Outsourcing of engineering and computer jobs

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>I constantly hear on a daily basis that jobs in the engineering as well as the computer sector are being outsourced to areas like China, India and other third-world countries. Well, I don't want to lose my (future) job because of this, and I certainly don't want to have to relocate to some place 1000 miles away to find another job. </p>

<p>Is it true that a lot of jobs in engineering and computers are being outsourced?
How much will that affect your chances of getting a job in one of these areas?
Does this mean that eventually, in the future, there will be very few if no jobs in these areas?</p>

<p>Also please provide your personal experiences regarding your job hunt or whatever you feel will be helpful if added. I really want to go into engineering or computers, but not if I figure out that there's no future for it in America anymore.</p>

2

<p>Check the BLS OOH. There’s a future for engineers AND for computer scientists/software engineers. Some fields are more prone to outsourcing than others. Programming, for instance, is prone. EE can be prone depending on the discipline. Etc. The BLS OOH explains this in some basic detail, and I believe they provide links or references to primary sources for such data.</p>

3

<p>^ this dude is always the first to respond to outsourcing threads. With the flawed BLS reports at his hands, he intends to lure people to believe that cs is better.</p>

<p>Auburn, Let the EE guys talk about EE outsourcing. Many fields can be outsourced, it doesn’t mean they will.</p>

4

<p>China and India aren’t third-world countries.</p>

5

<p>“this dude is always the first to respond to outsourcing threads.”

  • This is because my answer is easy and simple and verifiable. What’s your answer?</p>

<p>“With the flawed BLS reports at his hands”

  • You have a better report? Please share.</p>

<p>“he intends to lure people to believe that cs is better.”

  • In fairness, I said that programming is prone, and that’s what most people think of when it comes to CS majors. I really didn’t say that CS is better here. Come on.</p>

<p>“Auburn, Let the EE guys talk about EE outsourcing.”

  • Sorry, I’m perfectly qualified to point out that the BLS OOH reports on this sort of thing. The person I was answering is asking about computer jobs too. The only reason I mention EE is that I remember from a previous discussion about outsourcing."</p>

<p>“Many fields can be outsourced, it doesn’t mean they will.”

  • Sure, but nobody said they would. I said some things were prone to it, but not that there will be no jobs for programmers, for instance. In fact, quite the contrary: there will be more programmers working in the US in 10 years than there will be EEs, even though programmer employment is decreasing and EE employment is increasing.</p>

<p>I don’t know where this is coming from, greenvision, I mean, I didn’t make the report. I tend to like it, and don’t have any immediate reasons for dismissing it out of hand.</p>

6

<p>Auburn, I tend to think of the dot com boom when it comes to CS/ IT. IT is down the drain, did you forget where it stood back in the day? IT was the *hit! and today, CCNA and A+ certified technicians are roaming about trying to break the 15/hr barrier. Although I dont see a similar fate for all CS related jobs, I think it will a struggle knowing that other majors like CompE and EE qualify for most of the jobs that are held by CS qualified individuals. </p>

<p>Another trend is the enrollment for cs students. It has decreased 60% according to Cornell Uni. Cornell happens to be a good school for engineering and science and I tend to take this statistic very seriously. A downward trend does not indicate in anyway the creation of new jobs , after all, thats what outsourcing is out to kill.</p>

<p>Now, I do think BLS is all right for a general estimate of things, but it does have flaws. It doesn’t include " storms " like recessions and the political nature of tech industry in this country. Things change fast. It happened before who is to tell it wont happen again?
A better approach to understanding CS layoffs and offshoring is to look at individual companies. This is a tedious task but it will give an accurate measurement of how much EE is prone to outsourcing compared to CS. </p>

<p>According to Little 'ole BLS, Computer scientists held about 28,900 jobs in 2008( not including computer engineers, remember, its not CS)</p>

<p>Electrical engineers 157,800
Electronics engineers, except computer 143,700</p>

