<p>My first son, not a music major, applied to 15 schools (including a number of UC's.) This second son is determined to apply to only four. He knows what he wants and why, and who he wants to study with - he's very clear. He has a sense of where he would be welcomed, as well, at least by the music dept. It's not so much that I'm worried about him being admitted (although it would be super foolish not to worry a little!) - but I worry about the financial aspects of having so few choices in the end. We haven't dealt with music scholarships before - Son 1 was given fair financial aid at a top liberal arts college and we managed to get him all the way through - so I know it can be done, if the college is generous enough with their aid. I keep mentioning 'financial safety' to him, and only half jokingly wish he would apply to Yale. But he doesn't want to go to Yale, nor any of the other Ivies, with the possible exception of Cornell which has drifted off his list.</p>
<p>I think I remember someone posting about their child only applying to a few colleges and it worked out. I just need some reassurance here that I should not be panicking, or some support to force him to apply to at least one financial safety school even if he is less than enthusiastic about attending there if he had to. My only comfort is USC, which is on his list of 4, pretty much guarantees half tuition for National Merit, which he is. So my son says, see mom, there's your financial safety.</p>
<p>So, are we crazy in this day and age to apply to so few?</p>
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<p>I keep mentioning 'financial safety' to him, and only half jokingly wish he would apply to Yale.>></p>
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<p>Well...that "free tuition" music program at Yale is not for undergrads. It is for graduate students only. So you can put that idea to rest for at least four years!</p>
<p>If your son is a music major, and he's looking for performance awards, those will be based solely on his audition and the needs of the music program. In other words, if he's an oboe player and they don't NEED an oboe player then even a terrific audition will not net him a scholarship at many schools (in fact some schools will not admit students on instruments where there is no need in their studios).</p>
<p>If your son has four schools to which he wants to apply, and a back up plan just in case he doesn't get accepted, I would say...just let it go. My son applied to seven schools but he could easily have applied to only five. He did the other two as they were early auditions (Nov/Dec) and he liked the programs well enough. </p>
<p>In addition, scheduling and doing four auditions will be a lot easier than scheduling a lot more.</p>
<p>You don't mention your son's intended area of music. Is it performance? </p>
<p>I have to say...the only "financial safety" I can think of would be one of your state universities where the costs would be more modest than at private universities, conservatories or OOS publics. But even then...that audition will still be important.</p>
<p>Yale SOM is a grad, not undergrad program. If that's the financial safety aspect, you had best rethink it.</p>
<p>Son (violist) only applied to three, admits at all, but this was back in '01 for fall '02 admit. He was academically solid, so we saw no issue, plus these were the schools and faculty he wanted. Worst case, we had a rolling admissions state college with a solid faculty, many of whom he had worked with previously. </p>
<p>D also applied to only 2, with slightly lower academics than son. Hers was a specific animal care major, and the third choice was on the west coast, where she did not want to be. She applied '04 for fall '05 admit. Worst case, she could have taken a gap year and worked as she had an entry level job in her field in high school. D's career choice was very major specific, so her options limited to begin with. She was academically solid enough that there was little doubt she'd be admitted. She was accepted at both.</p>
<p>We did get a nice package from each of their choices.</p>
<p>From a performance admit standpoint, some really do narrow the choice, or take a gap year to prep. </p>
<p>But that was then, and this is now.</p>
<p>Knowing what I know now, and how tight admissions are, we would broaden the scope.</p>
<p>Perhaps we are the crazy family you are remembering??</p>
<p>Whether or not you are nuts is what kind of back-up plan you have in place. </p>
<p>My S also only applied to 4 schools, and they were all reach schools: Curtis, Juilliard, CIM, and CCM. He decided, like your S, that he knew what he wanted to do and where he wanted to do it, and if it didn't work out, he didn't want to go anywhere. His back-up plan was a year off, probably studying in Germany (where we lived then.)</p>
<p>I was also pretty confident that he would get academic money to attend at least U of Cinci - even if he didn't get into CCM, so had that as an option as well. Of course, we were hoping for Curtis with free tuition, but that was his only rejection. </p>
<p>It worked out for him. That doesn't mean he wasn't crazy for doing it that way. On the other hand -- 15 schools -- now *that's * crazy. :)</p>
<p>It is encouraging to hear that some of you with children who were very definite and very clear in their choices were able to limit the applications to so few - with positive outcomes.</p>
<p>My son is a composer. The auditions are different than for performance - he does have to audition on his primary instrument for most, but our assumption is the bar will be set lower. However his skill level is high and he is principal of a very good youth orchestra - although he spends his time composing much more than practicing. (I admit, the one advantage I see in applying to so few schools is limiting the number of auditions as well as the trips in the middle of winter to a multitude of schools.)</p>
<p>Binx - I think my son feels the same as yours. He would rather do something else entirely than go to a school with a program he feels might be stifling to his musical development. He doesn't want his college experience to be worse than the experience/opportunities he has now.</p>
<p>As for state options - the UC's we discovered in the first round with Son 1 were more expensive than a rich private college with good financial aid. I am going to force him to look at UCLA when we're in Southern California. And I may force him to apply. But any California resident will tell you that UCLA is not a good choice for a 'safety' school. And they have an odd admissions quirk in the music school - if you're not admitted to the Music program, you're rejected from the University no matter how qualified you may be academically.</p>
<p>As for my half joking reference to Yale - I was talking about undergrad. They have phenomenal financial aid. As do some of the other Ivies and Stanford. I believe one of our posters' composer daughter just chose Harvard over a conservatory for that very reason.</p>
<p>On the one hand, it's exciting to have a child so passionate and mature about the path he wants to take. On the other hand - it's scary!</p>
<p>If your student is adament that only wants to go to those 4 schools and would prefer to work or seek other alternatives only if and when rejected from them, AND IF he thoroughly understands the risks he is undertaking, fine.</p>
<p>I see too many kids with no idea about finances and college. Family has given them pretty everything they have ever wanted with no thought of costs. Now we are talking about a quarter million dollars in the next 4-5 years which may be a whole different story. Financial safeties are a must, in my opinion if there are limits on what the family can spend. Also when you are talking about performing arts schools, they can be much more selective than the overall school stats show. Especially if there is an audition involved. My son is a performing arts major and though he got into all of his schools, he did not get into a number of the programs at those schools, which was his goal.</p>
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Worst case, we had a rolling admissions state college with a solid faculty, many of whom he had worked with previously.
