<p>Voiceofreason. The admissions office phone number is 540-458-8710. Give them a call. You might just learn something. :-)</p>
<p>If you are afraid to call the admissions office and discuss your incendiary claims directly with them like an adult, please go away. Looking forward to hearing your report on the call!</p>
<p>Hey @voiceofreason66 maybe you should go jump all over the Harvard and Princeton forums. They were actually sued for discrimination against Asians. You are in so over your head regarding your unfounded claims that it isn’t even funny. <a href=“Asian-American Claims Harvard, Princeton Denied Admission Based On Race | HuffPost College”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
<p>Another article from the New York Times indicating you should go to the Ivy League forums and start raising cane and move on from this forum where there are no smoking guns.</p>
<p><a href=“Statistics Indicate an Ivy League Asian Quota - NYTimes.com”>http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-an-asian-quota-in-the-ivy-league/statistics-indicate-an-ivy-league-asian-quota</a></p>
<p>@wlpoppa If you have no data to compare the quality of Whites applicants with URM applicants then how did you come to the conclusion that Whites being admitted at nearly 4 times the rate of URMs is not a sign of discriminatory admission policy??? </p>
<p>I used Auburn University for obvious reasons in comparing the applicant quality of Whites and URMs in admissions. First, Auburn is an institution that provided a breakdown of admission rates based upon ethnicity. Both AU and W&L are southern schools with low Asian American student populations. Each is a quality academic institution in its own rights. Both schools claim to embrace diversity. The Data from AU and W&L speak for itself. AU’s Asian-American admission rate is similar to their White applicants, the same cannot be said of W&L. Where on its face, the admission data suggests that there is a serious discriminatory admission policy against Asian Americans and URMs. </p>
<p>Although to be fair, W&L’s scholarship committee seems to lack the discriminatory actions of the Admission’s Department. It is clear that once an URM is admitted to W&L, their chances at the merit scholarships are evaluated without any obvious signs of racial discrimination. So if @Hello98 gets past the Admissions Department, then it appears that he will be treated fairly by the Johnson Scholarship Committee.</p>
<p>As to your attack of the Ivy League schools possibly discriminating against Asian American applicants, that might be true to some extent but since schools have limited seats in each freshman class and Ivy schools can choose to diversify its student body by admitting a diverse freshman class then it is possible that Asian Americans are taking a hit in the admission process.</p>
<p>However, the Ivy Schools are still enrolling 16-20% of each freshman class with Asian American students compared to about 2-3% Asian American enrollment at W&L. To put this in perspective, the Ivy schools have more Asian American students than W&L has of all URMS as a percentage of its student body.</p>
<p>Also, in none of your links about the Ivy schools does it show that the White applicants are being accepted at a rate of 3-4 times the admission rate of Asian Americans or any of the other URMs for that matter. If you could provide such information, I would gladly go to the Ivy League Site and make those aware of such discriminatory policy. </p>
<p>I provide this information about Washington and Lee’s admission with a heavy heart. I do not take pleasure in showing that the admission data of W&L is deeply concerning. I initially gave the benefit of the doubt that W&L was not discriminatory in its admission policy against URMs but nonetheless was troubled by the admission rate data. I, too, assumed that the skewed admission data against URMs was the result of poor quality of URM applicants compared to Whites. I took it on faith since the alternative would be that W&L was discriminatory against URMs. But this assumption was shattered when I was made aware of the Johnson Scholarship recipient data. I did not know such data existed until it was referenced by @bellybones. </p>
<p>For me this data was the lynch pin to come to my conclusion that W&L has been discriminating against URMs and especially Asian Americans. You have stated no facts, provided no logical rationale for why the admission rates are so skewed in favor of Whites and against URMs. As I stated in prior posts, some leeway in admission rates is natural, but an admission rate disparity of nearly a factor of 4 is incredulous given the number and percentage of Asian American recipients of the Johnson Scholarship. How can over 10% of all Johnson Scholars be Asian American when only 3% of the student body is Asian American? It can only occur if the Asian American applicant are of outstanding quality which would debunk the assumption that the quality of Asian American applicants were of such poor quality that the low admit rate would be justified. The Johnson Data refutes this belief and turns it on its head.</p>
<p>If you or anyone sees the data differently, please feel free to explain your rationale as to your interpretation of the data or provide facts that I may have overlooked.</p>
<p>What have you overlooked? Are you serious?? You overlook Everything. </p>
<p>Admissions staff looks at the following before making the admissions decision:</p>
<p>SAT/ACT
GPA
Class rank
Extracurriculars
Essays
Amount of interest shown in the school
Recommendations</p>
