!</p>
<p>We have gone with DS on most of the initial college visits, partly because we each tend to look at different aspects of the tour/campus/fit. The main reason, though, is that we have done these trips as part of family vacations. As far as visiting classes, he goes alone. We've discussed whether a second trip (for an interview or sleepover) would be entriely solo (or one parent goes and hangs out elsewhere). Accepted student weekends will definitely be solo. </p>
<p>If a kid doesn't like the rigamarole of flying/taking the train and schlepping solo to a different part of the country, that's an important piece of data to have before one commits to a school.</p>
<p>On the other hand, he's been on the road since he was eight weeks old and is a seasoned traveler, so I don't think it would be an issue.</p>
<p>As a person who has been an adjunct at various points in life I went into the process with my son #1 with eyes wide open. I too did not want the look and the 'tude. My heart longed for Dartmouth as I've always had a "thing" for the Dartmouth boys, but with grades, test scores and budget in hand we looked for the "next best things". Started with a list of 15 and S got down to 4, yes only 4, of which one my S was not at all interested in but my H and I pushed (the state U). Went on two visits w/S but the third, he went on his own. The 4th, state U, he flat out said he wasn't going to officially visit and and wouldn't "go to" even if he got in -- too big, too impersonal, too well, just too whatever. Well of course he picked the school he visited on his own and I've never seen. He is flat out happy with his decision, and I'm flat out glad it's all done. S is "like" "so what if I have to change planes 3 times to get there!" I get a year or so off then on to son #2. Anyone who has half a brain cell of intelligence understands that while a name brand college may open some doors it is not a predictor of lifetime happiness and success. Anyone with a few brain cells knows that book smarts doesn't always equate to life smarts. Life is what it is - constant forks in the road and political road bumps. And last don't ever assume a vocal minority speaks for a majority --even on this foum. Best of all, we discovered there are some really cool profs living in really cool places with really cool colleges that are mere blips on the radar screen.</p>
<p>I wonder what college the OP is at. I do not agree at all with the OP. These must be children and not young adults. Most college bound students are quite savvy re: college choices and preferences.</p>
<p>Boy, I've been hanging around here for some time and I think there are some pushers. I'm even afraid I've been too directive of my own kid (only afraid if he doesn't get in someplace he feels he "should" and that I've maybe made out to be desireable without meaning to be directive). On the threads discussing prestige schools, there are definitely people who think there's only one best way to go and it's spelled HYP or SMC or AWS. Like you're not going to get an intelligent peer group anywhere else...??</p>
<p>I don't agree with the OP. 99% is way too high of a stat. I have seen many, many kids make their own bad decision, often with the parents biting their tongues. I have seen kids who have owned pretty much the entire college choosing process, and botched it badly. Not to say that a parent should take over the process and pick the colleges, and/or the ultimate destination, but I do not believe that MOST parents are harmful with their input. There are alot of unreasonable, unrealistic kids out there, whether is is for college fit, college eligibility, college affordability. Some need parental guidelines and realty checks. </p>
<p>Parents who "force" a kid to go to a particular college do run the risk of being the whipping boy if things don't work out there, and there is also that possibility that the kid would sabotage his year there if the resentment is so great. But I know enough kids who were pushed into their colleges that did end up blooming there, that it is not such a black and white issue. I know a friend of mine who basically told her son that for him to go to the larger state unis that he wanted, he had to commute to a local school for a year and get a respectable grade point, because she felt very strongly that he would not do well in such an environment because of long time issues in highschool. In fact, he had such a requirement, entering senior year, and did not make the mark. He begrudgingly went to a small religiously affiliated school that was the farthest away from home out of those schools that she permitted, and though did not do that well freshman year, did well enough to graduate with a respectable gpa in 4 years. He was given the option to apply for a transfer, sophomore year when he hit the 3.0 threshhold that Mom required, but he chose to stay, and is glad that he went there. All of his pals who were the similar type who did end up going to the larger state u system, flunked out, dropped out, etc. They did exactly what they wanted to do instead of what was optimal for their success.</p>
<p>When it comes to the prestige factor I think the kids are often worse than the parents. At least my D was. She applied to two Ivies simply due to prestige. She had not visited and had virtually no chance for admission. A third Ivy she visited. It did not have a program that matched her interests but she applied anyway.</p>
<p>I do admit when it came to campus visits, we probably crossed the line -- more than once. For each tour, my W did advance research and contacted individual departments to arrange departmental tours and interviews. I am not sure my D would have had the ability to make these arrangements but equally important this could only be done during business hours, when my D was in school.</p>
<p>Yes, I think the kids are worse about the prestige thing, but some parents are pretty sold on it too. I don't see helping a kid as pushing. The kids are busy enough with HS and ECs that I wouldn't expect them to arrange logistics of college visits, etc. Again, every kid is different and every family is different. What may look like inappropriate pushing could be the limit-setting some kid needs. </p>
<p>One of the reasons I hang around on cc (other than being addicted) is that tossing around these ideas helps me examine my beliefs and behavior. So it doesn't matter if the OP is right; it just starts a discussion that anyone is free to join or stay out of.</p>
<p>I agree. I also think those of us who have been through the difficult college process have perspectives and experiences that might be helpful for kids and parents in the midst of the process. Clearly there are a lot of different opinions and approaches.</p>
<p>edad: I totally agree with you. I can't imagine my son having time to do the research and make the travel arrangements I have made for him. He is so busy with school and soccer and scouts and when he has a weekend off he'd rather hang with his garage band than look at college web sites. It's possible that I am being too analytical about this, but I am hoping that I am giving him the data he needs to choose wisely. Most of the kids in his high school are going to a UC. The schools I am researching are not visible to my son from his conversations with other kids. I remember when I was in high school picking schools based on what I heard other kids talking about. Not a very good way to do it. Thankfully, my dad happened to mention this engineering school he heard about while stationed in Houston during the war. Otherwise, I would have been at Georgia Tech with 10,000 students of whom 200 were women.</p>
<p>Yup! That's me! The obnoxious parent dragging around a sullen teenager. Here's why: My son is a B/C student in an extremely competitive public high school. He is a hard worker but has organizational and concentration problems. His initial college list was Cornell, Harvard, William and Mary, University of Virginia...(you get the picture). Despite many gentle discussions with his guidance counselor and us, he refused to consider or visit any school that might accept him. He only wanted to visit Harvard and Cornell. Finally I put my foot down. Visit some of the schools his counselor recommended or no computer games on the weekends! Naturally his attitude was poor and I was the one asking questions. But a miracle happened on the fifth visit to a college. He asked a question. On the next visit, he actually talked to some students and a professor. Today (to make a long story short), he has been accepted to three of the schools his counselor recommended and he can't wait to go!</p>
<p>Yorkyfan, Congratulations to you and your son! Perhaps you could share the list of schools that you visited and schools that your GC suggested. There are so many parents of B/C students looking for suggestions.</p>
<p>Our SS (twins) have known since they were in grade school where they wanted to go to college. They planned to apply ED. Our fear, of course, was that it wouldn't happen and they needed to select other schools. Due to their sports' schedules, we could not schedule any college visits until this past summer. They did not want to go, but my H and I bribed them with a side trip. We visited 4 universities, one of which was the "dream school". We all learned something during the visits. I learned to keep my opinions to myself. My H and I learned that the boys really knew what they were looking for - no ivies, a medium-sized school located outside of the city. We all learned that the "dream school" was a perfect fit and that they had best get started on the essays.</p>