<p>Sometimes the online applications are free, where you pay a fee for a paper application at the same college. My son preferred paper applications with which he could submit attachments. He only did online applications for 2 reasons - the college required it, or because we could waive the application fee.</p>
<p>babar:</p>
<p>I will try to do that sometime in the next week or so on the Otterbein thread. We open our first summer theatre production on Thursday, so it could be next weekend before I get to it. But I will try.</p>
<p>While Doctorjohn was joking about not putting on an application that you really want to attend college A when you send the app to college B (though it is a half joke because some kids do DO this!!)....it brings into play that doing one's applications in a generic fashion is not ideal. It is very important to gear an application to the school to which you apply. The college/program should be on your list for very specific solid reasons and the college should have been fully and deeply explored. The student needs to express SPECIFIC interest in that school and why that school is a good fit for what the student wants in a college and/or program. If the student cannot articulate that (and I have seen many who CANNOT), it makes one wonder why they are applying there. If I can wonder that in reading their application, imagine an adcom reading it. The statement about why one wants to attend the college should NOT be interchangeable with the statement sent to another college. If the statements/essays on that topic ARE interchangeable, it says something. And like Doctorjohn observes....to have a student, for example, say they like Otterbein as they would not have to take any liberal arts classes, only shows that they have NOT explored the college deeply or looked to see how the school matches up with their personal college criteria. </p>
<p>I see many students create a college list of "schools that have BFA in MT programs" with no regard to fit with their personal preferences, personal college criteria, no regard to fit with their credentials, and without much exploration of the school or program. If asked to state why they want to attend, they cannot come up with much that is too specific. When colleges have very low admit rates to these programs, and too many talented students who would be considered based on their audition, than slots available, there are elements of the application such as this that come into play. The time and effort put into creating the right list, crafting an excellent application, on top of the academic stats and audition, is very important. Trying to find the easiest way to fill in all the applications and get them done just doesn't cut it when admissions is this competitive. Remember that adcoms are reading TONS of applications. There are huge differences in how these are filled out. Something to think about. I've seen ones really well done and others that would make me question whether to accept the student. The colleges ask for these applications for a reason. They do count. Colleges accept PEOPLE, not just "stats" and talent.</p>
<p>That is exactly what I have strugged to articulate. Thank you. Colleges accept PEOPLE, not just "stats" and talent. I totally believe this.</p>
<p>And while the audition is certainly a MAJOR critical piece, there are many more talented students than they have room for and so all these other pieces and facets of a student come into play and set one talented person apart from another. It is a wholistic process. BFA programs would not bother with recommendations, academic stats, essays, etc. etc. if they didn't care at all about those pieces. Those pieces alone don't get a student into the program but when the audition is stellar enough, the other aspects are considered as they are accepting a student not just for his/her talent but for all that person is and can be and how that person matches up with their program. Use the applications to show the schools who you are. The applications are important, not just the audition. An application won't get you in if the audition is not great but when there are many with great auditions, all the other aspects of a candidate are evaluated. These other pieces are thus important....be it doing your best in academics, activities, essays, recs, personal traits, specific demonstrated interest in the program, etc. Lots of people can sing, dance and act, but the school wants to accept people who they really wish to work with and who they feel fit the school/program and who they feel can succeed there in all aspects of the curriculum. The candidate's job is to SHOW who they are so the school can decide if the candidate is a person they wish to have join their program (in all respects).</p>
<p>Lots of good info and suggestions in this thread. My D took a slightly different approach at my suggestion. She used the online applications as a way to prepare a printed application (except for Emerson which required electronic submission). She also used the Common App with specific school suppliments for all schools that accepted the Common App.</p>
