<p>for computer science and management. I don't read much about this program on here. Any opinions, positive or negative? I know it's hard to get into. Is it overhyped or truly elite or somewhere in between? It sounds very unique in the description but maybe other places have similar programs that I'm not aware of. </p>
<p>Anybody's rising senior thinking of applying?</p>
<p>bump...anybody have opinions?</p>
<p>Never heard of the program, so had to google it. I didn't realize that it is at the Univ of Nebraska-Lincoln. Maybe someone has opinions of UNL.</p>
<p>Sounds like a great program for someone who is interested in computer science. But you'd have to be really committed to it. Sounds like the kids live together in their own dorm. Wiki had a nice quote from Bill Gates about the program.</p>
<p>Maybe redoing the title of the thread would get more attention from those on the board who are in the computer field.</p>
<p>Can I redo the title? How? I can't find an edit button. Or do you mean just to make a new post maybe?</p>
<p>New post would do the trick. Maybe something in the title to draw the attention of those CC members who work in the computer sci industry. Also put in a site to the program's website so that even if they haven't heard about the program, they can give you opinions.</p>
<p>Of course, if those in the industry haven't heard of the program, I guess that would tell you something.</p>
<p>I've heard the program is hit or miss. There are some people who love it and some who hate it. If you're seriously considering it, I'd ask for some real numbers:</p>
<ol>
<li> How many people do they retain in each class? I've heard for some classes they lose 40%. A few are lost because of grades, but most of the time it's because of dissatisfaction.</li>
<li> How many get good jobs? Where are these jobs? I've heard tons go to Microsoft in Fargo, ND, or Garmin and Cerner in KC. Few get good jobs in Nebraska. Less than 25% stay in the state. That's probably OK for you, but for the policy makers in teh state, that's not good at all.</li>
<li> How many professors turn over? There are professors at UNL that will never willingly teach for this program again. Tom Shores (Home</a> Page Main), Bruce Avolio (UNL</a> | CBA | Faculty and Staff), Kris Baack (UNL</a> | Student Involvement), Scott Swenseth (UNL</a> | CBA | Faculty and Staff), Mary Garbacz (CoJMC</a> | Mary Garbacz), Charles Riedesel (Charles</a> Riedesel), and so on. Ask how many professor changes there have been just this past year. A few here and there is normal, but 50% (so I've heard), is definitely not.</li>
<li> There's some "running joke" about low morale in the program and how they keep people's souls in jars in the office.</li>
</ol>
<p>It's a great opportunity for a free education, although the only scholarship that the program really offers is housing. Everything else comes from various university groups that you can get without being the program. Plus, you're locked in for four years and if you change your mind it can be painful. Especially if your scholarships are tied to grades and the program fails you indiscriminately.</p>
<p>Just double-check things and ask for real numbers. UNL is a great school by itself, and it's pretty easy to get a double major in CS and business on your own if that's what you want. Plus, with the "on-your-own" route you can explore a bit more and meet a wider range of people. Also, I've heard that you can get in to design studio without being in the program. So there really isn't any reason to do the program unless the housing scholarship is just that important.</p>
<p>Also, "elite" and "competitive" is exaggerated. It's a little difficult for Lincoln and Omaha kids since there are unofficial geographic quotas. Outside of there, if your student has a 31 on the ACT and is interested, it's likely he or she will get in. Doubly likely if it's a she. 2/3 are from Nebraska and 1/3 are not. Nebraska simply doesn't have that many nationally-competitive students outside of Omaha and Lincoln, so the numbers don't support a notion of "elite."</p>
<p>The kids aren't dumb by any means, but it's a regional honors program serving Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, and South Dakota.</p>
<p>The incoming class:
UNL</a> News Release: UNL Jeffrey S. Raikes School announces 2008 entering class</p>
<p>Yutle, thanks for the info. How did you get all this information, though? Were you involved in the program some way? I just want to know what angle you are coming from with this. That's exactly what I wanted, the good and/or bad.</p>
<p>I might be rushing it a bit because my daughter thinking of this program is just a rising sophomore but she is interested and is wanting to take the correct classes in her high school schedule to align with what is needed to get in. I have a rising senior, also, who is undecided and wants to go close to home but we are likely moving soon so "home" won't be the same place for the 4 years, more than likely! He doesn't seem interested in the program, though, but it caught my interest when my daughter showed me the web site.</p>
<p>My connection is I managed a project for their design studio. The program was touted as a great R&D shop for great value (i.e. cheap). We bought in to the idea, mistakenly believing that the kids could deliver a relatively important component of our upcoming release.</p>
<p>The truth, as we later discovered, is that the kids did fine work. But they did not execute anywhere near a real R&D or other software shop. They could not deliver on the promises of the faculty. They just lacked experience and technical expertise to be at the level we expected. That's expected from college kids, but not from the expectations we had about the program. So the project "failed," although for political reasons we put on a good face and acted pleased.</p>
<p>Next time we do the project we'll scope it to a 3-month project that we'd give a single intern. That's right, 5 people working for a whole school year can produce the same amount of work as one intern over a summer. A good portion of that is all of the nonsense documentation they make the kids do. We'll also make sure to isolate the project so that when -- not if -- it slips we're no worse off.</p>
