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Very often it turns out to be psychological inferiority, rather than the actual age discrimination. In another words, “self-abased”.</p>
<p>@jwxie</p>
<p>Do you then hold that age discrimination is indeed a big issue? It seems that earlier on you came out mostly in favor of CS.</p>
<p>My boss is over 60 and is a great software engineer.</p>
<p>So all this talk about age discrimination in CS.</p>
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</p>
<p>If that’s the case, then why is it any more pronounced in CS? Wouldn’t it apply to all fields equally?</p>
<p>
Home’s argument is weak, IMO. Good companies will not sacrifice older employees who have the right skills and experiences over fresh graduates. </p>
<p>I attended the NYC VMWare expo in 2009. Most attendees look pretty “senior” to me, and I say age range from 35 - 45. A parish member that I knew also attended. He was 48 at the time. However, interestingly, the representative were 1:1 - 1 “senior” representative leads 1 “junior” representative.</p>
<p>The rest of my opinions are just observations that I made as a student. </p>
<p>Why is it more pronounced in CS? </p>
<p>Software industry is a challenging field. In this context, the world "challenging " alludes to the fact that more younger people are attracted to the software and technology. The Internet, and affordable computers, as well as “open source” initiatives allow young people to begin programming as early as ten years old. I knew a few people started programming around that age. Even simple HTML is consider a step toward programming. Microsoft even developed a kid’s version of Basics: Small Basics. Moreover, if you know LabView, then you know about the drag and plug features, which makes learning programming simpler for kids (as well as for rapid coding for the competition).</p>
<p>Whereas other traditional engineerings cannot be done or trained at home, unless your parents are engineers themselves. In another words, people from other fields usually do not begin the learning until they enter college. </p>
<p>When you are surrounded by so many young adroit software engineers, such atmosphere produces a reasonable stress, regardless how well you perform as a software engineer.</p>
<p>Whereas in fields like civil engineering, or mechanical engineering, or electrical engineering, people (and I stress it, the general public) prefers engineers to be older due to the nature we just mentioned. Which contractor do you prefer? 30 (assuming graduation at age of 23) or someone who has been in the field for at least 10 years, and he’s 50 already. Probably the latter one.</p>
<p>When you watch a film today, do you see young mechanical engineers? Sometime. But you usually young software engineers in films. The public has its own “images” for each discipline. </p>
<p>Why so? People are so familiar with the legends of the giants listed below.
Name, company, age</p>
<p>William Gates (Microsoft)- 20
Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook)- 20
Larry Page and Sergey Brin (Google)- 25
Larry Ellison (Oracle)- 33</p>
<p>Thus, very often this age discrimination turns out to be “self-abased” due to stress and the public’s preference.</p>
<p>There are exceptions. My classmate from college is 36 (we took music together) and he had a degree from law school already. He just finished his CS this year. He was hired right away after graduation because he knows his stuff very well. He outperformed the younger graduates. But he said managers he met from other interviews prefers younger graduates. He’s a very confident guy IMO.</p>
<p>Interesting tread and there is definitely some truth to the points presented. I have worked in IT since mid 80s. I have multiple degrees in computer science including a bachelors degree and 2 graduate degrees. I have worked as a software engineer for commercial companies (IBM) and defense contractors.</p>
<p>There is no question since the last 10 years there have been changes that impact career options. We now have lots of open source software and libraries available, so the writing of low-level custom software including advanced data structures is less emphasized. Now there is a lot of emphasis on integrating packages, using libraries, development environments, etc.</p>
<p>I think one key to maintain employment is to be nimble and keep up with ever changing technologies including programming languages, environments, design paradigm shifts (e.g., agile development, cloud computing, etc). Having a broader background including deep domain knowledge in difference areas (e.g., text and data mining, geospatial systems, cloud computing) also helps as opposed to being just a programmer with knowledge too tied up in a very narrow band.</p>
<p>Finally, working in an area that requires a high level security clearance is also a big bonus probably more so than I have ever seen before in particular since cleared work cannot be outsourced to third world countries; the security clearance will greatly enhance ones job security and salary, including for younger engineers and old timers as myself.</p>
<p>dcomus,</p>
<p>Thanks for your insights! Your last paragraph in particular is a light-hearted comfort. </p>
<p>Based on the tone of your writing, it seems that you have moved around in different jobs/companies at least a few times. Was it easier or harder to find a satisfying job as time progressed in your career?</p>
<p>(For a long time now, I’ve been convinced that age discrimination is a bigger threat to long-term success in CS than outsourcing is.)</p>
<p>uclacee,</p>
<p>During the early part of my career I typically stayed at a company 3 years. I have worked for only 4 companies, having now been at my current employer (a defense contractor) for 16 years.</p>
<p>I kept in touch with some coworkers that stayed at IBM after I left, and it sounded like at least for commercial software developers it turned into a sweatshop, and it was common for older developers to get added to a surplus list, and then layed off.</p>
<p>So, as others and I stated before, it seems one must stay nimble, keeping up with ever changing technology and approaches to be successful in the CS area and also develop strong domain knowledge in different areas.</p>
<p>Over time, however, one can easily get pushed into management to justify a higher salary.</p>
<p>As long as India remains a hub for cheap CS labor, CS jobs will continue to be outsourced. Make sure you try to get a jobs that is high-level, like project manager as opposed to a rote programming job</p>