<p>o.k. I got it. Not, our EFC should be no where near the full COA of any school DD wants to attend. </p>
<p>I have tried the princeton review's EFC calculator. How close is the number to the real one?</p>
<p>You might want to compare it to Princeton University's Early Estimator. I thought it was fairly close when I used it a few years ago, though my kids did not apply to Princeton.</p>
<p>Through CC, we found finaid.org had calculators for both the institutional methodology as well as the federal methodology. Also check out the 568 Group for a discussion of the Consensus Methodology: <a href="http://568group.org/methodology/%5B/url%5D">http://568group.org/methodology/</a>.</p>
<p>"It is frustrating when you are frugal, think saving is the best thing and then aren't even considered for most merit aid because many scholarships still look at EFC even if they were merit based, not need based. Son completed many applications, but heard from many that if you have to put EFC down on application, they do look at it."</p>
<p>While I share with your frustration that FA calculations penalize savers, I saved and wouldn't have done it any other way. Being on the cusp of eligibility for FA, I thought it was better to suffer the 5% rather than be at the mercy of FA and/or merit scholarships.</p>
<p>As far as the assertion that many merit scholarships use EFC in their decisions, I didn't see that happen for any of the scholarships that my D applied to (UMichigan, WUSTL, Rice, Emory). If you have data to support the statement that EFC is used in evaluating scholarships that are explicity based on merit, that would be helpful for everyone to hear.</p>
<p>p.s. happy ending to the story. D got and accepted a full ride merit scholarship and so the money saved will go towards travel & other enrichment opportunities, professional school, her first home, early retirement...?</p>
<p>Perhaps it is because we live in a state with property values below those found in major urban areas, but the EFC for DD's first year in college was fine, actually affordable. However, I'm nervous about the years to come since our income has increased, but may fluctuate downward at some point.</p>
<p>Our EFC is reasonable and correct. Our EFC is affordable out of current income; we have two plain vanilla paychecks, don't have credit card debt, own our cars outright, both have defined benefit retirement plans (to which we do not contribute), and are sending both our kids to a private U that meets 100% of need. Basically everything that I earn goes to college, but we haven't had to take out any Plus loans or home equity loans yet - and we only have 3 more years to pay for, since DD is a senior, and I've already given her the lump sum she needs for living expenses. (With two kids in college, her U. is actually paying HER $1000 this year, towards living expenses/books. EFC split by two means all her tuition, etc. is covered by grants/scholarships.) Fingers crossed that we make it the whole way through on current income. And won't we feel positively flush with money, once the college payments stop!!!!! ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you have data to support the statement that EFC is used in evaluating scholarships that are explicity based on merit, that would be helpful for everyone to hear.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How do we know which ones are <strong>explicitly</strong> merit?</p>
<p>At any rate, just look up the Atlantic Monthly article from a few years back (3?) that discussed merit aid. It was in a September college issue.</p>
<p>My D received a bunch of scholarships. Exactly one of them - the Schambach at Hamilton had anything to do with need based that I know of anyway. I know because I never sent financials to many of the schools prior to merit awards. Now the box WAS checked "I am applying for need based aid" but no numbers.</p>
<p>I think people are getting confused about merit awards granted by colleges and universities. Most of the ones I know about, and that's a lot, have zero need component but if it makes some feel better to think that then that's O.K., too. Now a great many outside scholarships do require need. In my estimation most of them and almost all the good juicy ones. ;)</p>
<p>And while I'm at it.... contrary to some posts on a thread I read somewhere on CC today (and in my new less mentally capable state can't seem to find. Jeez. ): </p>
<p>Northwestern has no merit only aid,</p>
<p>Grinnell doesn't have full-rides for merit aid,</p>
<p>and Lawrence ain't that good on the merit front. Limited . My memory says no full tuition, no full-rides. I think 1/2 tuition may be the max. Not what I call good. Your definition may vary.</p>
<p>Good discussion. I’d like to elaborate on the vagaries of financial aid and the 568 Group I mentioned in my previous post. (Sorry, I had to run an errand.) </p>
<p>Your work is not done after you get an estimate from any number of calculators for both the Federal Methodology and the Institutional Methodology. As it has been discussed many times on CC, the actual awards can vary significantly from one institution to another even when they are all 100% need schools.</p>
<p>Our son’s list consisted of primarily 568 Group institutions who agree to a consensus methodology. We assumed there would be a consistent financial aid read since our financials are fairly straightforward. The reality was quite different. There was a significant variance in the calculation of need.</p>
<p>Therefore Dad II, since you posted on another thread about the number of apps, it is important to see the application process through to the Spring to compare financial aid awards. I know my S thought he was done after an early acceptance. The problem is that you do not get a financial aid read for the early action round until the Spring. </p>
<p>My H called the EA school and was able to get a pretty good understanding of what the EFC would be, and their information remained consistent. However when Spring and the other acceptances came in, we were floored by the differing calculations. I’m not talking about different loans/grant packaging; I’m referring to the actual calculation of need. </p>
<p>So my advice to anyone that needs to see the full financial aid picture is to see the process through. Don’t assume that 100% need will be enough just based on these calculators. There are surprises.</p>
<p>My definition of an "on the edge" EFC is $45,000, when looking at the more expensive schools.</p>
<p>At that level, anyone with fewer income/assets than you pays less.</p>
<p>And anyone who has more pays exactly what you do. Even Bill Gates.</p>
<p>newmassdad wrote in #37:
[quote]
And there is another "gotcha" in this business. FAFSA looks at data from IRS filings made (usually) by the previous April. So the actual tax year is the one that bridges sophomore - junior year (ie.e spring of soph, fall of jr year).</p>
<p>What this means is that by the time most folks figure out what's up, it is too late to do any financial engineering to minimize the pain. And doing financial engineering senior year does not help, as it will reduce the NEXT year's award.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm confused here. Are you telling me the the FAFSA folks are getting additional feeds from the IRS for tax years PREVIOUS to the year that you are filling out the forms for (which is the years spanning spring Jr and fall Sr NOT the spring Soph Fall Jr you indicated)?</p>
<p>I've heard of schools requesting your tax returns as part of an FA audit, but that would be the only tax info I've ever heard of being provided that didn't come from the parent/applicant.</p>
<p>Where did you learn this?</p>
<p>OK, you have a kid applying to enter college fall, 2008. As soon after January 1, 2008 as possible, you need to fill out FAFSA and maybe Profile with the information from your tax return for the year 2007. </p>
<p>Many people don't start looking into what is involved with financial aid until they actually have to fill out the forms (in early 2008), at which time it is too late to "engineer" their finances.</p>
<p>D attended a school that uses PROFILE
Every single year we filed FAFSA & PROFILE and submitted 1040 & w-2 forms for confirmation.