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<p>Just for clarification the rolling admissions state was NOT one of the 3 to which he applied. It was a worst case backup.</p>
<p>SpiritManager, if you fall into the specific income parameters, yes then the Ivy's can be very cost effective. However, even jokingly as a safety, I'd rather play the lottery. ;)</p>
<p>You can add my son to the list of folks who also only applied to 4 for music performance - Eastman, NEC, CIM and Rice. He ended up with 2 admits and 2 waitlists. His financial offers were what we expected so we were OK there. He, too, knew where he wanted to go, who he wanted to study with and was willing to take a gap year if needed. His 2 younger brothers, neither of whom are music majors, also applied to lower numbers of schools - 5 and 4 respectively. They both got good offers from their schools, even the very competive ones.</p>
<p>We also only applied to 4. S was not interested in any other schools and did not have a real back-up plan. One of the school was pretty much a safety. He was invited to audition at 3 of the 4 schools (we knew #4 was a crap shoot). He was accepted at all 3, with significant merit aid at 2 of them. </p>
<p>I'm not sure how I would have gotten more than 4 applications (with pre-screening CDs) out of him, and I know we would not have handled more than 3 auditions very well.</p>
<p>My son originally had only three schools, but added two relatively late in the process. He had pre-screenings at all but one (his "safety"), was invited to all the auditions and admitted to all. Like Tango, I don't know if we could have managed more auditions (I have told of our week of four auditions and 1000 miles of driving before---we only got to choose audition dates at two schools; the rest told us!).</p>
<p>I remember asking almost this very same question a year ago, and also offered the same caveat that my son would was certain that a gap year was preferable to going to the wrong school. However, he had had practice lessons and got good feedback wherever we went, plus some national recognition and camp experiences which also gave us info; We were told that he was competitive at all the schools (but certainly no guarantees!), and that was the only reason I felt ok about so few apps. </p>
<p>Still, last year's class, along with your '09, are huge demographically, and there are loads of talented kids applying to music schools (we also kept seeing the same faces!). MSM told us that they had "buckets and buckets" of pre-audition CDs, and that was the case at so many schools, so it's really important, if possible, to know where your son stands nationally (I don't know a thing about conducting, though).</p>
<p>My S got varying amounts of money, all based on merit, not need. He is beyond delighted at his school. It is the, without question, the right choice for him, and I don't regret his decision to apply only where he was sure he wanted to go (because things worked out---had they not, I might have had very different thoughts at this time!).</p>
<p>I'd like to share my son's experience last year. As a cellist, he applied to 5 conservatories, including one safety. He was rejected from two, waitlisted at two, and got into his safety with scholarships etc. The waitlists never opened up. </p>
<p>Later, another mom posted on CC the stats for cello admissions at Eastman, one of the schools that rejected my son:</p>
<p>After cd prescreening, 95 were invited to audition live, for 3-5 spots.</p>
<p>That's worse than getting into Harvard.</p>
<p>So, I'd say how many schools you apply to depends. If your son wants to apply to conservatory programs, educate yourself about how many spots are available and how many applicants each school has. If I had just taken that one last step of getting the stats from each school, my son would have applied to more programs. And I thought I was such a good researcher!</p>
<p>Just to give you an idea that we weren't reaching for schools that were out of my son's league:</p>
<p>At McGill, the teacher he asked for told him he would be in the upper half of undergraduates. Son was waitlisted there.</p>
<p>He was principal of our very good youth orchestra</p>
<p>He won three scholarship competitions--one judged by the head of Peabody, who happens to be married to the cello faculty my son had a lesson with and requested. Son was rejected from Peabody. </p>
<p>In my son's case, I think he should have applied to more schools and I think he had a ton of bad luck. But he's making the most of his time at his safety this year.</p>
<p>I sometimes think we forget that the small number of people posting here might be posting because their experiences have been mostly positive! From reading this forum it seems like everyone gets into a top music program! That story of the number of openings at Eastman is, of course, the way it is at all those top schools. I remember actually lining up three solid safeties that we felt our son would fit into if the worst case scenario came to pass. He ended up not applying to two of those because he had gotten into more likely first-choices by the early Spring, but it was a feeling of security to have those schools ready to go.</p>
<p>Well, I agree with the concept of holding open the option of a gap year and trying again if the results of applications aren't what the kid wants. I also think it relieves a lot of stress -- including the idea of applying to a lot of schools.</p>
