<p>National averages are about 3.55/31. Of course there are other key elements.</p>
<p>Oh, I remember organic. Was so freaked out about that class. I took it during the summer between my freshman and sophomore year. Two summer sessions, took I,
then II. Took the lab in the fall of sophomore year, dropped it, then wound up having to take it during the summer at the end of school so I could graduate. </p>
<p>The key to organic is your teacher. First session was a physical chemist, not really a good teacher, not very helpful.</p>
<p>My second session was Dr. Harry Schultz. If any of you attended University of Miami, you know him well. Boy, he kept you on your toes. He was older, but ran up and down the steps of that lecture hall, asking questions, and pointing at you for the answer.</p>
<p>But, instead of belittling you if you didn’t know the answer, he moved quickly on to another person.</p>
<p>Harry’s advice to all of us that to do well in organic chemistry, and to do well on your MCATs, you need to feel it in your heart.</p>
<p>His final exam was a national organic chemistry exam, and we all got an A on it. I know I had to have, because I went into the final with a C, and got a B in the course. </p>
<p>And let me tell you, a B in organic is a pretty huge accomplishment.</p>
<p>So my advice would be to take it in the summer, get in the class with a good teacher, ask your teacher questions, and yes, work those problems!</p>
<p>Do they still use Morrison and Boyd? Oh, my goodness, they used that 25 years ago when I was in college.</p>
<p>And it is a weed out class, I’m sure, although I think first year Bio is pretty much a weed out course, too. But if you don’t get an A in organic, don’t give up on med school. Chances are, most of your med school classmates will not have gotten an A, either. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Must you get an A for application to Med school?
Someone told my husband you should not even think of applying unless you have an A. I did see someone on here had a C.
Professor told D’s class today he hardly ever gives an A out. Her class is all pre-med, pre-vet. Everyone feels defeated already.</p>
<p>BRM and I both have C’s. We got into a combined seven or eight schools.</p>
<p>lamthemom,
D’s class average usually was around 60% in Orgo tests. Do not give up before it starts, though. If your D. works hard, “A” is doable. There is no reason to have lower goal, but be mature and accepting at the end knowing that nothing more could have been done.</p>
<p>I am always curious about this: Supoose that the class average is 60 out of 100. What score do you need to order to secure an A, A- or B+?</p>
<p>I could be wrong here, but I believe that as long as MOST (not all) of your grades are evenly distributed among these 3 grades, your accumulated GPA may be good enough, i.e., not becoming your big liability. Of course, more A or A-, fewer B+ or B or worse, the better.</p>
<p>According to math, you are correct. 50% A and 50% B will be 3.5, correct? Unfortunately, there is no additional points for A+. D had few of A+ but we never understood what was the point of giving A+, they are not above 4.0, we know that for that fact, while A- is below 4.0.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You won’t know unless you know the distribution of scores (ie the std. deviation). For a test with an average of 60, the standard deviation was usually in the 15-20% range for my school. This means that although 60 was a B (equivalent to 85%), you had to score a 80% in order to get an A or A- (the equivalent of 90-93%). So, you do 20% better before the curve in order to end up 7% better after the curve. Hence, why it’s easy to get a B but difficult to get an A in science courses.</p>
<p>mcat2- it would depend on the standard deviations (assuming the class is curved). If most people scored very close to 60 on both sides of the curve, then the A is going to be at a lower cut off than if there was a very wide distribution of grades. I would say that, in my experience with classes that had near 60 averages, most A cut offs tend to be 80-90. That includes the A-, A, and A+ range though. I can’t say I’ve ever seen an A of any kind given for lower than 80%.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP- that would be the case (as long as there are no +/- considerations). I agree with you, I was always very frustrated with the A+ thing. I agree with the +/- system, but I feel like A’s should not have +/- adjustments due to the fact that A+ grades are essentially worthless outside of internal university calculations of GPA due to the fact that many universities do not have +/- systems.</p>
<p>norcalguy and mmmcdowe- Both of you pointed out correctly that I need to specify both the mean and the std. deviation in order for you to answer my question. I guess the sharp minds tend to speak the same (i.e., to catch my error.) It is sloppy for me to raise this kind of improper question. Thanks for the correction.</p>
<p>I vaguely remember that my child once told me that one of his premed friends told him that you need to score roughly 12 (or 15? I could not remember) points above the mean (when the mean is, say, 70) to receive some form of A’s, and he later found out it may not be enough. I guess they too talked about this topic carelessly, without paying attention to the crucial information - std. deviation.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>I’m a chemistry major with As in both my semesters of OChem. To rehash what has already been said, the main rules are:</p>
