<p>
I think the opposite is true, which is why I think caution is needed before changing standards of proof, etc. There’s a greater and greater realization that there is a serious problem–but the inherent proof issues make it a difficult problem to address. I think it’s true that the prevalence of casual sex makes the proof issues much greater–the crime is similar in many respects to non-criminal behavior.</p>
<p>Why do you all believe the girl? Any “innocent until proven guilty” for the guy?</p>
<p>I can imagine 1000 circumstances, when a girl may want to hurt a guy by filing a bogus report. Any evidence that she is telling the truth?</p>
<p>To everyone, who suggested to call police … most likely, the police was called, but had no evidence to prosecute the guy.</p>
<p>Go read Title IX, straight from the OCR, caiforniaa. You’ll see how the expectations of a college slightly differ from those out in the ordinary world. And how things are meant to progress. </p>
<p>It doesn’t matter if you can imagine 1 million scenarios. What matters is dealing with various forms of aggression and what protections and processes are meant to be in place.</p>
<p>What if a girl is bulling guy with this lawsuit? Where are the boys rights for due process? </p>
<p>Remember “To Kill a Mockingbird ?” To every girl that cries “rape” was raped.</p>
<p>I misspelled. </p>
<p>NOT every girl that cries “rape” was raped.</p>
<p>The discussion is about protecting women, listening to victims and appropriate punishments for perpetrators.<br>
Let us know you are familiar with the various details discussed here, the links and the background govt regulations for colleges. </p>
<p>It’s distracting to have to read speculations.</p>
<p>You are believing woman who cries “sexual assault”, even though police is silent on the case. </p>
<p>How do you know, that the girl is the victim? Based on the newspaper article? Remembering the Duke lacrosse case … </p>
<p>If I would have a son, I would be scared …</p>
<p>appropriate punishments for perpetrators should come through legal system.</p>
<p>Most sexual assaults go unreported. So you can reassure yourself that there are a lot more perpetrators who are getting away with it than there are people improperly accused/convicted. Of course, it is wrong to claim rape if it didn’t happen. But if you are actually worried about justice not being served, you should concern yourself with the countless women who are too scared to press charges and must live with the knowledge that their rapists are out walking the streets without any consequence for their actions.</p>
<p>Or sitting in the same classrooms while their rapists hunt for new victims.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that there are many, many more cases of rapists going free than men being falsely punished for rape, but that doesn’t justify evening the score by punishing someone disproportionately or without sufficient evidence. </p>
<p>Every case has to be judged on its merits. Unfortunately, as Hunt said, rape, unlike most other serious crimes, can resemble a perfectly legal act. Even in a world with no sexism or double-standards about sex, it would still be really hard to meet a reasonable (never mind legal) burden of proof in a lot of acquaintance-rape scenarios, especially after some time has passed. </p>
<p>In this case, we really have no idea how serious the man’s behavior was. Was he stalking her and shouting vulgar epithets, or was he being overly pushy after a break-up? Was he threatening her with violence, or did he call her a “b*tch” in the midst of a verbal confrontation? Was the physical intimidation grabbing the victim and holding her down, or was it standing in front of a doorway so she couldn’t leave a room during an argument? The latter is bad, but not, in my opinion, expulsion bad. </p>
<p>At the more mild end of what was still very bad behavior, a one semester suspension with instructions to stay away from the student in question sounds like a reasonable call. Based on some second-hand experience of situations where people have been suspended mid-semester, any grades earned before the suspension in that semester are vacated; it is as if you were gone for the entire period. If that is the case, which I suspect it is, the student did lose a semester, although I think it would have been better if Yale had let him finish out the spring and suspended him for the fall.</p>
<p>Basically, I can’t judge without knowing more facts that aren’t likely to come out.</p>
<p>apprenticprof said most of what I wanted to say–but I just wanted to note that whether you think one in 10 reports of rape are false, or one in one thousand are false, you still need to have a fair procedure in place to determine guilt and apportion punishment. I happen to think the procedure we use in the criminal law system, with all its faults, makes a pretty good balance.</p>
<p>Legal system is not perfect, but it’s the best instrument available.</p>
<p>Honestly, does anyone thinks that a girl would report rape to college administration, but not to police? Any reason for it? </p>
<p>I’ve read about a number of cases, when a girl went to police, was told that she doesn’t have enough evidence to prosecute the guy in the court of law, than went to college administration that has a very lax understanding of the due process. </p>
<p>Imagine, what a boy feels like if he was falsely accused of rape. And he has to continue studying in the same college with the accuser, probably, in the same classroom.</p>
<p>Parents of sons … aren’t you scared that your boy may be falsely accused? (I have daughters only, BTW).</p>
<p>I have a son and a daughter. My fear of her being assaulted is about 100 times greater than my fear of him being falsely accused. That doesn’t mean I have no concern about false accusations–far from it, as my posts will attest. But it appears to me that the risks to young women are much greater. And I think college women report to the college because that’s what the college encourages them to do.</p>
<p>While I’m concerned about due process, I think it’s important to be realistic about the risks–and about potential solutions.</p>
<p>OK, I admit that I grew up in a rough neighborhood, where girls were assaulted. If police is not corrupt or prejudice, rape would be reported.</p>
<p>I am more concerned about due process, because in a situation, where “she said - he said”, boys have no venues to defend themselves.</p>
<p>Californiaa, I feel that you don’t do any research or verification before you tell us what you think happens or how things go or what is wrong. </p>
<p>On campus, there are expectations for procedure, mandated by the govt. You can read them online, they are easy to find and clear. Title IX, as clarified by the OCR, Office of Civil Rights. Colleges receiving fed aid are required to have a corresponding policy in place. Yale’s is linked in this thread. Most can be found via google.</p>
<p>Yale, eg, encourages complainants to feel free to contact local police or other authorities, to continue pursuing the matter. But the colleges are required to take complaints seriously and act (per standards.)</p>
<p>It occurs to me in thinking about this some more that a woman who has been assaulted faces a difficult choice in reporting. Unless she is willing to call the police immediately, go to the ER, and get a rape kit, it’s not very likely that reporting to the actual police will result in punishment of the perpetrator, especially if there are no witnesses and any element of he-said-she-said. If she does report to the actual police, and the person is eventually convicted of a crime, the punishment is serious.
On the other hand, it appears that if she reports to the college, it is more likely that some consequences will flow to the perpetrator, because the standard of proof is less–but the consequences may not be that severe, as we saw in this case.
If my daughter called me after an incident like this and asked me what she should do, I’d have to say that it depends on the specific facts.</p>
<p>to lookingforward,</p>
<p>In the blog mingingthecampus, KS Johnson has a very interesting discussion about college due diligence. </p>
<p>In many colleges,
<p>KS Johnson is the Prof. of History. He made a name, when he exposed a scandal behind accusation of Duke lacrosse players. I read his blog … it is really scary to read.</p>
<p>You are right, I am not an expert. I have DDs…</p>
<p>Could you please help me to envision a situation, when a raped girl would NOT
“call the police immediately, go to the ER, and get a rape kit”. ?</p>
<p>Just hypothetically, what are the scenarios?</p>
<ol>
<li><p>She is intoxicated and doesn’t remember clearly (OK, still possible to call police next day. Intoxicated person will be, probably, sleeping … evidence won’t be destroyed).</p></li>
<li><p>Corrupt and prejudice police. </p></li>
<li><p>Girl is far away from home, can’t find help immediately (I think, police would accept this explanation).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Anything else?</p>
<ol>
<li>Because people like you wouldn’t believe her even if what she said happened was 100% true. And, sadly, there are lots of people like you.</li>
</ol>