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What does that have to do with price of tea in China. If the professor was truly inappropriate, would it have been acceptable at a community college?</p>
<p>Oldfort -The point is this: the 220 students are paying a high price for their education and they deserve a well prepared lecture, not a temper tantrum. If students are being annoyed by other students in a classroom, they typically aren’t shy about dealing with it themselves. Unlike high school teachers, college professors usually don’t deal with classroom management and behavior issues. I think the professor was hypersensitive and he wasted valuable class time only because his ego was bruised. If I’m a student and I’m paying tuition, I want my professor to value my time in his classroom (and yes, the more I pay, the more I expect!). I had nine years of college and not once did I have a professor act in that way. Is too much being made of this? – Probably. Was the professor wrong? – In my opinion, absolutely.</p>
<p>[I’m not sure, but Cornell’s tuition is around 40K? I think it’s rude for a professor to waste more than two minutes of class time for the 219 non-yawning students. It was a temper tantrum - he didn’t seem mad that the student was disrupting the learning of the other students; rather he seemed mad because he felt disrespected. ]</p>
<p>I am with Oldfort here. </p>
<p>FYI: The $40k you’re paying each year if you pay full tuition is for the OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN provided YOU are willing to take full advantage of it and take the initiative to overcome any obstacles…including disruptive students and Profs/Instructors who may not be the best teachers. </p>
<p>Not too different from paying/month for a gym membership. </p>
<p>It does not give students carte blanche right to blame them for their own mediocre academic performance or worse, disrespect the instructor or to insist that he/she tolerate such disrespect in ways satisfactory to a particular student. </p>
<p>IMHO, the instructor was perfectly within his rights to be angry at being disrespected in class. While the way he went about it wasn’t the best, there is a case to be made to set the tone for disruptive/disrespectful students to:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Remind them that they’re young adults and are to conduct themselves accordingly.</p></li>
<li><p>They’re not in high school anymore and college instructors won’t and shouldn’t tolerate the levels of disruptive/disrespectful behavior that are commonplace in mainstream US K-12 schools. Undergrads, you’re not a kid in high school anymore. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>I should also add that this instructor was quite mild compared to how harshly some of my high school teachers dealt with disruptive students at my urban public magnet high school. I’ve seen teachers throw temper tantrums far worse than what this Professor has done…and with plenty of excoriating biting remarks towards offending students to boot!!. Heck, he’d be a meek mouse in comparison with some high school teachers I’ve had…and I attended high school during the early-mid '90s. </p>
<p>Especially considering the increasing trend my instructor/TA friends noticed of parents and students who believe paying full tuition…or going to an expensive private school entitles them to treat instructors and staff with the same disdain and disrespect which was once mainly reserved for unruly children/adolescents and service workers who fail to meet minimum expectations. </p>
<p>In the working-class US neighborhood where I came from, this way of thinking would be sign of someone who has no respect, appreciation, or understanding of what a good education requires…especially from the students.</p>
<p>I can tell you the last time I yelled at a student: Sept. 12, 2001. The previous day, a colleague, her husband and their two children were killed when their plane crashed into the Pentagon. I was angry and I expected everyone else to feel the same anger and hurt that I felt. During my lecture that morning, a young woman and a young man were giggling like schoolchildren. I made a general comment, hoping to put an end to it. As the lecture proceeded, however, the young woman continued to giggle and fawn over the young man. At that point I let her know, in no uncertain terms, that I wanted her out of my classroom. She left. Later that day, a classmate came by my office to tell me how upset the student was. The student herself emailed me to say how sorry she was. I told myself that I would never again light up a student like that. </p>
<p>You might think that was the end of it, but, for the next three years, whenever I saw the young woman she cowered. Losing control is never the best option. As offensive as the yawning Cornell student was–and I find him offensive in the extreme–the professor must keep control of his emotions. I imagine he understands that now.</p>
<p>– particularly if someone is going to film the incident and put it on youtube…</p>
