<p>Now that my children are in college, I realized we overdid the college prep and admission thing. Still, I am grateful that they are in schools where they are happy and thriving. It just didn't have to be so stressful while they were in HS. I feel they were deprived of the fun they could've had. My one regret.</p>
<p>Her checklist of how to evaluate parenting success should not be seen as mutually exclusive with success in elite school admission. I reject the implication that if a student (perhaps with parental pushing) strives for and achieves admission to a school like Harvard, he must have necessarily neglected to become a happy, creative, intellectually curious, passionate and compassionate individual. That’s absurd in and of itself, but also ridiculous because top schools absolutely look for those qualities in their students. Perhaps my viewpoint has been jaded by the sour grapes of the competitive parents who live in our region, since they tend to pooh-pooh the achievement of getting into HYPS et al. by saying, “Well, I wanted my child to be happy and to have a childhood.” Gee, do you mean every HYPS admit never picked a dandelion or hiked a trail or gazed at the stars or attended a sleepover or went to birthday parties? Silly, really silly.</p>
<p>That said, it is also true that many students must sacrifice a lot in order to be the sort of student who gets into a top school. However, often what is sacrificed is the unstructured hanging out, social media, texting, and goofing off time. That may matter or it may not, but it’s not as though smart kids never have any fun because they are being oppressed by their pushy parents.</p>
<p>My oldest didn’t sacrifice anything. He had a very singleminded interest and he was very good at it. He was lucky that school came easily to him so even with a rigorous schedule and a couple of school based ECs (one of which was only truly time consuming from Jan- March), he had plenty of time to do what he liked. My other son did a good job of persuading colleges he was a diamond in the rough. He grew up a lot in college.</p>
<p>I totally agree with the article. We did not live in a community where elite college admission was important, or even on the radar for 95% of the kids. My kids knew that we expected them to attend college, but they also knew that we (the parents) didn’t care which college. My main goal for my kids when they were growing up were for them to be happy, kind, respectful, curious and resourceful. I think they have succeeded in achieving those qualities. </p>
<p>I didn’t experience this crazy college race until getting on CC. I was just looking for information about Musical Theater admissions, since it is different from regular admissions. Frankly, I was shocked to see parents and kids so totally focused on elite college admissions as the only goal. So many of these threads are by stressed out kids and parents. Kind of sad, IMO. Future success (if you measure it as being happy, healthy and self-supporting) is not dependent upon getting into Harvard.</p>
<p>This article just seems silly to me. Of course, raising our kids to be good people is the primary goal. But there is nothing about coaching them to stay on top of their homework and register for SAT subject tests that will make them less compassionate. As @thegfg said above, I rather think that those elite schools are looking for the same qualities. The wacky stereotype of the overbearing parent that the author puts up as a strawman (hiring a private college counselor, doing their science fair project for them, etc) just doesn’t ring true. While I am sure people like that exist, it’s not who I see in my community (among parents of kids admitted to or applying to elite schools) or here on CC. And any parent who would be ashamed to tell their dinner party acquaintances that their kid goes to a non-ivy school is a terrible person who probably couldn’t raise a “good person” anyhow.</p>
<p>Listen to others in a world will get one into trouble and nothing else. Do what seearopriate under your personal circumstaes and according to yor personal preferences. I do not read all stupidity out there. It is printed just because they have to print something, they are working people also, they need to support their families.</p>
<p>The importance of elite school admission is constantly discussed on here, with many intelligent people disagreeing on its value. Regional differences in attitudes and job markets explain the variety of perspectives, as do specific individual academic and career goals and family financial situations. For our middle class family, elite school admission allowed us to pay for college with limited borrowing due to generous FA. It also allowed my kids to obtain very well-paying jobs after graduation without having to fork over more money for grad school–money they didn’t have. Finally, we live in a state and region with a high percentage of well-educated foreigners from India and China. Job competition is fiercer here than perhaps in other places in the country. It absolutely helped my children to have a diploma from a well-regarded school. In fact, the companies who employed them only recruit candidates at top schools.</p>
<p>Obviously there are many ways to skin a cat, and plenty of people have managed the same results as we have by following different paths. Nevertheless, while there are no guarantees, working hard and getting in a top school tends to be a plan that works quite well for lots of people. If it didn’t work, there wouldn’t be so many students and their parents still attempting the same old thing. So it’s ridiculous to act as though parents are somehow irrational or misguided in supposing that HYPS et al. can springboard their kids to success. How petty of the author to indirectly paint these highly intelligent, hard-working, extremely accomplished elite school students as uncreative, cold-hearted drones! She obviously hasn’t met many of them if she thinks that. I received a newsletter yesterday from D’s department at HYPS with short bios of their graduates. There was no shortage of kids energetically pursuing ways to improve society.</p>
<p>That said, I also totally agree with opening people’s eyes to all the other roads to success students can take. </p>
<p>Yawn. Just another article basically accusing people of being “helicopter parents”. I am more concerned with kids who have little/no adult guidance.</p>
<p>PS Her checklist is a convenient, feel-good for parents who may doubt their parenting skills or their children’s academic worthiness. Unlike admission to elite schools which is definitely accomplished or not, there’s no way to objectively assess some of those other goals, so parents can quite easily say they’ve succeeded. Compassionate? Hmmm…: DS/DD served food to the homeless at the soup kitchen to get NHS volunteer hours. Check! </p>
<p>"Compassionate? Hmmm…: DS/DD served food to the homeless at the soup kitchen to get NHS volunteer hours. Check!