I admit that because I would file FAFSA and then have to correct it- that may have triggered documentation request- but after so many years of doing it- I just expected it.
You can always file FAFSA ASAP ( after jan 1st ) and then amend it when you get solid numbers. I felt it was better to be in queue than to wait till taxes were done
PROFILE also didn't ask certain questions after intial filing, for example the first year, they wanted to hear about our 37 year old 1/2 ton pickup and 12 year old van, but a couple years later they didn't care that we finally broke down and bought a new car.</p>
<p>My FAFSA EFC is reasonable -- I think it would be relatively easy for me to pay that without borrowing with a little bit of belt-tightening at home. </p>
<p>My Profile EFC is NOT, for 2 reasons: (1) home equity -- I live in a very small home in a working class neighborhood that I have owned for almost 20 years but of course the home value has increased significantly and after all this time I've paid down the mortgage somewhat. With my income I would not qualify to borrow on the equity.</p>
<p>(2) I am a single parent & my ex does not contribute to my daughter's support or college in any way, but his income is considered in the Profile.</p>
<p>Well....I've never seen a "Profile EFC". The schools that use the Profile use it in varying ways to determine need based aid. Now...if you're asking if I wished my EFC had been lower? Well...of course. But we're making it work.</p>
<p>Our FAFSA EFC exceeds the cost of attendance at every school in the country, including the most expensive one (Georgetown). Not that we can actually pay it. We're in the same boat as curmudgeon - a small S professional corporation with no hard assets and no "market value" since its value is based solely on the work of the members. The problem with an S corporation is that everything that comes in gets passed through to H and his partners regardless of whether that's their "salary" or what they bring home. So there is little "write off" since expenses are added back in. Our EFC is, I'm sure, correct. But not reasonable.</p>
<p>However, d got significant merit aid at every school that accepted her except one. These scholarships were clearly not need-based, as there was no "need" as defined either by FAFSA or by the Profile. It depends on the school whether they consider need in determining merit awards. Some specifically say they do (Brandeis), and some use need for certain scholarships but not for others, depending on the particular restrictions on the money that funds the scholarships (Muhlenberg, Rochester).</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm confused here. Are you telling me the the FAFSA folks are getting additional feeds from the IRS for tax years PREVIOUS to the year that you are filling out the forms for (which is the years spanning spring Jr and fall Sr NOT the spring Soph Fall Jr you indicated)?
[/quote]
[quote]
OK, you have a kid applying to enter college fall, 2008. As soon after January 1, 2008 as possible, you need to fill out FAFSA and maybe Profile with the information from your tax return for the year 2007.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Goaliedad, </p>
<p>As far as I know, they do not get feeds from the IRS, but they ask you to use the same data as you used to complete your tax returns AND they can audit you to see that you did so.</p>
<p>Fireflyscout,</p>
<p>I think you have your years mixed up. If a kid is entering college fall of 08, you would complete the FAFSA using the return you filed in the spring of 07, which covers the tax year 2006. The reason is that 07 tax year returns are not due until April 08. The powers that be rightly concluded that it would be unreasonable to expect people to file ahead of time (who even has the data before the end of January at the earliest? and heaven help someone with partnerships....), as the crunch would still be horrendous, as no one would be able to complete the FAFSA before early- mid february.</p>
<p>So, as you can see, the FAFSA data reaches pretty far back.</p>
<p>Yes, you estimate your FAFSA numbers for 2007 and you put in the actual 2006 income numbers when you first submit FAFSA (and same for Profile). But you then need to update the FAFSA and Profile information with the taxes you file in April 2008, so that the ultimate award is, in fact, based on your 2007 taxes for the 2008-2009 academic year. (And as noted above, they do also have your 2006 income figures on the same forms.)</p>
<p>At $83,000, I thought our EFC was okay, although I have not the slightest clue how accurate it was. Yes we could have easily afforded to pick up the full $40,000+ annual cost though thankfully we are only chipping in about $10k/yr.</p>
<p>On the question of scholarships based on need vs. merit: In Vermont, our statewide nonprofit college financing agency (VSAC) administers a lot of scholarships. It publishes a book every year with information about these. I would say that 98% of these scholarships required a FAFSA form and were need-based. If your EFC was too high, you wouldn't get the scholarship.</p>
<p>Based on our income and savings, our EFC was fair. Painful, but fair. My daughter did not receive any scholarships that had a need component, but did get some scholarships that were merit based. Those were very helpful.</p>
<p>I know this is petty semantics, but to me, something that is need-based is called a grant and merit-based is called a scholarship. Last year, I was pretty bummed at all these "scholarships" that had a need component. I got over it relatively soon, since I now know how few colleges actually meet 100% of need and understand how important these awards are.</p>