<p>I did a few searches of the forums, couldn't find anything on quite this subject: A hopeless intellectual, I'm looking for a college where people tend to engage in philosophical/intellectual discussions when they're just hanging out.
St. John's College, with the great books program seems to fit the bill, but I'm not sure I want to box myself into such an extreme brand of education, or more importantly repeat so much stuff I've already learned.
Swarthmore students claim to have lots of discussions, but I'm also warned they can be stiflingly liberal or pretentious and not as smart as they think.
Reed and UChicago are supposed to be very intellectual, but I get the sense that people work on their own and spend what little social time they have in more conventional ways.
Carleton and Haverford are supposed to be intellectual, but the emphasis on sports there suggests to me that their leisure time is not spent like I'm thinking.
Princeton Review profile for Earlham caught my eye.
I think a strong core curriculum might be important, so everyone has a common base of knowledge to discuss. It might be that it's impossible to achieve this kind of culture without everyone taking exactly the same courses like at St. John's.
As for visiting--I will see Chicago, Swarthmore, Haverford, and (if I can convince my parents) St. John's in the near future. Reed & Carleton look doubtful from here in Boston.
I feel like I've brought up a good # of angles to look at it from. Others angles? Confirmations/Corrections of my impressions?</p>
<p>I think most of the more 'intellectually' oriented colleges are going to be predominantly liberal, like Swarthmore supposedly is. From what Ive read, I can understand your resistance to Chicago (though I am still interested). But Ive never heard anyone describe Reed in the same way. Granted, Ive never been too or known anyone from either school </p>
<p>I, too, am pretty interested in St. Johns. Probably the best way to discover what fits is to visit and not just take the tour, but walk around the campus, and truly get a feel for the intellectual tone of the studentssit into classes, talk with students, etc. </p>
<p>You could always look into Deep Springs. If you are a guy, that is.</p>
<p>Talk about being boxed in---------</p>
<p>Check out Oberlin.</p>
<p>To be blunt, you have a lot more options than you think you do. Many liberal arts colleges have exactly the sort of atmosphere you're looking for. My sister is hopelessly hooked on Kenyon because her host was reading and discussing Homer with friends. :rolleyes: What exactly are you looking for in terms of intellectual discussions? At Duke, for example, we aren't likely to discuss Pythagorean metempsychosis, Emerson's view of Transcendentalism, or Berkeley's empiricism, although we're often quite familiar with them (I like to, though). You will find plenty of people engaging in normal, applicable disscussions, though- I myself had a very memorable debate with friends about the value of ocean research vs. space research. My advice would be to look at most of the top universities and LACs; they should have what you're looking for.</p>
<p>I second the above post, and would in fact argue that colleges where intellectual discussions take place are more the norm than the exception (though at some places you may have to search it out more than others). After all college is a place to foster your intellect, no?
Having said that, if you're really interested in an intellectual discussion and the like I would stay away from any college that is overwhelmingly liberal (Oberlin, mentioned above, comes to mind) because opening your mind involves, in part, coming into contact with as many contrary views as possible.<br>
Third comment: I really can't imagine Havorford as having an "emphasis on sports" as my sister went there and I never heard a thing about them. Just a thought.</p>
<p>My daughter was swayed in her final college decision due to her overnight at the place she ultimately matriculated.</p>
<p>It seems that in the dorm, late into the night, they stayed up,students and "prospies" alike, talking about all sorts of things. Heavy, deep, and who knows what else. She felt that this was her school, with her type of people.</p>
<p>Interestingly, perhaps, that school was/is : Oberlin College.</p>
<p>Coincidence?</p>
<p>Probably. This sort of thing takes place at virtually every college with a lot of bright kids, I would imagine.</p>
<p>You will find Reed (and to a lesser extent, Chicago and Swarthmore) rather different than most other LACs (or small unis). It's mostly 'addition by subtraction'. Relative to other schools of their ilk, there is less music, art, theater, athletics, frat scene, alcohol, etc. They do have them, but in much smaller quantitities. And the students like it that way, or at least don't feel they're missing much, which tells you a lot about who they are. </p>
<p>If you really want "hopeless", these would be excellent choices. ;)</p>
<p>As long as the college is not dominated by pre-meds, science types, engineers, and/or business majors, you should be fine. I found people in those majors tended to be more practical and empirical, and they considered it frivolous to sit around contrasting Locke and Hume. Have you considered McGill?</p>
<p>OTOH, Locke and Hume seem to do a lot of good for pre-meds; 78% of Reed pre-meds were accepted by medical schools, including re-applies, according to American Medical College Application Service.</p>
<p>I was once intrigued by St. John's, but then ruled it out when I realized that it would be equally good to read all of those required books myself and try to run into and stick by people with a similar mission of ultra-literacy.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think a strong core curriculum might be important, so everyone has a common base of knowledge to discuss.
