@Parlabane So dismissive!
@Sue22 The market for the 600ish size is clear from the size of many of the largest schools save A & E. Really its more like low 5s to high 6s, but you get the idea. For sure you gotta be big enough to compete but not so big you dilute your endowment per student. Growth in any business is always complex, but that’s true everywhere. There can be smaller schools that do their thing, but if they grew, you would most likely see them float to that Goldilocks Zone.
Groton is a unique case as they are a tip-top school staying small. It works for them.
And all the considerations of bigger vs smaller and participation and everything are true, but that was not really what I was talking about.
I’m not anti-day student. At all, but boarding schools are boarding schools. Day students are not the prime focus of a boarding school. No biggie for most folks, but to pretend otherwise is foolish.
@MAandMEmom Yep. That’s the usual pattern.
@Sue22 Regarding the path of the most selective schools and those who wish to be–leaving out the hard-line religious or odd niche schools or very small schools with extremely limited resources, which I was not discussing–it may appear that they say they are trying to differentiate and invoke some nonsense marketing speak for the next generation, but are they really? I say no. And if you look closely, you will see the ways all the schools are courting the same small customer base. That’s what I was getting at, not that any one school will use round tables and another will not. I don’t consider something such as that such a revolution that it changes outcomes based on any data I’ve ever seen.
@GnarWhail: Bottom line, good luck with your prospective student this cycle. I hope he/she gets into a school that has the swimming, crew, and academics that you are seeking and does not have that “Yale stink” that you mentioned. However, letting your child make the final decision may force you to lower your “standards.” Best of luck.
@GnarWhail, Groton is not unique in terms of size. I don’t have a problem with it if you and your child prefer schools in the 600+/- range, but please don’t post information without looking at the facts. Here are some numbers from Boarding School Review for schools accepting fewer than 40% of applicants:
Between 500 and 700 (a 200 student range):
Milton Academy (K-12)
Deerfield
Hotchkiss
Peddie
St. Albans
St. Paul’s
Taft
Berkshire
Loomis Chaffe
Hill
NMH
Kent
Tabor
Between 300 and 400 (a 100 student range):
Brooks
Groton
Middlesex
St. George’s
Westminster
CA
St. Andrew’s
St. Marks
Canterbury
Emma Willard
Millbrook
Perkiomen
Pomfret
Portsmouth Abbey
Salisbury
As to what differentiates schools from one another, I’ll leave you to discover that on your own. Good luck with your search.
@mexusa Thanks so much!
@Sue22 Groton is not unique in its size–but I never said that. Groton is unique in that it is considered among the very best two or three or four boarding schools in the USA despite said smaller size.
I’m sorry that you don’t seem to want to read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote.
Thanks so much!
@GnarWhail I appreciate your ‘real’ insights. There is always a core process or ‘how stuff works’ in every ecosystem, sometimes that is clear, but most of the time it is not. Of course BS’s have a process and motivations and are always trying to be better (better to their students in all ways, including increasing selectivity, which increases endowment, which means better facilities). I would LOVE to be a fly on the admission committee wall at BS or at a college where they set these quotas and make these decisions. That’s where the true school goals trickle down to as they build the class. I don’t think these decisions come from a bad place or are done with bad intentions - the goal is to keep the school viable and improving.
Re: Day students… true, schools try and reduce them so that boarders are a larger proportion since that looks better for parents who are paying big bucks for their kids to board - they don’t want their kids to have an empty campus on Sunday. But, as you said, day students in affluent areas of New England come from a very diverse, talented (athletically, etc…), and smart (high stats) pool. They do add a lot to the school culture since they are from the area and bring those experiences to the school- including having kids in their homes etc… The BEST day students are smart, talented and full pay! Trifecta! In New England, its not hard to find those students and BS’s will continue to have ‘the right sized’ portion of the school as Day students. (I think that number is 25-30%, same number as the ‘right size’ number of Internationals- also all Full Pay, and bring diversity).
Note: the topic of PGs has not even been discussed. To me, they add no value to the high school experience for ANY students…but they have their function… winning championships.