<p>You have absolutely NONE of this critical information used in the admissions decisions yet you can somehow conclude on the decisions made by the people that DiD have all of this information </p>
<p>You are blinded by your anger due to your child not being accepted to the school. If your child had been qualified based on ALL the factors used by admissions, he would have gotten the offer. </p>
<p>By the way, have you called the admissions office yet??? If you don’t have the guys to confront the issue with the people in the know, stop making baseless accusations out of anger. </p>
<p>@wlpoppa Why do you insist on claiming that White applicants are superior to URMs and especially Asian American applicants to W&L given that you have stated in your prior post #39 that you do not have any data to suggest that this is the case. </p>
<p>Yet you disregard the hard admission rate data which clearly shows that White Applicants are admitted at a rate nearly 4 times that of URMs, 35% vs 9%, respectively.</p>
<p>Yes, everything you mention are factors in the admission decision which is applicable to ALL Applicants. But in order to come to the conclusion that the above admission rate disparity is not discriminatory, you must conclude that White Applicants are Superior to URMs. Are you willing to make this claim???</p>
<p>Do you know who are placed on W&L’s wait-list? All students who are not awarded admissions but who are deemed, using your own words, “qualified based upon ALL the factors by admissions” are put on the wait-list. These students are deemed qualified by Admissions to enroll at W&L if there is room available in a freshman class. </p>
<p>Given the lack of ethnic diversity at W&L and W&L has publicly stated that it wants to improve diversity, why then are URM students not selected from the wait-list when in the past about 90 students have come from the wait-list each year??? That is 150+% more than the entire total of all URM students in a freshman class. Got an explanation for this??? </p>
<p>Clearly you are biased toward your child’s school that you can not see the data that is before you or are unwilling to question the irregularity of the admission data. No amount of data will change your mind but to those rational folks who are out there, perhaps enough people interested in fighting discrimination will also speak out so that W&L will stop its discriminatory behavior in the future. </p>
<p>I thought that the W&L community would be up in arms about the admission rate data, but so far all I have seen are apologists who make unfounded statements or ad hominem attacks. I left it to @Hello98 to decide whether to apply to W&L or not based upon the information. I hope he makes the right decision and goes elsewhere for his education, because what I am hearing from you and others at W&L is saddening.</p>
<p>Stop whining. Have you called admissions yet??? </p>
<p>No. Because you don’t want to get any facts. You want to draw conclusions based on your own BIASED conjecture. </p>
<p>You remind me of the folks that used to think the earth was flat and the earth was the center of the universe due to a limited view of the world. Once all the facts were known, the point of view changed dramatically. </p>
<p>When you grow up and call admissions, please, please report back to us. Until then you are simply projecting your own biases onto the situation. </p>
<p>wlpoppa Why do you continue to insist that White applicants to W&L are superior to URMs when you can provide no data to support this? Or is this what you personally believe?</p>
<p>Puhleeze. Could you show my quote regarding the superiority of white applicants to URMs. I have come to no definitive conclusions. All I have done is challenged your unsubstantiated claims of discrimination and you have failed miserably at providing any support whatsoever for your claims. If you are going to make such an inflammatory claim, you better come with plenty of data to support your claim. You have zilch in the way of data that was utilized by the admissions office to make its decisions. </p>
<p>Once again. How much data do you have? ZERO pieces of information out of the reams used by admissions. </p>
<p>You are a trouble maker and a ■■■■■. Please call admissions or return to your place at the flat earth society. </p>
<p>wlpoppa If you are not concluding that White applicants are superior to URMs then how do you explain the near 4 fold admission rate difference between White and URM applicants? You can’t without believing that White applicants are superior to URM.</p>
<p>If the White and URM students are similar in quality then the admission rates should be similar. or somewhere close. </p>
<p>Your position is untenable and your logic worse. Name calling does not change the data, the facts and is unbecoming.</p>
<p>I have never, ever drawn a conclusion on this thread. I cannot draw a conclusion without facts. You obviously like to jump to conclusions unencumbered by the lack of facts. </p>
<p>Maybe the URMs are not as qualified as the whites when considering ALL the factors that are considered by the admissions office. Maybe they are as qualified. WE DO NOT KNOW the answer to that question. Only the admissions people know the answer. So call them!!!</p>
<p>You are an internet ■■■■■ and a troublemaker. If you weren’t, you would be calling W&L to get answers rather than spewing unsubstantiated and very divisive accusations of discrimination. </p>
<p>I started with a challenge to you to back up your claims with facts. You have been unable to do so as you have no idea of backgrounds or qualifications of any applicants. Nor have you acted as a responsible adult and called the people you are accusing. </p>