<p>Using the Common App provided for easy uniformity for all the "boilerplate" info required on applications. It provided a lot of convenience, simplified organization and avoided being inundated with multiple applications to track to completion. Also, H.S. report forms and teacher rec forms could be filled out online with the required identifying info once and then multiple copies printed. For most schools, however, supplimental apps were required. Keep in mind that with the Common App, both the App and suppliments must be submitted in the same fashion for a particular school (paper or electronic).</p>
<p>Where we did things a little differently, however, is that once the online applications were complete, we then printed them out and submitted them as hard copy (again, except for Emerson). Completing the applications online was a tremendous convenience. No typewriters, no incomplete drafts to keep organized, all the convenience of a "paperless office". Printing them out, as soozievt pointed out earlier, enabled my D to submit a customized cover letter and resume. We printed out 2 copies so we had one for our college binders. We also were able to send the apps by certified mail return receipt requested so that we had proof of receipt. And, given that many schools themselves print out electronic apps for their hard copy files that are circulated during the admissions process, we felt this process enabled us to see and review what the schools would actually have in hand. What we discovered was that when the apps were printed out, oftentimes the formatting, particularly of essays and imported text, became screwed up. By printing out the applications, we were able to make adjustments to get a proper finished product. So if you are going to submit apps electronically, it's a good idea to print them out first to make sure that the formatting will be right when the schools print them out.</p>
<p>Michael, that is an interesting way to do it too. </p>
<p>The formatting problems never arose by using the hardcopies the way we did them. For the little blanks with basic data (name, parents' names, school name, etc.), it was filled in by hand. For all the short answer questions, these were typed using a word processor and the space was measured ahead of time and then the text was cut and glue sticked right onto the application. For all the little charts and lists, these were made on the computer to fit the space (and there was a lot of leeway to make the charts work for personal information just so) and printed and glue sticked onto the application. For the longer essays, these were on the computer and the pages attached. The activity resume was a supplemental piece, as was the cover letter. We used the hard copy application. We also made a copy of the entire package before sending. By using hardcopy, we didn't have to deal with the formatting or other limitations that are online either. All the significant pieces were done on a word processor and once created, put onto the application. Certain things like the activity chart were boilerplate and used for all apps. We made sure to follow the format they wanted in terms of information but were able to create the chart to work to fit the information. With questions that wanted about a paragraph, the student could type it, adjusting fonts and margins to make sure that their answer fit the height of the allotted space but there was more leeway compared to doing it on the online form, typing online. By using a word processor, they could tailor everything the way they wanted as long as it fit the space allotted. </p>
<p>There are different approaches that people use and so it is a matter of figuring out your preferences. But one thing you point out that I alluded to as well earlier, is that for those who want to use the common app, many schools have a supplement anyway and so in many ways, there are still separate apps to do. We just used each school's own app. For some schools the common app plus supplement IS their app.</p>
<p>
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I wonder if anything appeared to be trending differently than in years past.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Interesting question; I am guessing it might be hard to generalize across schools, but we have definitely noticed some shifts.</p>
<p>All4FSU....what sorts of shifts have you been noticing? I realize your reflections are in relation to FSU.</p>
<p>All4FSU, Thank you for adding your perceptions to the mix. I would also be very appreciative of anything you might share from your perspective.</p>
<p>All right, those of you who have trod this rocky path before us, the inquisitive NMR has yet <em>another</em> couple of questions:</p>
<p>On the common application (and others), they give kids a choice of essay topics and ask the students to write a minimum of 250 words. </p>
<p>Ok, so essays can be longer than 250 words. But can they be, say, 900 words? Is that a bad thing? </p>
<p>Also, it says "Attach your essay to the last page on a separate sheet or sheets." At the risk of appearing stupider than I already do, what do kids do if they are submitting the whole darned thing electronically? I would imagine that they should just create a Word document and (if possible) attach it to the email in which you send the application, or else email it .... HELP!!</p>
