<p>Shennie,</p>
<p><catching up="" with="" some="" older="" posts=""> You may not want to give up on Oberlin just yet. In addition to the orchestra with all the conservatory students, They have a few groups that are oriented toward the rest of the community. One of the groups is a 40-member string orchestra. I have not heard them, so I don't know if they are what your #3 would consider "decent." Conservatory teachers are often available for private lessons with non-music majors. If not, there are always Juniors and Seniors in the conservatory available to give lessons under the guidance of their own teachers.</catching></p>
<p>They also mentioned a shuttle that runs between the campus and several locations in Cleveland. I forget whether it was only on weekends or possibly some weekday afternoons/evenings as well. (Or did you mean that easy access to Cleveland was UNdesirable?)</p>
<p>Driver, got it.</p>
<p>I've had several visits to Penn, and a lot of time at Chicago, of course, and find that Penn has a much more Urban feel. Maybe it's because busy streets bisect the campus, whereas the streets around Chicago are much slower paced. Hyde Park is a real walking enclave, and it is not unusual for students to walk 15 - 20 minutes to campus. </p>
<p>The south side of Chicago is undergoing a real renaissance. They're building $300,000 + townhomes in former rough neighborhoods. I suspect Hyde Park's safety reputation will take another decade to catch up with reality.</p>
<p>I cannot emphasize enough how different the feel of the two campuses is. You really need to visit to see. For instance, no high rise dorms on or near the campus.</p>
<p>"Conservatory teachers are often available for private lessons with non-music majors. If not, there are always Juniors and Seniors in the conservatory available to give lessons under the guidance of their own teachers."</p>
<p>My daughter is actually taking advantage of this right now. Moreover the lessons are FREE, if you pass an audition. It gets counted as a 2 credit, non-grade course. If she has time, she's thinking of joining one of the community music groups next year.</p>
<p>I didn't respond to this before because I don't know what the deal is so far as strings are concerned. On the face of it, the prospect of being "crowded out" of playing opportunities by the Conservatory students is a very reasonable concern. In fact, we had a tour guide at Carleton who said he chose Carleton over Oberlin for this very same reason. Fortunately Oberlin has developed these other performance options, and the lesson opportunities are a great bonus for us. Nevertheless, if this is important to OP's son he'll have to really investigate how satisfactory the opportunities really are for him.</p>
<p>As for transportation, I know they have a shuttle to the airport, that costs about $2. I don't know about elsewhere in Cleveland because it hasn't come up, I think. She's too busy to go anyway. If she did want to go, she has friends who have cars and I'm sure they would just drive there.</p>
<p>Monydad is right. The Oberlin shuttle goes to the airport and you can connect with Cleveland public transportation there to get into and around the city. It is run by Lorain County Transit - see <a href="http://www.loraincountytransit.com/routes/route33.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.loraincountytransit.com/routes/route33.shtml</a> for the schedule.</p>
<p>We are starting to work on the summer visit list and Oberlin is definitely on the list, partly because his viola teacher recommends he check it out. So we will see. There is a lot I like about Oberlin, but am hesitant about what musical opportunities he will really find for himself, but this is his process, not mine!</p>
<p>Oberlin is awesome, but D did not like it when we visited. She thought it was in the middle of a corn field (it is). She applied and was accepted to the conservatory and to the college (dual degree program) but didn't go. She did like the conservatory a lot, though.</p>
<p>Actually, it's located smack in the heart of a town of 8,000, I believe. It's not a long drive to the Cleveland suburbs, with the biggest malls you'd ever want. About the same distance again to Cleveland proper. The student body is pretty urbane, drawing tons from NYC and the Northeast. I didn't see corn when I was there, but it was winter. I'm sure there's some around. Outside the town, and between the town and the neighboring towns. </p>
<p>I guess you'd be able to drive by the corn fields to get to the suburban malls, if you weren't happpy with what's in town. I had to drive quite a bit to get around in Dallas when I visited, as well. </p>
<p>My daughter rejected Rice a priori, because of its Geographic location. To each their own.</p>
<p>Strongly suggest going & judging for yourself.</p>