Oh jeeze. I would just chime in here @GnarWhail that in 2015 none of these schools has to work terribly hard to attract enough full pay students to fill the beds, nor do I feel their decisions on size and day/border ratios are driven by the need to keep themselves afloat financially. It seems there are more than enough 1%ers chasing the “stink of Yale” to fill every bed and locker at Groton or PEA several times over. These elite schools have acceptance rates that are equal to an Ivy league college’s, some below 20%, and a few have endowments to match. They do not have to chase down every trend in education or ECs to keep their applicant pools growing.
One could argue that now international students, who are almost uniformly full pay at boarding schools, are also helping to keep these schools humming today but I don’t see any schools in a panic, as some were in the 70s, that their market base is in danger of disappearing any time soon. Like any business, the schools need to define their market niche (and they are all slightly different) in order to attract the right students to fit their ethos and they need to evolve with the times (Last decade it was LEED certified dorms, now it is all about social justice programs. You will notice the trends mirror what the colleges are seeking at any given moment because that does motivate BS program reforms). However, none of the successful schools are running around like Chicken Little in a panic that they will have to cut the lacrosse program if they don’t accept more day students. Tragically however, slashed budgets are driving the decisions to slash programs at many US Public Schools right now.
I have followed this discussion with great interest. We are in the process of applying to BS for our DS (current 8th grader). We toured many of the schools that are being talked about on this thread and they are all fantastic schools!!! For various reasons, some of these FANTASTIC schools did not make the final-cut-to-apply list. I think the comments from @GnarWhail have been very interesting in that it appears he/she has experience and insight into the “mystery” of these schools. Other posters are equally interesting to me in offering their perspectives on their children’s schools or experience with other schools. Based on my own experiences, I will assess the information that is being offered, decide what I believe, what I may want to investigate further, or outright reject. Personally, I have not found the tone of this thread to be inappropriate, but I do understand that this board is anonymous for a reason, and I have to keep that in mind in considering the commentary that is offered. Personally, I don’t think it is appropriate to ask people to identify how they know certain things, rather, I think as users of this board, we each have to decide how to process the information offered. If someone posts, “I think School A is terrible and so does everyone else.” and that’s the extent of their input, I am going to reject that piece of information (maybe others will not); If someone posts, based on my BS experience as a student and parent, “I have found School B to offer a warm, nurturing environment and think the small size lends to experience”, I will take that input and decide to investigate through other means, whether that is in fact true, if we have an interest in that particular school. I think respectful, strong differences of opinion (which I think has been going on here) is extremely valuable, especially for our family as we navigate through this process. I do agree, however, that blanket statements (some true, some debatable) can cause certain sensitivities to flare Just my two cents.
The original question is merely theoretical. “Optimal size” has significance assuming that all schools are otherwise equal, which of course is rubbish. Families make decisions based on all sorts of reasons such as - how far away is it? Can I get there without changing planes? Does it offer fencing, video production, advance math, etc. Moreover “size” is a question of value not number. If a student feels welcome and connected in a school of 1000, does that mean she/he will feel even more so in a school of 500? Possibly but likely randomly.
The hidden truth of all of this is that most parents are taking a big roll of the dice hoping that the school they choose, or chooses their kid, will be a good fit. Another hidden truth - parents rely a lot of the schools’ reputations but the schools’ realities for the kids vary a lot depending on who is leading them, who is teaching their specific classes, and who happens to be in your class/dorm/house. Same with college. The common assumption of a consistent brand, as if a living community were a mass produced shirt with logo, consistent year after year after year, is a serious error.
At any rate, few there are who have the luxury of making a school acceptance decision based on size. Usually, applicants make their choices from amongst those schools that take them, if any do.
Completely agree, size wasn’t really much of a factor at all in our family’s application and decision process. In fact, after acceptances & revisits, DD’s top two schools were Exeter and Cate. Complete opposites on the size (and many other factors) scale! The final decision was made on perceived fit based on a very limited amount of time on each campus. Fortunately, in her case the “gut” reaction was the correct one and her BS experience thus far has surpassed expectations.
Although truthfully, I’m more in the “bloom where planted” camp and believe that a successful transition into either school would have been likely.