[/quote]
Columbia has a strong core curriculum. It is also liberal, but close to the heart of conservatives because it has not abandoned the emphasis on Western Civilization's great books.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the responses!</p>
<p>Warbler, Stargirl, it's good to hear my options are wide open.
I've got a few directions to go in:
-where do you have to do the least to "search out" intellectuals
-what schools have the best/most extensive core curricula, and not just distribution requirements, so everyone has a shared background to talk about?
-seeing as so many elite schools are supposedly super-liberal, which ones are intellectually liberal, and which ones are stiflingly politically liberal?</p>
<p>I guess what I like about [the admissions propaganda of] St. John's is the feeling that the pursuit of wisdom is constantly going on, as a common effort, and that all aspects of school life are just manifestations of that. Are there other schools with that feeling?</p>
<p>"You will find Reed (and to a lesser extent, Chicago and Swarthmore) rather different than most other LACs (or small unis). It's mostly 'addition by subtraction'. Relative to other schools of their ilk, there is less music, art, theater, athletics, frat scene, alcohol, etc. They do have them, but in much smaller quantitities. And the students like it that way, or at least don't feel they're missing much, which tells you a lot about who they are. </p>
<p>If you really want "hopeless", these would be excellent choices. "</p>
<p>oops. someone doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. re:chicago at least...</p>
<p>Tcamps, you ask very good questions. And the fact that you're differentiating between truly intellectual places and those "stiflingly politically liberal" places (where poseurs sit around drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, and bi+ching about how their rich parents don't care about global warming) shows you know the real thing from the psudo-real thing. Getting past surface appearances is a huge first step that a lot of people never make.</p>
<p>Which would eliminate Wesleyan, Reed, Oberlin, and probably Swarthmore. </p>
<p>I went to Boston College years ago, and it's probably one of the last places you'd expect heavy intellectual conversation to occur. But there was a core of 2 philosophy, 2 theology (not dogmatic "Sunday school" classes, but philosphical and historical classes), 2 European history classes, etc. Even though I was a an ex-jock, and most of friends were jock-ish, we all majored in the humanities and social sciences, and spent endless hours talking about politics, literature, and philosophy...usually while drinking beer rather than coffee.</p>
<p>So I'd suggest you continue to look past the obvious surface appearances. I'm sure a place like Holy Cross has as many open and intellectual discussions as any place in the country. The Jesuits bow to no one in their ability to engage in open intellectual discussions. And I'm sure other non-obvious places like William & Mary and Davidson are similarly more open to discussion than the places usually considered "intellectual," where discussions can occur as long as they are stiflingly liberal.</p>
<p>full disclosure: there's another thread somewhere about "intellectually liberal" v. "politically liberal," but I don't think it got very far...</p>
<p>Boston College, Holy Cross. Manhattanville. Maybe Georgetown -- but, that may be too liberal for you. What you're really describing are places that are urban and more middle-class than the typical ivies.</p>
<p>You can find such discussions at almost any college where you have sophmores.</p>
<p>Ouch. So, tsdad, did you major in accounting or engineering?</p>
<p>Oberlin sounds good- might look at Grinnell and Shimer, too. I would also consider looking at places that are a little relaxed, if you can. If people are under too much academic pressure, or financial pressure, or both, they do not have time for these discussions. Maybe a school that is slightly dreamy instead of driven is for you.</p>