other parents' experience with out of sync gpa and test scores

<p>Hi. Any help or ideas/opinions from those of you out there who have experience with the following would be much appreciated.</p>

<p>Our child, a junior, had always been a good student (mostly A's with a smattering of B's) until sophomore year of high school. A friend died in a car accident the summer following freshman year and our child began going downhill from there. Long story that I don't want to relate, in order to protect our child's anonymity. So, s/he had two years of difficulty in high school and has started to slowly emerge from the slump, and at the same time doesn't seem very motivated to do the work necessary to get grades up to the level they were prior to difficulties. S/he takes AP and honors classes. Long and short of it is this: ACT score is in the low 30's but gpa is only 3.3 (unweighted) and s/he is only in the top 30% of class. The scholarships at schools s/he is looking at require a combination of at least a 3.5 gpa along with the ACT score. S/he only has the ACT score.</p>

<p>Now what? How do colleges view this type of profile? Bigger issue is this: s/he wants to go out of state for college. As parents we wonder whether or not our child is emotionally mature enough or ready for this, given the motivational issue. On the other hand, some kids that were low on motivation in high school flourish once they get away and find their own niche.</p>

<p>Any thoughts would be appreciated.</p>

<p>I strongly advise your child choose a small LAC, so s/he can get professors who know your child’s potential. I’d also like to suggest your child pick a school that’s not too too far away. The actual distance doesn’t really need to be all that far away, since living away at school creates the distance, not the mileage. But, when and if your kid needs to feel the safety of home, you can be there at a moment’s notice.</p>

<p>Read the 3.0 - 3.3 and the 3.3 to 3.6 threads from this years bunch of parents/seniors. These are very lengthy threads but settle in and you’ll find some great advice and some great options related to the GPA/score and also maturity. There are many kids with uneven GPA/standardized test scores and there are many options for a 3.3 unweighted depending on the what that means relative to the particular high school and relative to the rigor of the transcript. I haven’t kept up with these threads, but I think they were trying to get new threads going for this year’s bunch although reading through last years threads would be a good foundation.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/707436-new-3-0-3-3-gpa-parents-thread.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/707436-new-3-0-3-3-gpa-parents-thread.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/869995-3-3-3-6-gpa-parents-thread.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/869995-3-3-3-6-gpa-parents-thread.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You don’t say what you can afford. Schools won’t bend the scholarship requirements, so is the question whether you should pay for the OOS colleges?</p>

<p>I’ll speak from experience, maybe it will help you:</p>

<p>I had never been away from home and my parents were absolutely sure I wouldn’t last at an out of state college. Not only out of state, but a large, public school as well. My mom wanted me to stay local, but I said I wanted to get out of state and try something new.</p>

<p>I learned to be independent and made remarkable strides growing as an individual. The thing about being a plane ride away from home is that I couldn’t just go home on the weekends, I had to learn to keep myself busy and to deal with some tough situations and loneliness. I learned to sort out priorities and realize what was truly important. </p>

<p>It varies from person to person, but if your child wants to go out of state and truly believes he/she can succeed, I would encourage you to let him/her give it a shot. But make the deal that if he/she does go away, he/she needs to give it at least a year before wanting to leave and return home.</p>

<p>Based on the course level and ACT score, your child is obviously capable of excelling and doing your best to encourage him/her to work towards acheiving goals is the best thing you can do as a parent.</p>

<p>A lot will depend on which schools your child wants to apply to.</p>

<p>If s/he is interested in mid-tier out of state schools, then she’ll likely get admitted with the current stats. Some might even give her a scholarship. </p>

<p>However, if the goal is ivies/elites, then the GPA will be a problem.</p>

<p>What is the weighted GPA? </p>

<p>The student may want to go OOS to avoid memories of the lost friend.</p>

<p>Losing a good friend to a tragic death is numbing. I hope your child has been to therapy. When our best man drowned in a flash flood (after saving the life of a child who fell in the water), my H was a mess for quite some time. After seeing a therapist, he was able better deal with the loss of his very best friend. </p>

<p>What schools is your child interested? or, should I say, what kind of schools? Big, small, rah rah big sports, quiet???</p>

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<p>My son has an almost identical profile (3.2 UWA, 3.8 WA, top 30% of an very academic challenging college prep school, NMSF and 31 ACT). The elites and Ivies are generally out of the question unless there are some stellar and compelling ECs. He was denied at Chicago, UNC-Chapel Hill, W&M, wait-listed at Emory, Michigan and GWU and accepted at UGA, Clemson, Wofford, South Carolina Honors College and Oxford College at Emory. He did get scholarship offers at several of these schools.</p>

<p>Had he applied to more mid-range LACs, he would have gotten a lot more scholarship $$.</p>