<p>Right now we have a list of six -- DS is applying in Vocal Performance -- Oberlin, Eastman, Curtis, Julliard, Peabody, and Lawrence Con. DS and I agree that we will decide on McGill later (they do not require screening CD's from male voice applicants and their due date is January 15). I think that this is doable, and we'll see where we land.</p>
<p>My vocal performance daughter applied to four schools--two reaches and two safeties--was invited to audition at three and was accepted to those three. She really only had eyes for one (and she was accepted there, much to her relief). </p>
<p>From my post-acceptance point-of-view, the hardest part about the application process was how to choose among acceptances. We found that surprising. The hard part about it was that the less-competitive programs were the ones that she only applied to as back-ups for if she didn't get the one she wanted...the definition of "safety," I guess. They were both about a quarter the tuition of her dream school. </p>
<p>After a very difficult time deciding, we all agreed that her dream school was the one she'd attend. If we had to do it over again, I'd say I'd urge her to apply to only one safety, but not too many more reaches. The audition portion of the process is very stressful and time-consuming, and I'm glad we didn't attend many more than we did. So, to respond to OP's question: no, IMHO, I don't think four applications is nuts. Your son sounds focused, and I've seen a number of applicants apply to schools only to soothe their parents' concerns...while the applicant has no intention of attending those extras on the list if accepted.</p>
<p>As a side note, my older non-music major son applied only to his dream school--probably not a huge reach, but certainly no slam dunk--and got in. That was a high-wire act I'm glad we don't have to watch repeated!</p>
<p>I know several kids who applied only to their dream school and would not be talked into any safeties. In all cases but one, it worked out. The one who did not get in was wait-listed, worked intensely with the guidance department at the high school and an admissions counselor at the college, eked out some higher grades in the Spring semester, and got in</p>
<p>This is such an individual decision. There are "reaches" and there are "reaches." It also varies so much from instrument to instrument. For voice, if someone were to only apply to Juilliard, Curtis, Mannes and MSM, I'd say that was very risky. There could be 4 choices from less competitive conservatories that would still be risky but perhaps less so. There are also university programs that are more highly regarded than some of the conservatories. With certain instruments, there appear to be a discreet number of very highly regarded, ultra competitive studios. Only applying to those is clearly very risky.</p>
<p>I agree, Cartera. In addition, it really is imperative that you have an accurate understanding of where your talent and ability fits within a particular studio or school. Although CC seems to attract kids of extremely high ability, I have unfortunately known personally some folks who have totally and completely unrealistic ideas about their talent, and their chances - to the point of leaving me speechless. (That's extreme!) Four schools can be merely risky, or it can be downright foolish, depending upon the schools AND the applicant.</p>
<p>It is important to have a private teacher involved, along with trial lessons and candid feedback, in order to tailor-make an appropriate list. (This is not directed at the OP, though, who sounds like he did everything right!)</p>
<p>The troubling aspect I found was the crap shoot aspect of some of it. No matter how well a student does on an audition, test scores, etc., if they only take 3 or 4 in a given instrument, you can be absolutely brilliant but not make it. Things can change drastically from year to year, and no small issue, the school's need can drastically affect FA. </p>
<p>We did everything we could, had teacher support, great recommendations (2 from alums of the school), everything they said to do on the website, and S did a superb audition all the way through. In fact, standing in the hallway I teared up on his slow piece during his individual jazz audition. It was the most expressive I'd every heard him play. </p>
<p>He was philosophical about it afterward, saying that on that particular day, he could not have done any better. So he had no regrets. He's been told last year they only took 4 in his major; this year it was more like 14-15. That's still a tiny fraction of applicants.</p>
<p>Spirit...with all of the amazing schools with amazing composing opportunities, your son would only be happy at four? Has he really, really looked at everything? Take me with a grain of salt...my son was prepared to apply to 15 schools...but there was something about each that interested him. USC is not a safety...it's composing department is among the best in the world (especially for film). UCLA is definitely not a safety. A lot of composers want to go to LA, so the competition will be stiff (although your son sounds extremely qualified). I would apply to more...but that's me. Does he have a Plan B if none of his choices pan out? I don't think Yale is a bad choice...although the music department is primarily for grad students, we've known a lot of undergrads who have figured out ways to study with the faculty and get what they want out of the music program. Stanford has composers in residence as well (they do a lot with computer generated music). I'd encourage him to make sure he's looked everywhere!</p>