Out of State Chances for W&M?

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
1

<p>So I'm a High school junior (suburban, public school in MA), and I was wondering about my chances at the College, as it's my dream school. Here's my stats as of now:</p>

<p>Academic:
-Currently have a 3.7 GPA, however its a "half-year" GPA; my all-year courses don't count in that yet... so my 94 in AP History hasn't been logged in. My end of the year GPA was 4.13 last year.
-Currently ranked #61/395; Again, its with my current GPA, at the end of last year I was #47.
-Freshman year I took honors intermediate algebra, honors world history II, honors physical science, h2 (average) French III, h2 English, and h2 band.
-Sophomore year I took honors English, honors US History I, honors biology, h2 advanced algebra, h2 French IV, and h2 band.
-This year I have taken/am taking AP US History, honors American Lit., honors chemistry, h2 pre-calculus, h2 French V, and h2 Business Law (no honors level offered). However I am a little worried as my term 3 grades in math and science were both a 78, my lowest grades ever, in my weakest subjects... I think this will hurt my GPA and my chances at W&M. I can pull the grades into the low 80s I think, but not much higher; I don't think the 78s will end up as a transcript grade, but it still won't be good.
-Next year I think I'll take AP World History, AP Psychology, AP US Government, AP English, honors band, h2 French VI, h2 Theology, and a 5-student [extremely selective] directed study course taught by my current history teacher. I know I can get A's in all of the above, so maybe the weight behind the AP A's will balance off the low B's from Chem and Pre-Calc.</p>

<p>Honor Societies:
-Inducted into National Honor Society as a Junior; elected to the position of Historian
-Inducted into Tri-M Music Honor Society as a Sophomore; elected to the position of Historian
-Chapter Founder and President of Opus Bono Historiae (State Social Studies Honor Society)
-Chapter Co-Founder and Vice-President of Quill and Scroll (Journalism Honor Society)
-Chapter Co-Founder and Secretary of National English Honor Society</p>

<p>Sports:
-Marching Band (I know I know, not a "sport") since grade 9. Section Leader grades 10&11, Quartermaster grades 10&11, Drum Major for next year</p>

<p>Other EC's:
-Student Council since grade 9. Historian for grades 10 & 12 (we apply in the april for the following year), VP for grade 11
-State Student Advisory Council Representative [to the MA Board of Ed.] grade 12
-Student Rep. to the School Committee grade 12
-International Relations since grade 9. President for grade 12. I'm trying to organize our club to attend the W&M HS MUN in Nov... I figure, anything helps!
-School Newspaper since grade 10. Editor for grade 11, reapplying for grade 12
-Founder and President of the History Club, grades 11&12
-Symphonic Band since grade 9. First Chair Clarinet grades 11&12. Solo Eb Clarinet, grades 11 & 12 [I did band during lunch for grade 11]
-Concert Band grade 9 only [we only have one band now]. First Chair Clarinet
-Full Orchestra grades 9, 10, and most likely 12. I didn't take band this year (scheduling mishap), so I couldn't do Full Orchestra...
-Hoop Band grade 11 and most likely 12.
-Library Renovations Committee for Grade 10
-I submitted a paper on the historiography of the Election of 1876 for publication to The Concord Review</p>

<p>Summer Camps:
-UMass Lowell Symphonic Band Camp after grade 9
-NIAHD & the College of William and Mary Pre-Collegiate Summer Program in Early American History after grade 11
-UMass Amherst Drum Major Academy after grade 11</p>

<p>Comm. Service:
-High School Library Volunteer grades 10-12
-Peer Tutor at the middle school grade 10-11
-Blood Drive Volunteer grade 9
-Elementary school reading program volunteer grade 9
-Music Program Bottle and Can Drive volunteer grades 10 & 11
-Elementary school spring festival volunteer grade 11
-Next year I plan to volunteer for a local hospital for a day a week</p>

<p>Out of School Activities:
-2 different Irish Music Sessions [I play tinwhistle]</p>

