Out of State Chances for W&M?

<p>Young historian- to get back to the whole point of this message thread i would also like to say that your chances will be greatly enhanced by an interesting outlook on life- something that sparks the minds of those reading your application. I would also suggest making a concerted effort to show cohesiveness in your extracurricular pursuits. It’s all about quality, not quantity. Don’t be afraid to think outside the box with your activities. Be who you are, its the individuals who really stand out in the application process.</p>

<p>Having just gone through this process with my daughter I have to agree with Whistle Pig and hudsonvalley51. It’s a number game and not a very pleasant one unless you are a gifted student and gifted athlete. For the mere mortals of the world it is fine to have reaches, but one must really look at their “safety” and “very possible schools” with as much care as those reaches. </p>

<p>In regards to W&M, the fact that you are an out of state female puts you at a great disadvantage. I personally know a National Merit Finalist (OOS Female), with great grades, top of her class, similar interests and she is taking AP Calc and AP Bio who was wait listed. Before April 1st I would have thought she was a definite admit, but what do a I know. In respect to your other choices, I would also put UVA, Georgetown, BC, and UNC as most unlikely.</p>

<p>All I can say is talk to your advisor and get a realistic appraisal. Many schools that we (and the advisor) thought our daughter would get into were either rejections or wait lists. She did get into her safety schools (with scholarships), but then realized she didn’t like them. </p>

<p>Good luck and remember this is not a reflection of you or your accomplishments, it’s just a crazy process. Enjoy Senior Year!</p>

<p>Definitely apply at the very least if you want to get in. I’m an OOS male, and I thought I had basically no shot of getting in because of my class rank, a measly 74/556 (Top 13%), but in the toughest curriculum my school has to offer (large extremely competitive public). My SATs were significantly better (2320), which I feared would make me look like a slacker. </p>

<p>I’m attending W&M this fall.</p>

<p>Good luck, and stay positive!</p>

<p>Well, over the past two weeks I’ve taken two more standardized tests… AP US History and SAT II US History.</p>

<p>I’m pretty confident about the AP exam; I’m 99.99% certain that I have a 5.
SATs, not as confident. I really wanted an 800, but I think I fell in the 780-800 area.</p>

<p>And with Academic Awards night coming up, apparently I may be a strong candidate for the History Department’s Faculty Association Award; an award usually reserved for seniors.</p>

<p>I feel like I’m inching closer towards W&M. I might not make it, but hey, at least my overall application is improving!</p>

<p>Good to hear that you feel confident about these important tests. Here’s hoping that you see great results when scores become available. I’m not just acting on my mothering instinct :rolleyes: when I say that I think you have a chance at W & M. But you’ll need to craft your application carefully and communicate your love of history in a unique and memorable way. Write two great essays - one for the Common App, and one for your optional submission. Be a standout at W & M’s summer program and wring everything you can from it.</p>

<p>I hope you’ll check in again with us when you have your final GPA and rank for the year. I don’t quite understand your school’s grading procedure. W & M will consider your half-year grades next year, too, so you’ll have to do what you can not to be penalized for taking more rigorous classes (which it appears is what’s happened with this year’s grades). Also - W & M likes to see a well-rounded, challenging hs curriculum.

This is from a 2007 article about admissions in W & M’s alumni magazine. It goes on to state that W & M also likes to see 2 AP classes during junior year, and 4 during senior year. Of course this is filtered through your own school’s offerings. I agree with mom4college above that a math during your senior year would help. You’re taking French VI - does your school offer AP French?</p>

<p>If you can apply ED, you certainly have a better chance. Can you? If you’re an ED applicant who won’t need financial aid, your chances increase.</p>

<p>While I rarely agree with WP about W & M, he’s right that you should have a solid plan B - everyone should, regardless of their stats or class rank. How much do you love the safeties on your list? Are either of them financial safeties? Have you looked at University of Pittsburgh? They have an excellent history department, and you may qualify for merit aid there if you apply early enough (it’s a rolling admissions school). Please keep us posted!</p>

<p>YH:
Yes, you need a Plan B - except for a handful of picks of the litters and Senator’s offspring, no one should not have a Plan B in this situation. It is a long shot but not impossible. Yes, there are many anecdotal examples going both ways, but no one outside of the Admissions conference room really knows what mix of measureables (GPA, SATs, class rank, # of APs, ECs, etc.) and unmeasureables (your talents, skills, passions, “special purpose”) is the exact mix W&M will be looking for the year you apply. </p>

<p>Good luck. Hope springs eternal . . .</p>

<p>I don’t think you’re exactly a shoo-in at this point. Try to make a big impression when you go to the NIAHD program–it’s your best shot.</p>

<p>I don’t get why your history teacher is pushing UVA over W and M. I think they’re both about equally hard to get into. I think the advice about the essay is good. I also think your excellent history AP score will be a feather in your cap.</p>

<p>My teacher had some bad experiences at W&M while he was working towards his doctorate- which he never completed. However, his younger son (who now writes for sports illustrated), went to University of Virginia. He’s really just pushing UVa as a personal thing, more or less.</p>

<p>I just received my SAT scores from May, and received a 780 in US History.</p>

<p>I’m registered for the June test; should I retake it? I want an 800, but my teacher said that retaking it sends the wrong message, especially with only 20 points off, but I’m pretty sure we can pick which tests we send…</p>

<p>I’ve also changed my schedule once again… AP Psychology, AP World History, AP Government, AP English, Honors French 6, Honors Band, and Career Exploration.</p>

<p>And I’m registered for an interview at The College… Any advice??? I’ve never done a college interview before, and I’m really nervous, as my first one is at my dream school…</p>