<p>Your D would be considered a very competitive student at a lot of schools, particularly the more mid-range ones.</p>

<p>Can’t speak to the out-of-state issue. My son originally was adamant he was going out of state but the reality is most of his friends are staying in state and after seeing that, he seemed to change his tune. A lot of their thinking changes during the course of senior year. What she says now may be totally different by spring of senior year. My advice is to have her apply to a good mix of schools - in state and out of state, so she has some choices come next spring, should she decide she doesn’t want to go out of state after all.</p>

<p>If she chooses the right schools, she will be eligible for scholarship money. My one regret with son is we didn’t research the scholarship aspect of colleges more. We weren’t thinking of that at the time he applied because we knew we could afford to send him to most schools without scholarship aid. That was before the $50,000 a year price tag at most non-public schools really sunk in to our brains. Yes, we could afford it but it’s still a lot of money over 4 years, especially since son will be going to grad school. It all worked out as he chose to stay in state at one of his reach schools - they gave him scholarship $$ and the state also gives scholarship money, so we’re good. But if I had to do it all over I would have spend the summer before senior year researching the merit aid thing more carefully. There’s a lot available to kids in this GPA/Score range but you have to do some digging.</p>

<p>Thanks so much for your responses. More info. to consider: child is considering environmental engineering and has completed honors/AP classes in pre-calc and physics. B and B- in these classes. Will take calc Sr. year. Also interested in laboratory sciences; loves lab work. So are looking at schools that fit the profile. There’s one in-state school that is accredited by engineering organization in the environmental area of interest. </p>

<p>limabeans: child adamantly against small LAC as older sibling is going that route and wants to define self differently than older sib. </p>

<p>Redroses: yes, part of the question/concern is paying for OOS tuition, and our child floundering while so far away. Our family agreement is that child pays for half of school (thus the need for a scholarship.) </p>

<p>LSU8888: thanks for the perspective. A part of us as parents senses that our child needs to define self separate from older sib and wants out of the geographical area (midwest). Child has a friend attending school in Colorado and the outdoors/recreation aspect is appealing.</p>

<p>mom2 and MomLive: child has NO interest in Ivies/elites- not this kid’s thing. Child’s temperament is more laid back. Intellectually is a notch down from elite LAC’s, yet a notch up from local state school. Child seems conflicted as s/he has expressed surprise that friends don’t have more “drive;” they are content to attend local university. Some of them haven’t taken the rigorous classes that our child has. While child doesn’t judge them for that there’s some internal conflict between leaving friends and fulfilling capabilities/following one’s own “bliss.” </p>

<p>mom2: yes, the death was HUGE for our child and child has had counseling. Was on meds for awhile. The stress set off a spiral of inability to concentrate/ turn in work. So…as parents we wonder what will happen if/when child encounters stress when away at school. </p>

<p>Thanks again for your thoughts. My friends are helpful but also sometimes too close to stand back and see objectively. That’s why I post here!</p>

<p>child views in-state college with environmental engineering as on the same academic level as the local state college (not at a high enough level.) Yet, the in-state institution is, as I said earlier, accredited by engineering organization, has good reputation in engineering, great placement rates, etc. Child’s perception and fact that it’s in-state is the issue here.</p>

<p>With your child’s strong ACT score and decent grades in tough classes s/he’s a good candidate for admission to lots and lots of very good colleges. I wouldn’t worry about that for a minute. Whether s/he is a good candidate for paying out of state or private college tuition is an entirely different matter, especially if finances are an issue and the in state option is a perfectly sound one for his/her major. Personally, I’d insist on the in state route.</p>

<p>*yes, part of the question/concern is paying for OOS tuition, and our child floundering while so far away. Our family agreement is that child pays for half of school (thus the need for a scholarship.) *</p>

<p>Well, since your child needs to come up with funding for college, I would show my child the below link as an incentive to keep up grades and such. :)</p>

<p>Right now, the stats - GPA (if 3.5 Weighted) and ACT - is high enough for scholarships at some schools…but maybe not the ones on your child’s immediate radar. </p>

<p>Look over these threads for good scholarship ideas…</p>

<p>AUTO SCHOLARSHIPS…$$$ CC Important links to Auto Scholarships… </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>There was another thread that was recently started, but I can’t find it. It seems to have been deleted. :(</p>

<p>I hope your child understands that a state school (in-state or OOS) will have smart kids in the so-called harder majors (such an engineering). Also, many have honors programs which also provide a challenge to the higher stats child.</p>

<p>I also agree there is a mismatch between your child’s current “qualifications” and what kind of scholarship offers are out there. </p>

<p>Sit down and just present the following information as dispassionately as possible and then let it sink in for a few months over the summer (some kids take a long time to digest things):</p>