<ol>
<li>If it’s in acid, will it be protonated? If it’s in base, will it be deprotonated? Which proton will be removed and where will the extra one add?</li>
<li>Is it a nucleophile or an electrophile? What could it attack/be attacked by?</li>
<li>Is your leaving group reasonable? Is it a puny halide or a ridiculous hydride? Strong bases are unlikely to leave.</li>
</ol>
<p>So clearly you’ll need to know PKas (my course emphasized this to no end; [url=<a href=“http://www.chem.moravian.edu/~rdlibby/CHEM211-212/Class/B.%20Class%20Units/B.%20Equilibrium%20Controled%20Rxns/b.%20Acid%20Base%20Rxns/CGA%20%207%20Acid-Base%20-%201/211%2005%20Act%207%20ClDisc.html]here[/url”>http://www.chem.moravian.edu/~rdlibby/CHEM211-212/Class/B.%20Class%20Units/B.%20Equilibrium%20Controled%20Rxns/b.%20Acid%20Base%20Rxns/CGA%20%207%20Acid-Base%20-%201/211%2005%20Act%207%20ClDisc.html]here[/url</a>] is a good guide for that). You better have a damn good reason for putting a negative charge on a carbon or a positive charge on an oxygen and when you do there should always be resonance structures (or proton exchange) associated with those charges.</p>
<p>To sum it up in one sentence: There are no cations in base nor anions in acid. This is a critical fact that isn’t told to you directly but intuited from hundreds of practice problems. Know it; but more importantly, know why it makes sense.</p>
<p>Reading ns9908’s post gave me flashbacks. I really hated orgo, though some of that blame lies with me for not putting in enough time to properly learn the material.</p>
<p>The piece of advice I’d like to give is that orgo is one class out of many that will appear on your transcript. It is not the end of the world if you get a C, as evidenced by BDM’s continued success during his post-graduate education.</p>
<p>I’m not entirely sure who ns9908 is responding to, but that last summation has exceptions. HSO4- is a “strong” weak acid and a anion, as are other polyprotic acids. Further, conjugated systems are capable of being anionic and still acidic (or at least not basic) in the proper conditions. For example, if you have the ability to become aromatic by deprotonation, it will take a heck of a lot of acid to keep that from happening). Those proper conditions would be acidic conditions (I’m sure there are basic and cationic example too but I never was a base man) that aren’t as low in pH as the pKa of the acids in question.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You’re entirely right, in base there can be tetraalkylammonium salts and several other intermediates, but in general I think that’s good advice. Most conjugated systems will become aromatic through a concerted mechanism though so I don’t think that particular exception applies.</p>
<p>D is just starting orgo this semester. She thinks she will like it more than gen chem. She is a “visual” learner. Would this be an asset for orgo?</p>
<p>Absolutely GA2012MOM. It definitely helped me when I had to, say, rotate a molecule in my head to figure out what the orientation of a reaction/product would be. It may also help in remembering how electrons move around during certain reactions, or what the general form of a class of reactions is.</p>
<p>GA2012MOM,
That would be unusual, but everybody is different. My D. is just happy to have Orgo behind her, according to her, it was almost pure memorization vs Gen Chem which is mostly conceptual (analytical). But this opinion is from a person who consideres Gen. Chem easiest of her college classes (most test grades were over 100%) so far and works for Gen. Chem prof.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So is my S. From what I can tell, orgo gives him more pressure than general chemistry or any biology class. (Biochem may be another challenging class for him, esp. its lab.)</p>
<p>I think, for him, in terms of difficulty, orgo I > orgo II. It is most likely because he was half-a-year younger and not so mature when he took orgo I. (That is, not very used to the demand of the college-level class yet.)</p>
<p>For some reasons, there were much fewer students taking orgo II than orgo I in his year. I wonder whether it is because the professor of his orgo II is notoriously famous for his practice of giving exactly 3 problems in a mid-term. (maybe twice of that in a final) and there is usually little or no partial credit for the type of problems he gives.</p>
<p>Ironically, in the process of preparing for MCAT, he is more confident of orgo than general chemistry. He has the least worry for Physics, for some unknown reason. (he claimed that MCAT physics can be crammed at the last minute – I really do not know whether this is true.) He tends to score one point or two lower on his PS section than BS section in his practice tests.</p>
<p>BTW, is Berkeley Review any good for general chemistry? How about ExamKracker for general chemistry.</p>
<p>asking for a friend. Has anyone ever used the textbook for orgo by john mcmurry. is it good? bad? are there better textbooks you’d recommend.</p>
<p>It has always been my experience that not using the class textbook is not worth the trouble, even if the class text is poor. That being said, there are plenty of organic chemistry supplementary materials worth exploring.</p>