<p>Stuff that shouldn't matter, but does:
-I'm 25% Irish, 50% Breton, and 25% Japanese
-Female
-Out of state
-My recommendation teachers are my English teacher for American Lit. honors [she has a masters in divinity from Harvard; I'll also have her for Theology next year], and my history teacher of 3 years [Honors US I, AP US, directed study; he's also the advisor of the History Club and Opus Bono Historiae]
-I've visited W&M once for a Fall Focus Day, I am going to interview there after my summer program gets over, and I'll visit again in the fall.</p>

<p>Oh, and I want to major in history. :-)</p>

2

<p>VERY challenging. Being from MA is bettern being from MD tho. Anyone who’d tell you to not have a great Plan B that’ll be equally as satisfying …would be lying. Keep your dreams flowing and your box big. Mucho competitive, and especially for outtastate girls. The 25%Japanese is creative hope, tho. I’d think a better bet would becoming a D I volleyballer or landing 1st chair in the Boston Symphony. Then …</p>

3

<p>If you haven’t begun, show interest! Try and schedule interview this summer. And make certain you complete the option essay/submission in the application. Little details but it can’t hurt!</p>

4

<p>You haven’t mentioned your standardized test scores. If they’re good, they can really help you as an OOS applicant. If they’re not as good as you’d like them to be, I strongly suggest an October retake, and spending as much time as practicable this summer prepping for them.</p>

<p>Did I read correctly that you’re doing the W & M Pre-Collegiate program in early American history this summer? This is supposed to be a wonderful program - do well, and it may give you a boost. Do you plan to apply ED?</p>

<p>momray is right - the optional essay and summer interview can help your chances. Here’s the link to the interview info page: [William</a> & Mary - Summer Interviews](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/admissionprocess/summerinterviews/index.php]William”>http://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/admissionprocess/summerinterviews/index.php) If you’ll be on campus this summer, definitely schedule an interview as soon as possible. There aren’t enough slots available for all the applicants who want them.</p>

<p>Just to split hairs a bit - though the interview and optional essay can benefit applicants greatly, W & M does not officially consider level of applicant’s interest in admissions decisions (per the common data set). But apart from showing interest, these are opportunities to show W & M why it should want you as a student, so be sure to take advantage. Good luck!</p>

5

<p>you have a chance… you would really benefit from being in the top 10% I think, if there’s anyway you can do that. Your ECs are solid, but nothing outstanding. Definitely worth sending the app</p>

6

<p>i got in this year as an OOS from Maryland and i felt what really pulled through for me was being authentic at every level. You have have some great qualifications here. Being authentic in your extracurricular pursuits and allow your passions to develop and grow. Express your genuine self in your essays, especially the supplement essay, and you will a good shot.</p>

7

<p>Top colleges like W&M are really all about looking at the whole picture - no doubt. But I think W&M more than some others (UVA e.g.) are more SAT score oriented. My S had decent Grade (3.8 or so), standard essays I thought, neutral reccos in all probability but v.good SAT/SAT2 scores - 2280 in SAT (1 sitting) and 5 SAT2s 2 above 750 and none below 700. He got into W&M but got waitlisted at UVA. I strongly feel that some colleges are more SAT oriented and some are more grade.</p>

8

<p>well… im an international student(Korean) who goes to school in new jersey. I got 1950 on my SAT: 750 on Math 2, 800 on Korean, and 590 on US History. I had about 9 leadership positions, and I GOT IN. ohhh my gpa was 3.87</p>

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<p>Hi Young!</p>

<p>I’m going to suggest finding a Math class for senior year; I know you do not like Math too much, but maybe AP Statistics? </p>

<p>Another thing to consider is putting some thought into a really great optional supplement –
YouTube (search William & Mary supplements) has some examples of video supplements. I think a good supplement can definitely help.</p>

<p>I would keep a good blog this summer of your History course at W&M and maybe even write an article about your experience and get it published in your school paper or your hometown paper. </p>

<pre><code>Have you taken the ACT?
</code></pre>

10

<p>s.rythum- i’d agree with zzangme2006. testing was my weakness overall. W&M doesn’t even require SAT II"s. honestly out of all the schools that applied to, I found W&M to think outside of the box the most</p>

