Out of State

<p>Liberate must have been a VERY unique situation: My D had been running her own unique business since 8th grade (and discussed it in detail in her essay). 3.7 UM GPA 32 ACT/1450 SAT. Top 7% of class. Applied ER: deferred and then withdrew, but our public NJ high school has had really bad results with UMich.</p>

<p>I decided to attend Michigan as and out-of-stater. After taking a lot of time and asking a lot of very well informed people, I chose Michigan over 9 other excellent universities, including 4 Ivy League schools, Cal, Chicago, Duke and northwestern. I obviously do not regret the decision I made. Very few universities can match the undergraduate experience at Michigan. But as I mentioned above, UIUC is a great university. If finances are a concern and out of state schools do not give you a scholraship, go for UIUC.</p>

<p>

Wow! That's very impressive. I'm glad to hear that internationals have a very high opinion of Michigan. Michigan and Berkeley are regarded better than most of the Ivies in Asia and the Middle East(based on my experiences in Singapore and Qatar) IMO. I wonder what college you would have picked had you grown up here in the States. Michigan's prestige seems to decrease the closer you get to Ann Arbor ironically. I daresay you would have made a different decision had you grown up in the Midwest.</p>

<p>Michigan also has a very strong reputation in Europe, particularly in Germany. </p>

<p>I agree that Michigan is taken for granted (more appropriate a term to describe the sentiment than prestige) in the state of Michigan. I think that's natural. It is human nature to be attracted to the foreign or the different. I am not so sure that's the case in neighboring states in the Midwest however. Michigan's prestige in Chicago is second only to the Big 5 and the two Chicago powerhouses. Michigan's reputation is also formidable in NYC, DC and Silicon Valley.</p>

<p>So true. I'm from the east coast and UMich is as prestigious as the ivies (except HYP) over there. Tell any educated person in DC you go to the University of Michigan and they will think very highly of you. Not so much the case in Michigan.</p>

<p>i think it's impressive that a public, state university is considered one of the top 25 schools in the country.. umich is just that good</p>

<p>Top 25 according to USNews. In reality, it's probably more like top 15.</p>

<p>^yeah, no kidding.. it's a really good school</p>

<p>Okay I'm really interested in Michigan but what I'm afraid of is becoming just another number and becoming lost in the crowd, how do you avoid that? Also, what do the opportunities for undergraduate research and study abroad look like (they didnt place very much emphasis on either while i was there)?<br>
Even though I go to a large high school (3000+ people), when I went on campus I was just overwhelmed by the amount of people. The information session itself probably had well over 50 kids.</p>

<p>At first, you cannot help but feel lost in the crowd. Afterall, Michigan is a large school with a large campus. However, by the time you are a Sophomore, Michigan and Ann Arbor become really cozy. You can help the transition by joining special groups from the begining, such as UROP, the Residential College, intramurals etc...</p>

<p>i've always been told that the longer you are at a big university, the more you are able to make it as small as you want it to be.. of course smaller universities are always like this, but you can still make a large university as big as you want it to be, depending on what you do and who you spend your time with and whatnot (from what i've been told, at least)</p>

<p>I'm a freshman and was really nervous when I first came here, the number of people was overwhelming. But I've made quite a few friends through orientation, UROP, a couple of ECs and my classes of course.
Since its such a big school, its really upto you to take the initiative.
I personally didn't ever want to go to a big school but I'm really happy I chose to come here, the number of people you meet and the opportunities available are amazing.</p>

<p>For me, I think the opposite happened. The University started out small for me and most of my friends were from the initial group I met. The university isn't so huge that you don't run into people frequently. I constantly ran into my core group of friends everywhere. Then, as time passed, I branched out to different groups of people and individuals I met through class, church, activities, dorms, and social gatherings. I love how the university grew as I grew and explored different interests and I don't think you can get that experience at a small university.</p>

<p>

Really, what schools would it replace?</p>

<p>michigan could easily be in the top 20 and maybe the top 15 because of how highly ranked a lot of its programs are.. i think just because it is a public university makes it top out at about top 25</p>