<p>I definitely would not retake the SATII US History exam. The amount of weight that W&M puts on it is minimal. It is also one of the easier exams so they would expect grades in the 730-800 range, and as long as you are there I really wouldn’t worry about it.</p>

<p>When you send your AP scores, Collegeboard sends all of the scores (iirc), but W&M just looks at the top score. Anyone know about sending scores for sure?</p>

<p>And is there any opportunity to take a math in your schedule? The relatively low Math SAT + the lack of a Math course may hurt. And we may have already been over this, but they [being the admissions committee] may ask themselves why you’re taking French 6 instead of AP. If you think its because you wouldn’t do well, I took AP Spanish my 5th year and was not one of the best in the class - but I tried hard on the AP test (as compared with speaking in English about Harry Potter on the speaking section) and got a 4, which has helped enormously.</p>

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<p>be nice. Don’t insult your interviewer. Learn enough about W&M so you don’t say you dislike things that are a big part of the culture (like… “I don’t think an honor code would ever work” or… “I would hate to have tourists on my campus” or… “I generally try to do as little as I can to get by”)</p>

<p>and your SAT II score is more than fine.</p>

<p>what is the difference between honors french 6 and AP french?</p>

<p>It is my impression that the ad com wants to see the hardest class load possible, and if you’re going into your 6th year of a language and not taking AP if its offered it may look like you are being lazy. That’s putting it bluntly, of course, but you get the idea.</p>

<p>YoungH:</p>

<p>Check with the College Board and make sure that you do indeed get to choose which score from a Subject Test is submitted. </p>

<p>As for the interview, I would suggest you role play with a parent or friend, so you have some ideas handy for some general questions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>What do you like best about where you live?</p></li>
<li><p>What are you reading right now?</p></li>
<li><p>What attracts you to W&M?</p></li>
<li><p>What are you doing this summer? [Have something interesting for after your History course in mind, community service or volunteer work.]</p></li>
<li><p>What three words would your best friend use to describe you?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Those sorts of questions…</p>

<p>The interview is done by a current W&M senior. I would also have a question or two to ask that student; this will give you something else to talk about and it will also give the interviewer a chance to talk – and then the interview won’t be so one-sided. Don’t ask something that can be answered by the Catalog! </p>

<p>Would it be possible to stop by a college in your town and have a tour and an interview? To practice??! :-)</p>

<p>Keep us posted!</p>

<p>Now I just assumed that it was not offered at YH’s school – this needs to be clarified! If it is not offered, then your GC should say so in his letter of recommendation.</p>

<p>In order for us to be as helpful as possible, what is your financial aid need, if any? I think some of us here might be able to help with your list if we had some sense of your financial needs for tuition.</p>

<p>Another question to prepare an answer for: what will you contribute to the W & M community? This can be phrased in a number of different ways, but what they’re asking is what is special about you that will benefit W & M. None of my 3 daughters ever had a college interview that didn’t ask a variation of this question.</p>

<p>My d went into her interview with a number of questions scrawled on a small piece of paper, and she told me she did refer to it. My d is expecting to be an education major with a concentration in history, so she asked her interviewer about the history classes she had taken, and about her freshman seminar, as well. She said she found it nerve-wracking because it was her first interview (and also her most important one, since W & M was her first choice). But the interviewer put her at ease and d told me it felt like a conversation rather than an interview. The interviews she had at Muhlenberg and GWU felt more formal because they were conducted by adcoms.</p>

<p>Wondering - can you apply ED?</p>

<p>French AP is not offered at my school, and hasn’t been since the mid 90’s. We are allowed to take the AP exam though, as long as we are in the honors 6 class.</p>

<p>My school almost cut all AP classes this year, as we’re really hard up for money… god forbid they make cuts to the athletic department though.</p>

<p>And my guidance counselor advised me that between all the clubs I run and the amount of level 1 (AP/honors) classes I’m taking, that for me, taking a math might be a very bad idea, since I have never gotten an A in math. The 6 level 1 classes I’m taking is actually extremely abnormal, and only about 5 kids will do that in any given year. Also, all of my friends have to deal with roughly 7 classes, depending on electives, and whatnot. I added to my course load by taking a research-based directed study with my favorite history teacher during what is supposed to be study hall. in addition, i have yet another class with him, though it is an elective. It is another highly research based history class, but I will also be teaching several classes; I’m hoping I can get the US I Honors, as next year’s AP US class doesn’t look promising. Journalism is my only “easy” class.</p>

<p>I was wondering if a PG year would help me at all? I’m not an athlete, so its not for the usual reason… But would W&M look at my application more favorably if I tried to make up for my awful junior year by taking a PG year?</p>

<p>Would Early Decision help me out?</p>

<p>It is my number 1 school, and financially I already know I’m going to be taking on student loans anywhere I go…</p>

<p>I saw that last year out of roughly 900 ED applicants, 470 were admitted. I know that I very well could still be in the 48% who were deferred/rejected, but a 52% acceptance rate is a lot better than a 33% acceptance rate.</p>

<p>Anyways, if I’m deferred, I’d have another shot in the RD round. If I’m rejected, well then at least I know, and I’m free to apply to other schools.</p>

<p>Any cons that I haven’t covered that I should know about for ED?</p>

<p>Yes, early decision helps. You seem like you know all the cons associated with ED, so if you’re sure that you’d want to come here no matter what, then go for it.</p>

<p>Young,</p>

<p>If finances are not a deal breaker, then apply ED. Read the fine print on the common application regarding the commitment when you apply. </p>

<p>I would suggest you sit down with your family and just review the out of state tuition amount versus an in-state school and run the FAFSA calculators. You do not want to be surprised in a bad way if you are accepted ED and then cannot figure out how to afford it. </p>

<p>Make sure your GC explains the AP French is not offered at your school in his/her letter. </p>

<p>Keep us posted!</p>