11

<p>mock and zang - you are probably right. I am yet to find a reason in the admission madness - very difficult to say what the adcoms like or dont. My S had no leadership whatsoever, runs varsity track but 12 second 100 so no Usain Bolt either. Anyway, congrats to both of you - I am getting a feeling that it is a fabulous undergrad school.</p>

<p>And also to the OP, your history bend will serve you well. My S had a prominent history thread running thru his application essays etc. But he did not have the Historian positions that you have. Good luck. Try to shoot for a 2000 or so in SAT and with everything else that you have you have a very good chance.</p>

12

<p>Yeah, my test scores are OK I guess… I’m retaking all subjects (I’ve been testing since eighth grade).</p>

<p>SAT I: Reading- 740
Math- 660
Writing- 620 </p>

<p>I don’t know whether to retake this next year… I want a 2200, but a 2010 isn’t too bad, and I don’t want to waste money if I don’t need to…</p>

<p>SAT II: World History- 720 (taken at the end of soph. year)
US History- 660 (Never took US II before taking it; I’m taking it in June, expecting a high 700’s-800)
Literature- 660 (taken at the end of Frosh year; I’m taking it this saturday!)
Biology- 560 (NOT submitting this. ewww.)</p>

<p>As to taking a math class, we only offer AP Calc, and I’m NOT going near that one. Also, today I was told I can’t double up in English, so instead of Theology, I guess I’ll do AP Music Theory.</p>

<p>I’ll be interviewing at W&M after the summer program is over. I’ll also go on another visit this fall, before WMHSMUN. And with the essay, my English teacher used to work in Harvard’s admissions office and she’s obssesive about helping with college essays. I don’t know if its “cheating” per se, but I read the admissions officer bios on the W&M site, and one of them likes Ireland, which I am also in love with. So I might write my essay about something Irish; knowing me, it will be Irish history or music.</p>

<p>Also, my History teacher went to W&M and did doctoral work there (didn’t complete it though… I don’t know why, and I’m not asking). He’s published in the W&M quarterly, and was offered a research position at Col. Williamsburg, but turned it down to teach.</p>

<p>My other schools (if you’re interested):</p>

<h1>2 University of Virginia (same quandary, OOS)</h1>

<h1>3 UNC Chapel Hill (again…)</h1>

<h1>4 Boston College (If it wasn’t so expensive…)</h1>

<h1>5 Vanderbilt</h1>

<h1>6 GWU</h1>

<h1>7 Georgetown</h1>

<h1>8 U Maryland, College Park (once again…)</h1>

<h1>9 Lehigh</h1>

<h1>10 Stonehill College (Safety)</h1>

<h1>11 Merrimack College (My history teacher’s original alma mater; Safety)</h1>

<h1>12 UMass Amherst (Safety)</h1>

13

<p>I graduated with a B.A. in History from W&M last Spring and have nothing but good things to say about the history department. It is certainly a history department which is highly regarded nationally as you probably already know - during an interview with a dean of a law school I was looking at he referred to the History Dept. as the “crown jewel” of the college. There are many excellent course offerings and you are sure to find some areas which really peak your interest. It sounds like your teacher who worked in admissions at Harvard probably has some good advice in terms of your essay. I would suggest that since you are really interested in majoring in history at W&M to maybe tie in with your essay how the history department at W&M can help you achieve your goals in a specific way. I don’t have the kind of experience in admissions your English teacher does, but I do know that W&M is the kind of school that is looking for specific clues in its out of state applications that those applicants would be likely to accept an offer of admission. Anything you can do that is creative, but yet shows you took the extra time to make it personalized to WM definitely would not hurt.</p>

14

<p>btw you have some great credentials, congrats on your hard work! Also, I lived in New Hampshire through high school and can attest that the weather is a little bit better in Virginia not having to deal with all that snow and slush! (-:</p>

15

<p>Unless you have summer school. Then when it’s 120 deg F. or the equivalent …you’ll be sweating in places you didn’t even know existed. ;)</p>