<p>Instead, you have accused me of coming to a conclusion (which I haven’t) and asked me to support a claim I never made. Illogical and irrational. </p>
<p>YOU made the claim. You have no FACTS to back up the claim. You refuse to attempt to get the facts. You continue to be a ■■■■■ </p>
<p>Once again. The big question you refuse to answer. Have you called to talk to the admissions office about your concerns?</p>
<p>wlpoppa I should have never addressed your challenge in posts #30-32. As I had thought, you would parrot the same response over and over again without providing any thoughtful input. My assessment was correct.I will not make this mistake again.</p>
<p>Glad you are giving up since you cannot answer any basic questions that support your allegations. </p>
<p>Good riddance</p>
<p>@Hello98 The sentiments here on the W&L thread are also trickling down to the students. Here is a recent article written by a W&L student about what she perceives to be a problem in the selection of Johnson Scholars.</p>
<p><a href=“Johnson Scholarship Not What It Seems? — The W&L Spectator”>http://wluspectator.com/2014/05/01/johnson-scholarship-not-what-it-seems/</a></p>
<p>Is this how students at W&L really feel about diversity???</p>
<p>That article has to do with keeping the Johnson scholarship purely merit based just like it was originally advertised by the school. Current Johnson students (of all races) have no doubt that race is a big part of the Johnson selection process now. It’s also important to remember that current Johnson students have input on selecting future Johnson scholars so when many of them have very similar comments after being on a variety of different interview panels, they are probably on to something.</p>
<p>In general it’s also not a good idea to draw conclusions about an entire student body based on on persons article in an opinion publication (even if you agree with what the author is saying)</p>
<p>p.s. I know her, she isn’t racist ;)</p>
<p>Ugh, voiceofreason66, can’t you just move on? It’s sad. You now see what you want to see. You pick an article from the conservative student paper (that I consider the equivalent of the National Review), and instead of praising the faculty member that clearly wants diversity you misconstrue the student’s views as anti-diversity. Why not focus upon and praise the student’s line “diversity at Washington and Lee is important and is definitely something that the school should strive for” or “The value of diversity is significant…”? That would be a positive response to your query of “Is this how students at W&L really feel about diversity?”. But it doesn’t fit with your blinded view.</p>
<p>Just like the bitter dad in the comment section of that article stating “Whites, need not apply”, jaded by his personal experience, I think you are biased by your negative outcome. You are dissuading URM’s from applying to W&L, and I ask if you really think that will help that faculty member’s cited effort at diversity. You dwell on the negatives and dismiss the positives.</p>
<p>You don’t see me on the Alabama forum posting about the girl kicked out this month for her racist snapchat: <a href=“University Of Alabama Sorority Kicks Out Member For Sending Racist Snapchat | HuffPost College”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost; . I am not over there saying “is this how Alabama students feel about diversity?”. I know that would be an unfair statement. </p>
<p>I personally know several W&L students and alums who embrace diversity. </p>
<p>Anyway, to the OP I am sorry to say that I cannot help on the Johnson process as we did not go through it. I can say to all applicants (admissions, Johnson, whatever in life) that “they can’t say yes unless you ask”. </p>
<p>@MWCDSS You are correct. I should have praised the faculty member for wanting diversity and I will do that now. I have also stated in prior posts that once an URM is accepted, their chances at merit awards are evaluated Fairly. </p>
<p>As to the student’s line “diversity at Washington and Lee is important and is definitely something that the school should strive for” rings hollow given she makes the case that an Asian American student who qualified for the Johnson Scholarship should not have been awarded the scholarship because in her eyes he wasn’t deemed meritorious enough compared to other White students. I could go on about why she is wrong but I won’t.</p>
<p>As to why I asked my question, it was asked because there seems to be no concern for the disproportional admission rates between URMs and Whites. Why?? I understand that parents who have children who graduated or are now attending W&L want to feel good about their school. I doesn’t feel good to know that the school’s admission policy might be discriminatory and that your children may have directly benefited at the exclusion of some worthy URMs.</p>
<p>But W&L is suppose to be different in that it has and follows a Code of Honor. I see no Honor in a discriminatory admission practice. That is what the admission data points to. You can be like wlpoppa and claim none of us knows the exact profile of each and every applicant and claim that there is where you will find the answer, but we all know that this claim is a ruse. This data is not available from any institution. The only data that is available is the admission data of the school as a whole. </p>
