<p>My son is a freshman Jazz Bass player at a top conservatory. Before this year our son almost assumed he was going to have to go to graduate school. Our son talked about getting a masters and teaching. He recently told us that he was told by professional musician that by his Junior or Senior year school should be a nuisance for our son. This made me uncomfortable when our son told us this because it almost sounded like this guy was telling our son that by Junior year if you are going to make it you should be ready to just move on from school and out into the world.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether our son has what it takes to make it in the music business I want our son to complete his degree. I don't want him to get cocky or think that just because he is gigging as a freshman he can make it as a full time musician as an adult. </p>
<p>What do other's think about this strange advice our son was given? Just curious.</p>
<p>Wow!! I’m really sorry you’re dealing with this. I really don’t have any advice. Remember he’ll be a different person at 20 than he is now at 18 and he may see the light. </p>
<p>I’m lucky my own son idolizes professors at top conservatories/universities. He has also watched his private teacher, a Curtis graduate at that, struggle with the bankruptcy of the major symphony of which he was a member. This has really had a huge impact on what he’d like to pursue in the music world. </p>
<p>Strongly encourage him to finish his degree…We have a family friend who is about 50. He went to Berklee for percussion. By his junior year in college, he went on a national tour and for the next 8 years he was playing all over the world and living the dream life. At the of the 8 years, he decided that he was tired and tried to go back to school to complete his degree. Unfortunately, due to his musical and life experience at that time, he found he had little respect for music academia and dropped out again. He continued playing gigs on a regional level and made a nice living. However, now at 50 years old, he is really tired of working weekends and nights and has cut back his playing quite a bit and is only taking gigs for the fun of it. For his day job, he is a carpenter. He truly wishes he had put off the touring gigs for 2 more years and completed his degree. Several years ago, son was playing in a pit orchestra and the piano player was a Berklee drop out who quit school to tour. He strongly advised son to finish his degree and to follow the music after the degree. He was telling son that the hotel rooms get boring and when the tour is over, the money is over, too.</p>
<p>I have heard this is common at schools like Berklee, though it may be changing. There is an attitude in the professional world of jazz or popular music that if you are good enough to make it, you don’t need to finish school, and finishing may even mean that you are not good enough to make it. </p>
<p>This is, or has been, common in the area of dance too, although the dance world has gone through a significant change in terms of academic focus. Faculty are mostly advance degree holders now, not artists who worked a lifetime in the art itself. I have heard choreographers brag that all their dancers have college degrees, which means, presumably, they are not compliant “instruments” but active participants in the creative process.</p>
<p>I also see this attitude in computer science. Students do internships and are offered lucrative jobs before graduating, and some fall off the academic track.</p>
<p>In the end, this may be a choice that is up to your son. Your family values the degree and you can communicate this to him. On the other hand, don’t be shocked by this advice, which is present in many fields-or used to be, before a bachelor’s became the “new high school diploma.”</p>
<p>Don’t forget that if your son is lured by immediate opportunity in jazz performance, he can always go back and finish, in music or in some other field. And taking time off to be a professional may, in fact, stoke enthusiasm for studies later. Flexibility about the future should lend a bottom-line calm to the discussion, I guess…as long as he doesn’t burn bridges and money is not a huge factor.</p>
<p>If I’m correct in assuming which conservatory your son is in, then I have heard a number of musicians and students comment that many students do leave that conservatory around junior year to strike out on their own. The assumption is that if you have not made it in the jazz world by then, you are not good enough.</p>
<p>As a saxophonist, my daughter has studied with a number of jazz professionals. Some of them say similar things. One jazz saxophonist she’s studied with, who has made a name for himself, is a recording artist, never went to college. He is of the view that one only goes to college if one does not yet have sufficient contacts by the end of high school. Of course, things were different 30 or so years ago. This same jazz saxophonist also tells my daughter that if he had that college degree, he could get more teaching jobs today than he currently does.</p>
<p>The more talented the student in any art the harder it is to tough out the degree. But I always referred our D to our best friend, a brilliant painter. He was snatched out of art school by Disney. The money was great and the work was good. But like anything else…work and styles shift. He went to school and finished his undergrad, but to this day he regrets not going to grad school. Great painter, makes a middling income, but would LOVE to snag a secure job as a teacher at a good school in order to have the security for his young family. But they demand an MFA. D’s private teacher during the HS years…same story.