<p>And all the people with brains’ll be in Cape Cod.</p>

<p>Can you spell h-u-m-i-d-i-t-y? :frowning: There’s a reason Jamestown literally died! :eek:</p>

<p>Think top 5% in rank for a Massachusetts snowball’s chance, btw …Much of this you’re getting is nice, unrealistic encouragement in light of your current situation. Don’t be patronized by those with “nice” intentions. This will be especially true recognizing your class rank is not strong by WM standards and more so that it’s going in the wrong direction, no matter the reason. Most of what you’re getting here is pure baloney, albeit attempt to be gentle, kind to you. What you are looking for is sound information.</p>

16

<p>I’ll second what Whistle Pig has been saying. W&M is a great school and I wouldn’t discourage you from applying at all, as long as you understand it is a real reach. Particularly for out-of-state females from the northeast. W & M was a top choice of my daughter’s. 3.8+ GPA in the toughest curriculm a kid from her school had taken on in 5 years. 1450/2100 SAT scores, 3 SAT IIs between 730 and 770, top 6% of her class, great recs and essay. Did the summer interview. Bottom line she was waitlisted like 1,000 others. A girl from her school with similar stats, slightly less demanding curriculum but #2 in her class did get admitted to W&M this year.</p>

<p>Invest as much time and interest in your safeties and matches as you do in W&M and things will work out for the best. Good luck!</p>

17

<p>I appreciate your attempt to clarify the difficulty of being admitted Whistle Pig, that is certainly important. But it is also important to clarify that this applicant’s numbers aren’t so low that they undoubtedly warrant automatic preclusion in the admissions process. It is necessary to be realistic and not put all your eggs in one basket, but that doesn’t mean you should also give up on applying for admission either.</p>

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<p>I know my chances aren’t great, but as to my rank, it’ll bounce back at the end of the year. The level 1 students generally have all year classes, so most of us have dropped behind our less gifted peers, as they get their half year final grades. I’m not too worried about sliding that way…</p>

<p>However, getting to top 10% is my goal, and I realize I need to be in the top 5%. My history teacher uses that as his ammunition as to why I shouldn’t go. He really doesn’t think I should even bother applying.</p>

<p>Of course, he wants me to be like his son, and go to UVa. He keeps pushing me to UVa, using everything from the weather to Jefferson to justify that. I really wouldn’t mind going there, but W&M is definitely my #1, without question.</p>

<p>I know it was a reach, that’s why I did this post, to see just how borderline I’ll be in admissions.</p>

<p>Oh also, my friends and I are currently trying to squeeze AP Macroeconomics out of the Admin, so all together I think I have 6 AP classes, and one honors class; that’ll put my GPA and rank through the roof!</p>

19

<p>Young Historian,</p>

<p>It’s a sport for some folks to shoot down prospective applicants. For the record, I know someone who was accepted to W&M DESPITE PedSox confidently saying “no way” when that person’s stats and ECs were posted seeking an opinion. </p>

<p>The fact is, Whistle Pig and Pedsox have no vote. They are not on the Committee. I say, apply and don’t pay attention to the nay-sayers. CC has a lot of them.</p>

20

<p>YoungH, it’s hard taking the mothering instinct out of moms. NOW tries and can’t do it. And anecdotal exceptions abound. You could well be one and the only way you’ll know is to apply. And you should to multiple places, any of which would satisfy your needs. </p>

<p>Contrary to her mean-spirited allegation, it’s anything but sporting to “shoot down” and none were doing so. She’s correct. No admission vote here. Nor in her house, for that matter. What is cruel is being a cheerleader when facts are what serve your question. Get those and stick with them. </p>

<p>For the most part, what you’re getting are opinions. Hers is based on anecdotal case of one. A few others suggest other potential rabbits that you might pull out to make your dream come true. Generally, these are not good plans, as you’ve well noted. Still others base it on the profile provided each season by Wm*Mary. Go there for your best “chancing.” </p>

<p>Hers is the classic response when she doesn’t like the message or has nothing else to contribute. Kill the messenger. </p>

<p>You’re bright. You’ll figure this out, I’m confident. Good luck. More important good effort. Luck doesn’t work much at Wm&Mary.</p>