<p>One more: on the instructions for the common app, it says not to mix applying online with applying by paper. In other words, they don't want kids to fill out the application part online and then, say, send an essay via the mail. I get that. But teacher recs, etc. must be printed out and given physically to the teachers, right? </p>
<p>Thanks in advance to any of you who have the patience to answer me after you pick yourself off the floor laughing at my ignorance. :)</p>
<p>Count me among the ignorant, NMR. You asked questions I've been wondering about also, so I hope someone writes in with the answers! My saving grace is that my D seems to know "everything" about this process and seems to be handling it all on her own, and quite well so far. Isn't that just a little scary? Why am I nervous about this, and shouldn't I be feeling thankful that she's doing it without my help? Are there any other parents out there who have kids telling them not to worry, that they have everything "under control"? Applications are being completed online....essays are underway, with several already finished....resume, repertoire and activities list completed, and continues to be updated through the summer.... SAT and ACT retakes are scheduled....audition book ready. I feel totally (well, almost totally) useless. I still control the credit card information!</p>
<p>triplethreat, wow! I am impressed with your kid! Mine has been away at a precollege program most of the summer and is just getting back into the home groove (so to speak.) Though she <em>is</em> on top of the whole monologue/song selection situation and her resume and activities list is up to date, she has only just started doing some of the online apps and essays are still to be tackled. Ask your very competent and independent kid my questions, will ya? I especially want to know about the length of the essays. I realize that the adcoms don't want to read a book, but 250 words (and even 500) seems short to me. (Someone is surely laughing here, as I am longwinded and y'all know it!:))</p>
<p>NMR... sorry to break the bad news, but each school tends to handle all these concerns a little bit differently. For instance, I remember one school actually having a way for teachers to submit recommendations on-line - your D would sign them up through her electronic application, and provide the teacher's e-mail addresses - the school would then contact the teacher via e-mail with an on-line form they can complete. There's really no way any application can be entirely electronic especially given the transcripts, ACT/SAT scores, etc. that are part of the application. I found that the best way to handle it was to read through each school's requirements with a fine-toothed comb and create a chart of sorts that addresses how the school wishes to receive application materials. On this document, I included their PIN for the common application, addresses and phone numbers for the departments she was sending information to, etc., so that once everything was checked off on each schools' checklist, I'd wait a couple of weeks to see if any confirmation came that the school had received all the materials, and if not, then I'd call the contact I had listed. A couple of times when part of an application hit the school before other parts, she'd get a letter reporting this, and asking her to follow up with it if it hadn't already been taken care of. </p>
<p>I know that 250 words seems short, but you know that the key to getting a message across is to KISS (keep it simple stupid), and if kids can't learn to condense their ideas into a short essay while still making a strong impact, then the schools take that into consideration. I remember as both of my Ds were tackling college application essays, they referred to one specific english class they had in high school that prepared them well for expressing themselves without all the fru-fru stuff that we tend to engage in when we're typing on line, like an ongoing dialogue. Yes, it can be a real challenge to limit one's answer, but I also think the essays are a lot like auditions - they may ask you to do 32 bars of a song, but halfway through, they already have formed an opinion. When writing the essays, kids need to learn to capture the readers' attention quickly and maintain it so they want to read all the way to the end, like you want an auditor to want to listen to the whole song. </p>
<p>Also, from what I remember, many of the applications had one or two longer essays, as well as short answer essays. So the student has a chance to prove themselves in two different contexts. </p>
<p>Really, the best way to approach it is to read, read, read each school's requirements over and over again. Do so with application requirements, as well as audition requirements. I usually found that if I just looked hard enough, the answer was usually there (not to say I never found contradicting information from two different resources!). </p>
<p>Not necessarily as a last resort, call the admissions office and ask - but when you do so, get the name of the person you speak with, and their position. When someone knows you are tracking their name, they tend to double check the answer they give you more often because they don't want incorrect information coming back and biting them.</p>
<p>Thanks, Teri! That's really helpful. It figures that there is not a one-size-fits-all answer!