<p>Coase, your excuse has merit, his has none IMO. His was about respect towards him, yours was about respect of a country/city/campus in mourning.</p>
<p>Look, everyone who is like, “OH THIS YAWN WAS OBVI DISRUPTIVE PROF FTW” is…not being very fair? </p>
<p>You can’t even HEAR the audio on the track so how would you know how disruptive the yawn is? The fact that the prof can hear it from the front means nothing. Lecture halls are extremely quiet and sound travels very easily. Furthermore, the fact that some students turned their heads is also not necessarily indicative of anything. I’ve watched it several times and they only turn around to look when the prof reacts (not yet verbally, but he’s staring randomly into the corner). </p>
<p>The yawn may or may not have been obnoxious. We don’t really know.</p>
<p>What I do know is that the reaction was extremely unprofessional. You’ve seen worse? Well, good for you. That doesn’t make it appropriate. Walking up and down the aisles and ranting for students to rat some kid out is totally disruptive and creates a feeling of acrimony in an environment that is supposed to be collaborative. The yawn MAY have turned two heads (if it even did this at all), but his outburst turned the entire class around in their seats. Furthermore I imagine they were very on edge for a significant part of the lecture following that. </p>
<p>There were MUCH more appropriate ways to deal with the yawn, even if it was disrespectful, such as, “That yawn was pretty loud. I’m going to ask you to yawn silently or leave. Thanks.” </p>
<p>When a person starts screaming because they feel “disrespected” they are abusing their position of authority. It’s bad behavior for a boss in the real world, and bad behavior for a college professor in the real world.</p>
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<p>I can so relate to this prof. Actually have almost been there myself.</p>
<p>Students need to respect the profession and not think these people work for me. We are talking 17, 18, 19 year olds versus people with PhDs or Masters.</p>
<p>American students tend to be very spoiled and lazy. Something is very wrong in our educational system.</p>
<p>But that is another thread.</p>
<p>We also don’t know what else happened in that class to make the professor so upset.</p>
<p>As a parent, I have lost it once or twice with my own children. Hind sight, I should have controlled my temper, I should have been more patient, and I should have been a better parent. I am sure there are a lot of parents similar to me. We probably should hold a parent at a higher standard than a professor, but we are still not perfect.</p>
<p>We do have clinegirl who was in the class, did not hear the yawn, and does not report anything disruptive in the class except the prof.</p>
<p>clinegirl could be a Cornell student or an 8th grader. I tend to take what I read on the internet with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>I’m surprised that so many people have seen worse. I guess I should stop expecting my professors to be respectful then.</p>
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<p>How often do you yawn in public and other people turn around and give you a “look”. It sounds to me like this happens quite often to a lot of people posting on this thread. It’s a legitimate yawn, no big deal, yet other people seem to notice. Maybe its genetic and this student is being unfairly discriminated against. </p>
<p>I wonder if the same student had “gas” if it would be equally loud? I mean come on, its just gas! I’ll bet that student might find a way of letting it “pass” in a non-noticeable way ( at least in the auditory sense).</p>
<p>I’ll be waiting for the thread “Harvard professor out of control–gets angry at students for loud farting.” He asks students to rat out the offender but finds an entire section of the lecture hall passed out. </p>
<p>CCr’s chime in–clinegirl did not hear the ur uhm disturbance, was not disrupted (obviously professor out of control)</p>
<p>220 students are paying (and I mean BIG bucks) for their education, professor should not stop a lecture because he is getting “weird vibrations” from an audience member</p>
<p>What’s a little gas? I’ve smelled a lot worse.</p>
<p>If the yawner (assuming it was a loud yawn) had been my son, my reaction would have been at least as strong as the professor’s. It is unbelievably arrogant and rude of a student to do that to an adult - a student who does that is not an adult. </p>
<p>I would have been dissapointed that he did not have the courage to confess his misconduct and apologize. The focus here should be the student’s conduct, not the professor’s, unless it truly was somehow a fantom yawn.</p>
<p>The professor’s conduct was not the best, but it was not outrageous in my view. Try practicing law before antediluvian federal court judges who run their own little fiefdoms and enjoy life tenure - they throw tantrums and there is no recourse unless it is on the record and the record captures the tone and volume, and even still the relief on appeal is quite unlikely absent a sufficient record to show that the conduct might have tainted the jury. You are representing a client, so you can’t just walk out. My often than not, it has happened to my opponents, but it is unpleasant watching it happen.</p>