<p>My long, drawn-out point is that I've seen the marketing materials and I've seen what the kids really produce. I've also had a chance to ask a few candid questions in our weekly meetings. They still have a lot to be proud of, and most are good kids, but there is a large disconnect between the external message and reality. I wouldn't jump head first.</p>
<p>Don't take my word for it -- ask for the numbers like I suggested. Just because they changed the name doesn't mean they've changed anything else. UNL is a great school, and your children would be as happy there as any other comparable state school. Computer Science + Business is an easy enough degree to do by yourself at any school. You can get the great value in education without going through the program.</p>
<p>It interesting to see what the business world thinks. I agree that the program gets overhyped, but on the other hand, businesses should have the foresight to recognize that these are still students, they still have other classes, they still are going to put an emphasis on their social lives, they have less vested interest in a company than an intern would, and so on. If an intern is working about 500 hours over the summer on a project, that equates to about 3 hours a week per team member over the course of two 17 week semesters. Sounds low, but certainly some weeks there will be more progress than others, there will always be slackers in any group, throw in test weeks where one or more team members might be MIA, and I think it's probably a fair assessment. If there is a lot of documentation that the teams have to deal with, they could easily be putting in more time with less efficiency.</p>
<p>For students however (and I have many friends including my pledge son in my fraternity who completed the program), I think the question is not really worth looking at it from the business side of things. Their focus should be on the student experience in order to determine if it's right for them.</p>
<p>As far as retention rates go, I think they're improving. I know that when I was a freshman, which was very early in the program's history, they had a made a large push at getting students coming in from the business aspect of things who weren't ready for the technical computer science aspects. It's much, much easier to be excited about the CS portion coming out of HS and then tack on the business rather than the other way around. The programming courses were a particular sore point as the business kids simply couldn't match in any way, shape or form, the work produced by their colleagues who had years of programming experience. </p>
<p>As much as I love Kris Baack (one of the professors who is not a fan of the program) - and Kris wrote me a letter of recommendation for medical school - she's not always the easiest person to get along with and there are a lot of people who would never willingly work with her on a project. The same could be said for a couple of others on that list (at least by reputation - I have no personal experience with the others).</p>
<p>My friends who have completed the program, most have been able to pick with relative ease their next step. Law school, business school, jobs with Microsoft/Garmin/etc, or starting their own business have all been done. I have about an equal number of friends who dropped out of the program as well though, and most of them have also gone on to similar sorts of things, so it's not as though the program does a massive amount - these are smart kids to begin with (sounds similar to the argument I frequently make about going to prestigious schools). </p>
<p>It's quite possible that the new name change will make a some difference in the computer world. As I understand it Raikes is a very well known name. Having that attached to you could only help. </p>
<p>Morale can vary alot. The happiest JDE kids I knew were involved in lots of other things - fraternities and sororities, student government, volunteer and service work, other clubs and organizations on campus. They didn't allow JDE to become their life, they got out of the Kaufman Center on a regular basis and made friends outside the program. This is hugely important as I know that since these kids have some of the classes inside the Kaufman Center, it becomes very easily for them to become very, very isolated. If you never go outside (because you don't have to), it absolutely can destroy your morale.</p>
<p>Just some thoughts and observations - PM me if you have any more questions.</p>
<p>These viewpoints have been very helpful, yutle and bigredmed!</p>
<p>Taking all into account, including the dissatisfaction about the students' performance in Design Studio from yutle's point of view (and they are still students, as bigredmed points out), answer this:</p>
<p>Compared to going to any other institution for the same studies in computer science or business, are these students any worse off when they graduate? Free room and board sure helps make a difference if the program is still getting them what they need...an education...regardless of the Design Studio part. Is their education diminished in any by being part of this program or would they be on a level playing surface as any other graduate after 4 years at another place?</p>
<p>I'm glad my daughter has a couple years before she has to start applications, and I hope in the meantime we'll hear from more those that have experienced the program.</p>
<p>From what yutle and I have written, I don't think either of are arguing that it's a bad idea to take part in this program. Maybe yutle will correct me on this, but I think we both see it as a positive thing and a feather in UNL's cap. What we are saying is that the picture painted by brochures and websites is not the sunny-happy smile land it's portrayed. </p>
<p>The Design Studio represents one the most unique aspects of the program and gives students an experience with businesses that would be looked on favorably by most outsiders (who would not have any idea of the scope of the design studio project). </p>