<p>I beg you to find one other college or university that has an admission rate for White applicants that is 3-4 times greater than URMs. In fact, I challenge you to find an institution who’s admission rate of Whites is just twice that of URMs. I have looked. I have checked the websites of hundreds of colleges trying to justify W&L admission data because like you I do not want to see the negative in a school. Unfortunately, I Found NONE. W&L is the only school to have admission numbers this disproportionately skewed.</p>
<p>As to your other concerns, I have never stated anything but positive things about the actual school. I have on numerous times stated that I do not believe the students or faculty are discriminatory. You seem to confirm this by your personal knowledge of several W&L students and alums who embrace diversity. In fact in prior posts I have stated that W&L is an excellent school. </p>
<p>But it is only available to those that can get in and the admission data shows that the admission office prefers its students be White. I do not ask for marginal URMs to be admitted over more qualified White students. I only seek fairness in the admission process so that the highly qualified URMs that are being turned away for less qualified White students be given their due. </p>
<p>If the HONOR CODE is really at work at W&L, there should be loads of students, parents, and alums wanting the admission’s office to justify the disproportional admission data or change its discriminatory ways. I don’t think that is too much to ask.</p>
<p>@coppijr I never stated your author friend was racist. I also did not generalize or draw conclusions about the student body as a whole. As I stated in the past, I have no evidence of discriminatory behavior from the students or faculty at W&L. My question was directed to those on this thread who have been quick to criticize and name call for the information that I have posted without ever seeing fit to take any action to confirm or dispel what I say is true or not. </p>
<p>You are a current student, have you even broached this issue with any faculty or fellow students?
Have you even taken the time to investigate it. The admission rate data based upon ethnicity has probably not been seen by anyone outside of the admission office and this site. </p>
<p>“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do.” Ben Franklin</p>
<p>“Busy OPINION is an idle fool.” Ford</p>
<p>Voice. Only fools draw “conclusions” without facts. </p>
<p>What if, the top notch Asian candidates are applying at Harvard, Stanford, Yale, NYU, Caltech, MIT, etc etc. Big name schools in big time cities. And what if those same Asian candidates are not applying at a small liberal arts college in a very small southern town? Instead, what if the less qualified Asian candidates are applying at this not well known, small liberal arts school in a small southern town in the hopes of scoring acceptance at a great school but not an Ivy or similar school? No. That could never, ever happen. Of course only the top notch Asian candidates are applying at this tiny, not well known liberal arts school in a tiny southern town. The omniscient, omnipresent, all seeing, all knowing (without seeing any data on applicants) Voiceofreason66 knows that this scenario is not at all possible. VOR knows all and sees all. Wow.</p>
<p>You claim to have scoured the earth for data on other schools. Have you looked at Bates (Asian 4%), Oberlin (5% Asian), Lafayette (4% Asian), Bucknell (3% Asian), Macalester, Holy Cross, Kenyon, etc, etc.? These are also good but lesser known liberal arts schools in small towns. Maybe, just maybe, instead of being discriminatory, these schools are admitting the best students which happen to be white because the best and brightest Asian applicants are applying to and getting accepted at the big well known top tier schools. Hmmm—</p>
<p>I am merely speculating. Not drawing conclusions with no facts like you are. Without the data that the admissions team had, you will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER know why they were denied. You can pontificate all day long, but it is only a bunch of hot air. You are way off base and have absolutely no sense of integrity or honesty if you continue to make claims of discrimination with NO access to facts.</p>
<p>Have you called the admissions office yet? </p>
<p>“If the HONOR CODE is really at work at W&L, there should be loads of students, parents, and alums wanting the admission’s office to justify the disproportional admission data or change its discriminatory ways. I don’t think that is too much to ask.”</p>
<p>These people work and attend W&L and know the people in the admissions office. They do not believe the admissions staff is discriminatory. Why would they ask such questions?</p>
<p>You on the other hand are making the accusations. In fact, you state above that they need to “change its discriminatory ways”. You are the accuser and are extremely judgmental. Therefore, you are the one that should ask the questions.</p>
<p>Have you contacted the admissions office yet? Come on. It’s easy. Pick up the phone. Make the call. Report back to us.</p>
<p>“I have checked the websites of hundreds of colleges trying to justify W&L admission data because like you I do not want to see the negative in a school. Unfortunately, I Found NONE. W&L is the only school to have admission numbers this disproportionately skewed.”</p>
<p>Can you please tell the forum which schools you looked at? Did you look at any of the schools I listed above?</p>
<p>Now it is time to put your money where your mouth is. Show us the money on all these other schools that you found the admit rates for the various ethnicities. I am especially interested in small liberal arts schools in small towns. How about all those schools I listed above?</p>
<p>We are waiting.</p>