<p>[We do have clinegirl who was in the class, did not hear the yawn, and does not report anything disruptive in the class except the prof. ]</p>
<p>IME, the person lecturing in front of a given class…even in a large setting has a much easier time picking up on student actions…especially wayward disrespectful ones such as yawning obnoxiously in class, conversations with neighboring students at whatever volume, texting, and more. </p>
<p>This is not only because he/she has sweeping visual command of the room, but also has the job of maintaining control and gauging student interest. This was something I would have never realized if I did not have a chance opportunity to substitute teach 2 one hour sections of an introductory history course at a community college for an adjunct friend. Each section averaged around 50-75 students and despite it being my first time…I was surprised at how many more things I noticed from the instructor’s vantage point as opposed to that of a student…especially in a medium to large sized lecture class. It is very possible the Cornell student here may not have heard the obnoxious yawn that may have occurred…especially in a large lecture hall like that.</p>
<p>[What’s a little gas? I’ve smelled a lot worse. ]</p>
<p>One high school teacher I had actually went ballistic once for the entire class period upon finding the room had a strong distinct stinkbomb odor. He kept ranting about how whoever among us set that stinkbomb off was “going to hang” and he will do so “personally.” The temper tantrum was, of course, way past the intensity of what this Cornell Prof did. If my high school teacher’s temper tantrum in that incident was a 10 out of 10, that Cornell Prof would be lucky to even rate .1/10</p>
<p>If cline girl is an 8th grader, she’s a strange one. Instead of being tied to her iPod and facebook she’s been successfully impersonating a Cornell applicant and student for 2 years.</p>
<p>^haha yes I do actually go to Cornell…I’m taking HADM 1174 and you can ask me more questions if you need me to prove I was in the class.<br>
I personally did not hear a yawn - not denying it didn’t happen, but I did not know what had happened until he started yelling at us. This class is held on a Friday morning. We are all exhausted from the week and sitting in a lecture that, to be honest, isn’t the most interesting. To top it off, this class is right before Dean’s which is why we are all wearing suits and ties and such. If you were a college student in this class, wouldn’t you yawn once in a while? I was also in the section he is yelling at, so maybe I was too tired to hear the yawn haha…
The TA he doesn’t believe was also the HEAD TA for the class…she said the sound came from outside the auditorium but he didn’t think she was right.<br>
I agree - yawning obnoxiously on purpose is extremely rude and arrogant. I honestly don’t think anyone did it on purpose and perhaps the amount of students randomly yawning, simply because of the time/day of the class, caused Talbert to become frustrated.</p>
<p>clinegirl- my remark wasn’t direct at you, it was directed at 2college for being so naive in assuming just because someone on the internet said she went to Cornell, she was in the class, and she didn’t hear the yawn, then it didn’t happen. Even if everything clinegirl said was true, it really dependend on where she sat. I bet you if you asked everyone in class (200 students), you would get different response.</p>
<p>Umcp-
Well-written post. If the yawn (apologies-- I couldnt hear it) was loud and was purposeful (we have no way of knowing), it was not appropriate, but IMO the way he handled it was also inappropriate.</p>
<p>“If students are being annoyed by other students in a classroom, they typically aren’t shy about dealing with it themselves.”</p>
<p>that has not been my experience.</p>
<p>" Unlike high school teachers, college professors usually don’t deal with classroom management and behavior issues. "</p>
<p>Most aren’t called to do so, to the same degree as in high school, because their students are ususally more mature than high school students. In my experience, when this proves not to be the case, some do deal with it, some don’t- sometimes to the detriment of those in the class who care. I think profs get less classroom training than high school teachers do.</p>
<p>“You can’t even HEAR the audio on the track so how would you know how disruptive the yawn is?”</p>
<p>A couple people have said something like this, and we must have very different hearing. I hear the “yawn” at 10 seconds in, then I hear students in the class giggiling about it from 10 seconds to 12 seconds in, before the prof says his first words about it. The giggling proves it was disruptive. I don’t know why you don’t hear this, it is there on the video.</p>