<p>I fully believe that if your daughter is the "right" type of person for the program, it would be unwise to go anywhere else. But if she's not a great fit, she might be better served going elsewhere, or to UNL as a non-Raikes student.</p>
<p>As for determining her fit I'd make sure she has the following things:
[ul]
[<em>]some computer programming experience
[</em>]she'll be majoring in Computer Science regardless of where she goes
[<em>]enough outside interests that she'll make efforts to take part in them outside of Raikes
[</em>]enough social tact to make nice with the (for lack of a better term) huge nerds that are in the program
[li]because she's female - she's ready to be trotted out by the program administration as evidence of this program attracting a diverse student body</p>[/li]
<p>[li] and in my opinion, she'll have the best possible experience in the program if she does it, if she'd join a sorority at UNL (which has one of the most successful Greek Communities in the country). </p>[/li]
<p>[/ul]</p>
<p>Again, PM me if you have any other issues</p>
<p>Didn't say it was a bad idea to do the program, and I'll echo the comment "the picture painted by brochures... is not the [real] sunny-happy smile land."</p>
<p>You did get from this conversation the "more data" I suggested you go after. Bigredmed's suggestion "she'll have the best possible experience in the program if... she'd join a sorority." Think what he's saying subtly: The best way to experience the intimate learning community for four years is to minimize contact with said learning community...</p>
<p>Keep asking questions, you're bound to get more data.</p>
<p>I also wouldn't say the program is a feather in UNL's cap. It's still a growing entity that's mired with a history of failures and lies. How many [paying] organizations do you know Gallup to refuse?</p>
<p>Like I said, don't jump head-first without reading how deep the pool is. It's not the regulation 10 feet you're expecting. You're still looking to join the neighborhood pool, not Oceans of Fun.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The best way to experience the intimate learning community for four years is to minimize contact with said learning community
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I guess that's one way to interpret what I said. </p>
<p>My experiences with friends is simply if the program is all you have, then it can easily become an absolutely overwhelming singular focus. It's not minimizing contact, it's providing outlets and experiences that the program can't give you.</p>
<p>I think I get what you are saying...it would be better if a person branched out from the program so it isn't too intense. I don't understand what you mean by this, however:</p>
<p>"How many [paying] organizations do you know Gallup to refuse?"</p>
<p>I am currently a Student in the Raikes School and I thought I would weigh in. For your information, I'm a freshman so this is literally my first week here. I love it. First of all, this place is the envy of the campus. It far and away has the best facilities - class rooms, breakout rooms, dorms, anywhere on campus and anywhere else that I was looking at going to school.</p>
<p>Everyone is very interested in making sure you succeed in the program and for God's sake, Jeff Raikes sat on the corporate advisory board for years, acted as President for some, and then gave a bunch of money and got the program named after him as a result. (Jeff Raikes being the CFO at Microsoft). The Raikes.UNL.edu website has a lot of links to companies who have hired JDE/JSRS students including Google, Garmin, CERNER, Microsoft (both campuses), etc. MS Fargo has been developing Microsoft Dynamics largely in cooperation with the design studio of the Raikes School.</p>
<p>The joke is that the souls are in containers in the basement actually. I don't know. I've always been high performance and I live on stress. So far, this should be run of the mill for me. I've got the class syllabuses, I've gotten to know the professor. I'm taking 17 hours, and I expect to be able to handle it, very well within my comfort zone.</p>
<p>As for the retention rates, most students leave because they don't like it here, it isn't what they thought, they were addicted to WoW (no I'm not saying this jokingly, it has been the reason more than once), or because they didn't bother bringing notes to class, or felt they didn't need to study. If you want to stay here, you like Business and Computer Science, then it appears to be a good place to stay. (BTW, I'm a CE major and I will automatically get Computer Science and Business minors just from being in the Raikes School).</p>
<p>Anyway, I'm happy to be here. Hope this helps add to the discussion.</p>
<p>ps, Bigredmed, are you here in Kauffman as well?</p>
<p>Thanks for your input from a student's perspective. It's nice to hear. Do you mind me asking if you are male or female and what is the ratio there in that program? It was very cut-throat to get in, wasn't it?</p>
<p>noo...nope I'm not and never was...I graduated the same year as those Agile Sports guys did (I assume those guys are pretty famous within the prorgram). I know one of those guys personally, and we share a fair number of mutual friends.</p>
<p>@orangepop: I'm a male. In the Freshman class, I believe there are 11 girls. This is one of the higher saturations of females in the program. There are 37 total freshman so its around a third.</p>
<p>@bigredmed: They are fairly well known - the company is often mentioned when they talk about where graduates have gone.</p>
<p>As for cut throat... I think I can say this because this username is fairly well isolated from me, but... I'm not sure exactly how cut throat. I want to say "VERY!!" which is how they depict it... but honestly, there's no way of knowing.</p>
<p>What I do know is that almost half of the freshman are from the lincoln/omaha area... which is fine -- it may just indicate that not a lot of people, farther away know about the program... but it makes me wonder how large the disparity is between the top of the accepted people and the bottom rungs of those accepted.</p>
<p>Anyway, I hope this helps... I'll keep checking back here to see if anyone else has any questions.</p>