I can tell you that with D getting her BM and her MM, she takes for granted why she has had so many teaching offers. She has taught summer music courses at a top ten U, extension courses, and teaches voice on at a professional acting school. This summer, she’s heading an intensive voice program for aspiring HS musical theater kids. Even though she makes it clear to each person hiring her that, “if I get performance work I will leave but promise you I will find an apt replacement”. And she has left each of those jobs at a certain point for performance work and though it’s clear that performance is still her focus, every one of these schools has told her “the job is always here if you want it”. And in this world…that is a warm and fuzzy feeling.</p>
<p>While people may regret not finishing when it was paid for parents and they were unencumbered by kids, mortgage, or health problems, it is still true that the majority of college students, in this day and age, are not of traditional age and there are more paths than at any other time, for doing this: low residency programs (Goddard is great for music and the arts), online, continuing education classes are flourishing. Schools from Berklee to Bennington to Harvard will take older students on, as well. </p>
<p>I am not of one opinion or the other on this, but for balance, I would ask, how many of those who finish a degree in jazz performance, or anything else, regret finishing and giving up the opportunity to follow their “passion” for those years. What experiences would they have missed? And was that degree the right one, or would it have been better to leave, perform, then go back for something else?</p>
<p>These are complicated questions and the most respectful way to deal with our kids, I think, it to treat it that way, which it seems the original poster is doing.</p>
<p>Just because you could be ready to gig full time doesn’t mean that you should. There are so many areas to explore in a music school and so many other talented kids - so why leave? He could always get some aspect of his playing or his life view expanded. It depends on the kid. Sometimes when a kid is in at an expensive school with a financial package that is mostly crappy loans and he’s running up a huge debt, I’ve seen teachers make the same suggestion but it’s because of the money and the teacher is trying to be responsible. But if the money is OK why not enjoy the learning opportunities? I’ve been working as a bassist all my life and believe me when I say it only gets harder and harder to be free enough to learn about music from Bali or something like that. Why rush into the difficult part? I discovered later that I enjoyed teaching and was kept out of a few good music schools because I lacked the BM. Listen to a middle aged dad that is just about to load his amp into the car one more time…</p>
<p>Not going to grad school is one thing… and conventional wisdom says it’s a good idea to wait a few years between undergrad and grad. As a parent I would be uncomfortable about my kid leaving school before graduation. OTOH, Berklee is incredibly expensive (or is NEC-- same point!) and there is a not-to-be-ignored counterargument that saving the $100K+ (and interest on loans) would not be un-prudent. Perhaps he could test the waters with a “professional leave of absence”, which is common in conservatories. Having a diploma is not going to enhance his career as a performing musician (beyond whatever he would learn during that time in school)) but having a degree could make a difference if he ends up wanting to work in a music-related field.</p>
<p>Compmom—I understand the “regrets” if you are in a performing art where time is not on your side. We understand the regret aspect in acting, dance and even musical theater. Fields where youth is sometimes an essential in landing roles.Good example would be D’s Ugrad room mate who left as a sophomore to perform in the original bway cast of Spring Awakening. But music performance? Possibly in popular music, but in jazz? Any insight jazz musicians? Older twenty somethings need not apply?</p>
<p>Thanks everyone…and I LOVE the comparison to Computer Science because that is something both my DH and I can talk about with our son because it is a field we are qualified to comment on. That is sooo helpful. I really think the issue is that our son needs to think about the long-term as well as the short term. He knows that gigs are harder as you get older unless you are super-famous. And he knows his share of middle aged musicians who have talked to him about how the gig thing gets old or is challenging if you are a father of young kids. He knows that almost all Jazz musicians teach. I don’t think I have to worry about this in the short-term. But this was the first time I heard him talk like this and I want to plant “seeds” now. I feel strongly that he should finish his degree and I also want him to take time to take some non-music classes at an affiliated university. He has other interests but HS killed his desire to pursue them because he is mildly dyslexic and the tedium of HS just made it too painful. But I suspect he would, as our other son has, find college classes in those subjects considerably easier.</p>
<p>All your comments were very helpful…now to go “plant some seeds” the next time I see him (which ironically will be at a gig in NY).</p>
<p>PS: On the positive side it is nice to hear our son talk positively about himself as a musician. He often is very negative about his playing.</p>
<p>StacJip, gigging can be such a positive motivator for our kiddos. it is the first time someone is willing to PAY them to do what they love! Congrats to your son for being at that level! As a parent though, gigging can be downright scary! Our 16 year old has been gigging for the past 2 years and earns a fabulous hourly rate. More than both Mom & Dad! I’m afraid that it will ruin him and that he won’t want to work for less :p. Your son is lucky to have such wise parents! Good luck with your seeds.</p>
<p>Glass harmonica, I didn’t realize that it was common for music kids to take time off between undergrad and grad school. Is this for all instruments? What are some reasons for this?</p>
Until recently, it was not common for musicians to go on to grad school. I would say that it is common in most professions to take some time off. Reasons? To earn some money to pay back loans. To grow as a human being, intellectually and in other ways.</p>
<p>OK that makes sense - I thought it Might be similar to taking a gap year after high school to prepare for auditions, etc. I was over thinking it!</p>
<p>StacJip, the advice does not especially surprise me, but in your shoes, I’d be combating it any way I could, because like you, I feel there is some future value in completion of the degree that possibly surpasses and compensates for the intermediate vicissitudes of performing.</p>
<p>For example, evil mom that I am, I have had mcson take loans to contribute to his university cost these last four years. If he doesn’t graduate, they’re HIS ENTIRELY. If he does graduate (and graduate on time) (and yes, it looks like that’s happening in two months ;)) then I will split them 50/50. Call it a little extra motivation to stick it out :)</p>