<p>1) your GPA/ACT is good enough to get you into here, here and here BUT
2) you are unlikely to get enough scholarship $$ for you to afford it
3) this state school is well ranked in your major AND affordable
4) in the end, college is what you make of it - you can go far at a mid-ranked instate school - you can challenge yourself while at a mid-ranked instate school AND there is always gradschool beyond</p>

<p>and add </p>

<p>5) just because you are good enough to get into an academic match or academic reach school does NOT mean your family can afford to send you there - so lets find some schools that are academic AND financial matches for you</p>

<p>Lots of kids lack perspective, engage in pie-in-the-sky thinking, or get stuck on the idea of “I’m super smart so the world of college admission owes me both admission AND scholarships.” Actually, parents can suffer from the same thing. Your child is lucky because you do have your head on straight - time now for a little bit of tough love in delivering the reality check!</p>

<p>Btw - if more parents would do steps 1 through 5 earlier on in the college search process many students and families would be much better off at this point. Good luck!</p>

<p>*I also agree there is a mismatch between your child’s current “qualifications” and what kind of scholarship offers are out there. *</p>

<p>I’m not sure about that. The student isn’t demanding to go to top, top schools. So, there are some scholarships for various OOS schools with the student’s stats if the weighted GPA is at least a 3.5 (which it sounds like it is) and the ACT is in the 30s.</p>

<p>I agree with the suggestion of showing the student…</p>

<p>1) With your stats, you can get into these schools with these scholarships, so they’ll be affordable.</p>

<p>2) With your stats, you can/might get into these schools, but you won’t get a scholarship, so they won’t be affordable.</p>

<p>3) these state schools have good programs in your major AND are affordable </p>

<p>4) in the end, college is what you make of it - you can go far at a mid-ranked instate school - you can challenge yourself while at a mid-ranked instate school AND there is always gradschool beyond</p>

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<p>I agree. The honors programs are usually very competitive. My son started out with this bias also (against the state U) until he realized that getting into our state university honors college was a reach for him (same stats as your D). He got in and is very grateful and will be attending in the fall. A large percentage of kids in our state university honors college were accepted to a Top 20 but chose the state honors college for financial reasons. At son’s honor college the avg SAT is 1450 and GPA 4.5. (Still not sure how son got in but he put a LOT of effort into those particular essays/short answer questions). You might want to check into the honors programs/colleges at your state schools.</p>

<p>I’m a student, not a parent, but I had pretty similar stats, maybe even more exaggerated - 3.3 UW with a few F’s and D’s, barely top third of the class, but a 2300 SAT. I prepared for the worst, but ended up getting into every school I applied to except for Princeton. There’s a good chance that if your daughter writes great essays and has good teacher recs, she’ll get into some wonderful schools.</p>

<p>As for the scholarships, well, that’s tougher. I applied to the U of Alabama as my safety, which guaranteed a scholarship, but had an EFC of zero so out of state private cost wasn’t really a problem for me as long as I could get in. But they’re out there. (Also, with Bama, it tripped me up at first that the required 3.5 can be weighted. I don’t know how many other schools are like this.)</p>

<p>I’m going out of state (waay out of state, to Claremont McKenna across the country) and as a small LAC it seems very nurturing. I’m not sure about large state schools, though I’m sure many are. It might be nicest to have choices between near schools and far ones; I think your daughter will know what’s right for her when the time comes. </p>

<p>Anyway, good luck!</p>

<p>anonymityy, did you get the presidents at UA? Did you receive any merit from Claremont McKenna. My S has similar stats and is looking South or West.</p>

<p>ldinct - I got…whatever the full scholarship is at Bama. Sorry, I can’t remember if that’s what it was called! But it was for National Merit Finalists, come to think of it, I’m pretty sure. My SAT scores would have qualified me for something like half-tuition, I believe.</p>

<p>And no, no merit aid at CMC. My cost of attendance was 100% covered though. My impression is it’s very, very difficult to get merit aid at CMC, but they have excellent need-based FA.</p>

<p>I did get merit aid from Tulane and Occidental.</p>

<p>^^^</p>

<p>If anonymityy got the NMF scholarship at Bama, then he/she didn’t need a 3.5 weighted GPA. No GPA is req’d for the NMF scholarship. The NMF scholarship covers all tuition, housing, and some other perks. </p>

<p>However, if Anonymityy wasn’t a NMF, then he/she would have needed an ACT 32+ or a SAT 1400+ (M+CR) and a 3.5 **weighted **GPA (including all classes, including PE, electives, religion, whatever) to get the Presidential full tuition scholarship for out of state students.</p>

<p>Thanks for everyone’s input. Much appreciated.</p>

<p>mom2collegekids - do you know if Bama recalculates GPA for schools that report unweighted GPA only on the transcript but indicate the classes of high rigor (AP and otherwise?)</p>