<p>add em up, 305500 jobs held by EE blokes. Now tell me, </p>

<p>How does this “”“”“”" there will be more programmers working in the US in 10 years than there will be EEs “”“” make any sense to you? </p>

<p>With a projected growth <em>cough</em> ~20% , it will take a lot more than 10 years to catch up. All this assuming everything goes fine. We know it did in 2000 ;)</p>

<p>Dont take it personally, but I like to point out the facts. The only outsource-able field in EE is programming itself. Which is related to CS.</p>

7

<p>"other majors like CompE and EE qualify for most of the jobs that are held by CS qualified individuals. "

  • I think you overestimate the number of jobs for CS majors which really can be done by CmpEs and EEs. There are a lot of them, but if you look at the right numbers, giving EE/CmpE majors 75% of CS/SE jobs PLUS jobs only EEs and CmpEs can do still doesn’t make them have more than CS/SEs. Sorry, there are just that many jobs.</p>

<p>“According to Little 'ole BLS, Computer scientists held about 28,900 jobs in 2008( not including computer engineers, remember, its not CS)
Electrical engineers 157,800
Electronics engineers, except computer 143,700
add em up, 305500 jobs held by EE blokes. Now tell me,
How does this “””“”“” there will be more programmers working in the US in 10 years than there will be EEs “”“” make any sense to you?"

  • Most CS/SE majors don’t end up working as Computer Scientist, which is the equivalent of Mathematician or Physicist. The BLS describes qualifications for jobs, too, and if you had been paying attention when you read, you would have seen where it says that most CS jobs require graduate education.</p>

<p>Go add up the numbers for “Programmer” and “Software Engineer” and get back to me. There are more of those than there are of all the others put together, possibly by an order or magnitude. Also, and you can tell me if this is a faulty assumption, programming and SE have as their corresponding undergraduate major CS/SE just like Electrical Engineering has as its corresponding undergraduate major EE. That doesn’t mean EEs can’t work in Software and it doesn’t mean CS’s can’t work in EE, but ceteris paribus, certain jobs will prefer one degree to another. I know this is true for some companies because they’ve told me.</p>

<p>"Dont take it personally, but I like to point out the facts. The only outsource-able field in EE is programming itself. Which is related to CS. "

  • Well, let’s not pretend that manufacturing roles in EE - people who are involved in actually putting the stuff together - face the same fate as the US manufacturing industry as a whole. Third world countries - and developing countries - aren’t only making software, they’re making cheap hardware too. And, for the most part, their hardware is better than their software, and cheaper. There will always be jobs for CS/SE/Engineers here in the states, but there are few subfields that are immune from outsourcing (or offshoring)… Civil comes to mind.</p>
8

<p>From the viewpoint of someone working in IT, Auburn is right to a point, there are some subfields and specialties that cannot be offshored. </p>

<p>It will also depend alot on who you work for, or what sort of clients you support at your job. My company for example, I wouldn’t put it past them to offshore everyone stateside if they could. However we support certain clients that fall under ITAR rules, which means they can only be accessed by US citizens. So I spend a fair bit of time helping Indian techs do things because they don’t have access to certain systems.</p>

<p>If you can find a company willing to help you get your TS/SCI clearance, that seems to make a big difference.</p>

9

<p>“The only outsource-able field in EE is programming itself. Which is related to CS”. Sorry, this is not true. All EE jobs can be outsourcing. IBM and Intel (Hi-Tech Manufacturing jobs) are outsourcing many jobs everyday. Any job in ‘FAB=Fabrication Plant’ is moving to Asia due to significant subsidize of foreign governments. Design jobs (Xilinx, Altera) are outsourcing to India and other countries. Chips/wafers testing are outsourcing to Asia long time ago. Medical Doctor could not be outsourcing but it is not EE. I hate to say that this is pretty much the end of US high tech unless someone keeps inventing new stuffs in US which is not very likely. It will not crash immediately, it may be similar to car industrial in US. If you join the field, make sure it will last until you retire! Good luck.</p>