<p>I have always preferred tiering rather than ranking, but I definitely agree that a ranking that excludes Cal and Michigan from the top 15 is severely flawed. I have yet to meet an academic who would not rank Michigan among the top 10 or top 15 universities for undergraduate education. Also, in my 10 years in the industry, I have yet to meet a fellow HR leader who would not place Michigan among her/his top 10 hunting grounds. For some reason, the vast majority of companies have Michigan very high on their "strategic" or "preferred" campus list. If a company has a list with just a dozen or so "strategic" campuses, chances are, Michigan will be on it.</p>

<p>As far as what schools Michigan would replace, I would say more than half of the schools ranked between #10 and #25 in the USNWR.</p>

<p>

My dad's an HR Manager and I asked him today what 10 schools nationally the company recruits at the most.</p>

<p>Here was his answer:</p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Penn</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>USC</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>Washington University in St. Louis</li>
</ol>

<p>So Cal and Michigan weren't on that list...but neither was Yale, Dartmouth, Chicago, Brown, etc. etc. I'm pretty sure hiring is regional in nature and there might only be several universities in the country who are universally top 10 on all HR hiring lists. UMich certainly isn't one of them.</p>

<p>As far as undergraduate education goes, I think many would argue that Michigan and Cal should even be ranked lower than they already are by USNews if we are just considering this category alone. Michigan has a lot of departments but so does every other school. It trails in virtually every other area: class size, faculty resources, graduation rates, quality of teaching, S/F ratio, academic resources for study abroad, etc. etc.</p>

<p>Please stop making stuff up. Your dad is NOT a HR manager. Do you know how I know? Because your list doesn't make sense, on two fronts.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>No HR manager will be able to rank schools 1-10 where they recruit the most, because not only does it vary year to year, it's based on the available talent, not really where the person went to school. Every qualified hiring manager will be able to tell you this.</p></li>
<li><p>List is composed of schools all over the country. I can't think of a single company that can actually hire like this. Like you said, hiring is regional, and recruiting is done by the regional office. It's unlikely that your top 10 schools comes from 4 schools in the northeast, 2 schools from the midwest, 2 schools from the west coast and 1 school in the south. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Now, you did say "nationally", I work for a fortune 100 company, and I have conducted interviews myself and very involved with the recruiting process myself, I have no inkling of where the other groups hire, I do know where my company hires most, but I will doubt anyone can produce a top 10 list. No way can I produce a ranked list from 1 to 10. </p>

<p>Also, even if your dad is a HR manager, your list means nothing. This is one company out of thousands out there. btw, nice touch on the WUSTL.</p>

<p>Actually ring<em>of</em>fire, Michigan is one of those that is universally recruited by most major firms. There are only a few such schools...maybe 2 or 3 others. Your father's office may not recruit on Michigan's campus, but if he works for a large company, I would not be surprised if HQ recruits heavily at Michigan. Take it from me. As a senior HR officer at the world's #1 HR Consulting firm, I have consulted closely with other major Management Consulting firms for most leading firms across all industries. Michigan is arguably the most recuited campus in the US. Now unlike you dad, I cannot come up with a finite list of schools and I certainly cannot rank them, but some schools just seem to show up on most companies' recruitment lists. Michigan is one of those. Cornell is another. I think it si primarily thanks to their very large, ridiculously loyal, relatively successful alums. And since those two schools are excellent in every single field of study, quite naturally, their alums are scattered across all industries.</p>

<p>And your comment about undergraduate education is your opinion. Just as in my opinion, Michigan should be ranked among the top 3 or 4 undergraduate institutions in the nation. Fortunately, opinion is meaningless. As a matter of fact, Michigan is one of the top 10 or top 15 undergraduate institutions in the nation. Clearly, the academic world things so. The peer assessment score proves that beyond any reasonable doubt. </p>

<p>And I am not sure how you figure that Michigan trails in class size, quality of teaching, S/F ratio, academic resources or study abroad. Can you prove that all universities report those statistics identically and that those numbers can be interpreted and translated in a linear method? Besides, I fail to see how any of those criteria translates into a great education for the individual. Education is a highly personal matter. For those serious about their education, Michigan will offer more opprotunities (academic and professional) than all but a handful of schools. I know for a fact that the education I got at Michigan could have only been duplicated at very few universities.</p>

<p>actually, on second thought, please do share, where your dad works. then, we can easily verify this list.</p>