I am still wondering about the length of the essays, mainly because, on the Common App, it says "at LEAST 250 words." Certainly the adcoms don't want to have to read pages and pages (however well written), but I am basically wondering if a 500 word essay would be out of bounds.</p>
<p>Many applications tend to give a word limit/estimate, not a minimum. Is this the personal essay on the common app? (the main essay)? If so, the personal essay is meant usually on most apps to be about 500 words. When an app specifies a "500 word essay" (which I realize is NOT the directions on the app you are talking about), it is best to stay close to the guideline of what they are asking for. So, when a word limit/approximation is given, try to be within about 10% of it (adcoms are not counting words). So for a 500 word essay, try to be within about 550 words. Often a student starts out with one that is even longer but in subsequent drafts, should keep editing and editing to get it to be about that size. I haven't seen many apps that say a minimum amount of words (perhaps that is a newer version), but if it is the main essay....I think your D should think in terms of 500-600 words tops, keeping it to one page single spaced. It should have many revisions to weed out unnecessary words, etc. </p>
<p>What is harder is that some kids write a first draft that is like 1000 words and having to whittle that down to 550 is much harder. So, at the get go on the first draft, while not having to keep the word count to the final word count, it is good to keep an approximation in mind. It is easier to edit down a 700 word essay to 500-550 words but not that easy if the first draft is like double what you want the final draft to be. You are correct that the adcoms do not want much longer essays no matter how well written. Even a very good essay should be able to be down to 500-600 words and one single page typed. It is a process. Most of my students write many essays (each app has different required topics) and do many drafts of each one. And when it gets time to the final drafts, it always involves cutting the word count down. First, work on the content. </p>
<p>So, if you are talking about the main essay, the personal essay, it should be in the ballpark of 500 words (can go over a little).</p>
<p>Thank you so much for that clarification, Susan. 500 words for the main essay seems right to me, too, for what that's worth. I just checked again and the instructions for the main essay (not the short answer) on the Common Application does, indeed, say "250 words minimum." My guess is that some kids will take that literally and write on and on, but I have enough common sense at least prompt me to ask the question in the first place. (Kudos to NMR! :)) Susan, you are so right that a good essay of 1000 words can, with skillful and strategic editing, be pared down to a meaningful 500 words. Brevity is the soul of wit and all of that.
Susan, one more question while I know (hope!) you are online: for kids who do decide to submit their applications online and to use the Common App, how in heck do they attach to it an essay they write in Word? Is it sent via a separate email? Or will it be evident how to do this when my D actually goes to fill the thing out and submit it to multiple schools?
In any case, thanks for the help. I hope I don't drive everyone crazy with questions before this process is through. ;)</p>
<p>NMR....I do not use online applications (MUCH prefer paper apps)....my kids did not and neither do most of my clients. However, I believe that once your D creates the essay in Word, she then must cut and paste it onto the online application which has a character limit in fact, based on what others who have used it have said. If you are doing an online app....all goes in together, not a separate email. Even if you use the common app, many schools have their own app only or many who accept common app also have supplemental apps. You likely have discovered that but just telling you in case.</p>
<p>Susan, yes, I remember you saying that your kids and your clients all prefer paper applications, and that would be my preference, too! After all, I still want to hold our daily newspaper in my hands and read it, rather than do that online like many who are younger than me do! :)
At this point, my D is not sure whether she will do things online or via physical applications on paper, though I have talked to a number of parents whose kids have been through this and who all submitted online with no problems. Even if my kid decides to use paper, however, that Common Application is tempting, because it would mean being able to use one essay for a number of schools. (Yes, supplements are required for some. But as far as I can ascertain at this time, none of the supplements asks for another essay.) This seems to me a big advantage when you consider how busy senior year is, with AP classes, regular schoolwork, shows, lessons and college auditions.</p>
<p>S used only online applications and all worked out well. All apps got in by Thanksgiving last fall and he got all the audition dates he wanted. Essays were quite easily uploaded from the computer once they were ready. While there are different programs for online apps, you'll discover that there are only a few formats (of course there is the Common App, but some other schools use the same vendor for their online application form so those schools' applications have the same look and feel, even though their questions will be different; then, there are a few schools that have their own "home grown" online apps (CCM and USC come to mind) so they are not going to look like everyone else's). From the standpoint of colleges and universities (my day job!), most schools actually prefer the online applications because the information goes directly into their data files.
As an applicant, it probably shouldn't make any difference. That said, for S, using the computer to complete the form worked better because there are usually "prompts" that indicate missed questions or other helpful clues about completing the form correctly. If you do go with online applications, just be sure to look for the email that will come from each school indicating they have received the application. Sometimes a student will do everything but then forget to actually submit the application (usually this is where mom or dad come in because the credit card is needed at this step!). Following the email from the school, the next check on the application status is to look online because many of the schools have an application status file that indicates what's in and what's missing. Again, look to be sure the application shows as submitted. Given the receipt of online apps is very quick, the ability to confirm that the school has the application is actually more reassuring than with snail mail.<br>
We printed everything, though, just in case! (...but all 9 of them went through with no problems)</p>