10

<p>The government has ALOT of jobs BTW…if your a citizen.
Besides all the “EE is better”, “CS is better” crap. Engineering/CS is still a very good major to get into. You have above a 3.0 and believe you’ll be fine. Also, believe it or not, the decreasing enrollment in CS seems to have created more job opportunities (at least from my experience.)</p>

11

<p>Ain’t (yes, I can use ain’t…we are engineers, not english majors) no defense companies outsourcing jobs. All of those Northrop Grummans, General Dynamics, CSC’s, etc are not outsourcing those federal contracts that they are winning.</p>

12

<p>If you are a mediocre coder or EE will mean that the chance of outsourcing is high. There is a very large supply of EE’s and programmers in China and India who can do many of the jobs that Americans are doing. However, many defense and research related jobs will remain in the United States. I would say if you are in EE or CS, doing research as an undergrad, going to grad school for at least an MS and specializing is necessary because that will distinguish you from a generic outsourceable engineer. </p>

<p>Personally, I think that today Biotechnology and BME are better choices since the programs here are much more hands on and provide more marketable skills than the programs abroad.</p>

13

<p>^ I wouldn’t go so far as that, but fundamentally you’re right. You need to be good at what you do, and do something that justifies your salary, if you want to do well. There are jobs in the private sector for SEs and EEs, tons of jobs, and most of these jobs aren’t going away. Low-level jobs are more susceptible.</p>

<p>(There are many, many, many more jobs for EEs and SEs than there are for BioMeds now and this will not change in the next 8 years, accordingly to the BLS OOH. Also, I suspect lots of BioMed jobs require some graduate education, particularly if they involve research)</p>

14

<p>U of M engineering advisor person told me that grad school is pretty much the norm for biomedical engineering students.</p>

15

<p>Alright. So in light of this situation, let’s say that I go to my local state university (University of Connecticut) to major in electrical engineering and in 4 years end up with a 3.0 GPA, Bachelors degree in EE and an internship. Let’s say that the internship doesn’t lead to a full time position. </p>

<p>What are my chances of getting a job in that state?
How greatly would my chances improve if I went to graduate school? How about if I went to a better undergrad like RPI or CMU?</p>

16

<p>“Some fields are more prone to outsourcing than others… EE can be prone depending on the discipline.” - AuburnMathTutor</p>

<p>hey, could you tell me what those disciplines are? Any EE disciplines you would recommend? Haha I’m a HS senior trying to figure out what in EE I’d want to do (assuming I stick with EE). This would be a good preliminary way to rule out fields!</p>

17

<p>I cannot stress to you guys: DO NOT WORRY ABOUT OUTSOURCING. There will be great jobs available for all engineers. Lame ones will always have problems finding employment. Just pick a field that interests you, do well, and everything will be fine.</p>

<p>In response to the q’s. If you go to a state school, get around a 3.0 with maybe an internship, your chances of getting a job upon graduation are 99%. </p>

<p>Regarding EE concentrations…some sort of verilog code monkeying could probably be outsourced. A field like power-systems would not be. However, like I said, it doesn’t matter. You will find a good job regardless.</p>

18

<p>get job where you need to get a security clearance…outsourcing problem solved!</p>

19

<p>"If you go to a state school, get around a 3.0 with maybe an internship, your chances of getting a job upon graduation are 99%. "</p>

<p>Well, maybe. I wish that was the case though, as it was in past years. I have friends with MS degree in engineering, 3.5+ GPA with previous internships…Currently unemployed.</p>

20

<p>^ What field are they in? I’d imagine the only way this could happen is if (a) they repeatedly failed drug and background checks, (b) they were in something too exotic for regular employment, or (c) they’ve turned down jobs they’ve been offered.</p>