<p>I was also a little surprised by the hostility over the question. After all, so many people on CC love to complain how recruited athletes with inferior credentials are being admitted to HYPS etc. over students with much better academic stats. While I’m not suggesting this is the OP’s situtaion though it might be, but why should it surprise them that perhaps a parent of such an athlete who is allegedly only getting in because he can run fast or kick a ball would want to know at which top school her allegedly under-prepared S/D could best succeed?</p>
<p>
Oops, sorry for not posting it earlier. Harvard gives the top 50% of each class honors, so it stands to reason that the cum laude cut-off is the average GPA. </p>
<p>[Harvard</a> University FAS Registrar’s Office: Eligibility for Honors Degrees](<a href=“http://www.registrar.fas.harvard.edu/fasro/ugrad/honors.jsp?cat=ugrad&subcat=registration]Harvard”>http://www.registrar.fas.harvard.edu/fasro/ugrad/honors.jsp?cat=ugrad&subcat=registration)</p>
<p>I think Johns Hopkins would be tradionally thought of as one of the toughest. However even there the average GPA is 3.23 as cited here [Grade</a> inflation a national trend - News & Features](<a href=“http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2009/03/05/NewsFeatures/Grade.Inflation.A.National.Trend-3662935.shtml]Grade”>http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2009/03/05/NewsFeatures/Grade.Inflation.A.National.Trend-3662935.shtml)
Now this is indeed less than the Ivys but not nearly as bad as its reputation.
However, there is no breakdown of sciences versus humainties versus engineering grades.</p>
<p>You can see data and comparison charts on many schools’ average GPA data here - there are also links to many schools’ GPA data over time if you scroll to the bottom:
[National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.gradeinflation.com/]National”>http://www.gradeinflation.com/)</p>
<p>Easy and hard are realtive. Any college can be easy if all you want is a "C. " However, if you want that “A,” you had better be willing to do a LOT of work! And this doesn’t necessarily mean that the material is hard, just that there is a LOT of work - reading, labs, outside assignments, etc. You had better put Amherst on the list as hard, as well. The amount of work to get an “A” is huge!</p>
<p>“Oops, sorry for not posting it earlier. Harvard gives the top 50% of each class honors, so it stands to reason that the cum laude cut-off is the average GPA.”</p>
<p>That’s not how I read it. It says not more than 50 % graduate cum laude, which means it can be significantly lower. Also, 50% gives a median not average gpa.</p>
<p>
That’s not the case. Out of the 1564 graduates in 2008, 784 (50.1%) were awarded honors (excluding cum laude in general studies, which are not included in the 50% allotment).</p>
<p>[357th</a> Commencement: Harvard confers 6,966 degrees and 104 certificates — The Harvard University Gazette](<a href=“http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2008/06.05/42-degrees.html]357th”>http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2008/06.05/42-degrees.html)</p>
<p>
In my dreams, TheGFG, in my dreams…:)</p>
<p>
Thanks, blossom, for letting me know. That makes sense.</p>
<p>“If they all earn an A, it is not a sign of a problem, but of success… But maybe I’m just a hopeless idealist.” Tom Tritton, President, Haverford College
Average GPA at Haverford is a 3.42</p>
<p>years ago I taught groups of very bright, well qualified Japanese students
at a local college. They obviously knew a lot more coming in than the
American students but over the long haul most of them didn’t do very well.
They often explained to me that, at that time, in Japan the goal was to
do well in high school to get into college, and then they would slack off.
They were often unprepared for the level of academic competition and
were often outperformed by less prepared American students. they took
it for granted. I have sometimes wondered if that isn’t the case for
many students at our top colleges. I spent some time at a top LAC and
sometimes it seemed like the students didn’t really understand that what
they did in high school was expected to continue at an even higher level
in college. They were committed to getting in, not getting out. Years ago
I read a comment about Wooster, not a top 50 school, something like,
easy to get into, hard to graduate from. I like that philosophy.</p>
<p>I prefer the opposite (almost). Hard to get into, easy to graduate from, hard to excel in.</p>
<p>To me “easy to graduate from” ensures that students can explore various interests and lifestyles without being paranoid that they’ll flunk out, while “hard to excel in” ensures that those who strive for excellence are recognized for their achievement.</p>
<p>^Good post. When people talk about their Ivy experiences, they seem to be saying just that.</p>
<p>D, who just graduated from Pomona, can attest to the fact that the College is not easy. The reason why folks get good grades is because everyone works so hard. That’s why they were accepted in the first place! :)</p>
<p>In the case of Harvard, it’s extremely likely that the mean is a bit lower than the median, simply because the left-hand side of the curve has a much longer tail. In other words, you can graduate with a GPA that’s more than a full point below the median, but you can’t do the same in the positive direction. My guess is that the mean is somewhere in the 3.3’s.</p>
<p>This might be different at a college that allows A+'s, which Harvard does not.</p>
<p>I am surprised no one mentioned the service academies.
Once you are in some of the toughest colleges to graduate from are the service academies. West Point, The Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy all have rigor, curriculum, stress and pressure that are right up there with MIT and Cal Tech. </p>
<p>They are hard to get into, hard to graduate from and very difficult to excel in.</p>
<p>Is it in fact true that it’s difficult to graduate from the service academies? What is their graduation rate? As with the top selective academic schools, I would expect students at the service academies to be highly motivated individuals.</p>
<p>The academies used to have a 25-50% drop out rate. I don’t know if that is still true.</p>
<p>Online sources put USNA and USMA graduation rates in the mid-80’s, which is very strong for a public school, and way higher than the Citadel (60’s) and VMI (low 70s). I don’t doubt that they are extremely difficult to graduate from in an objective sense, but they do a good job of screening the candidates from the get-go and selecting those who have the skills to succeed.</p>
<p>According to a website that purports to give this info, the graduation rate at Annapolis is 87%, West Point is 84%, Air Force is 77%. So Annapolis is about the same as U. Michigan. Cornell is about 92%, the other Ivies higher.</p>