- What it has to do with parents? Kids wanted to serve homeless, so they served homeless, another kid wnats to spend time in Medical Research lab (I do not know why this would be less valuable than serving homeless) or tutor somebody or pick up garbage from the street or work hardest several hours every single day to be able to represent her school at state (again, why this is any less valuable?) or whatever combination of the above (and most are involved in combination), what it has to do with the parents? It is kid’s own passion and desire and seeking opportunities to develop personally, to be able to connect to others. These kids know very well that whenever they help others, they help themselves the most, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do the the Ivy / Elite admission, it has to do with being personally satisfied and learn valuable skills along the way that will help them to live productive lives (if this is the goal). Another alternative may be being on a couch playing a computer game…well?</p>
<p>^ The article suggests that rather than seek to help our kids get into top schools, we should seek to develop in them certain qualities (like compassion) and then judge our parenting success by whether the child exhibits those qualities rather than judge ourselves based on their college admission results. My point was just that it’s hard to objectively measure those qualities, therefore parents who are so inclined and need to feel good can easily say they’ve succeeded whether they actually have or not. They can’t do that with admissions. Either the kid gets in or he doesn’t. I was not expressing any agreement with her suggestion, in part because I agree that personality traits and interests don’t necessarily stem from the parenting received. </p>
<p>^Most parents (actually absolutely ALL) that I know do not " help our kids get into top schools" at all. They do not care. Even my D. way back in HS said: “I will do fine anywhere”. All this is just a talk. Most parents do not care, They care though that kids do not waste their time at college and do not waste family money while there. They care about end results. Since many around us tend to send kids to Med. Schools, they want the cheapest UG possible, so most kids are on Merit awards being top of the tops. This is the trend here which is led by MD parents, who have been there and have a goal for their kids to educate them without debt / student loans. All of these kids are compassionate with very wide range of interests, since others simply will not survive a cruel pre-med / Med. School / Residency jorney, the most brutal of them all.</p>
<p>All I can say is that the “We” she addresses this screed to does not include me. Nor does it include the parents of the other Ivy admits from S’s HS class, most of whom I know quite well.</p>
<p>None of us did our kids’ projects, edited their essays, or any of that stuff. I’m sure we all encouraged our kids to explore varied activities and supported them in those things they enjoyed. I’m sure that most of us also encouraged public service in some form because it was part of what we did as a family. I’m sure that we all encouraged intellectual as well as artistic interests from early childhood because, again, that is part of what we are as individuals and part of what we do as a family.</p>
<p>If she is surrounded by people whose main motivation in life is competition with others, well. that’s too bad for her.</p>
<p>I follow the “Class of 20XX” threads for my kids’ years. There are absolutely communities in which kids are coddled and pushed with the very clear goal of elite-college admissions. On one of these threads, a parent lives in a competitive school district in which three high-achieving kids had already committed suicide before the end of September this year. There are also several posters who feel the judgment and disdain from other parents on a daily basis. Let’s not pretend this problem and these pressures don’t exist. I am glad no one here has not experienced any of the downsides of high expectations, but to dismiss the presence of negative behavior and outcomes in highly competitive environments seems incredibly naive to me.</p>
<p>I’m sure that’s true, Sally, but in that case the author needs to make it very clear that she is not claiming that this is the norm everywhere. (BTW, I certainly saw a lot of parent work on projects in elementary school. Not, interestingly enough, from any of the parents of kids who were later admitted to the most selective schools. There was one parent of a kid in the G/T program who admonished me for not being at home working on my kid’s science project. “It’s his project, not mine,” I replied. Interestingly, her D was not among the top students by the time they got through HS.) This a small town where most of the kids were here K-12, so I sure of this. </p>
<p>sally, you are right. The communities around me resemble what she describes, so I can absolutely relate to the competiveness that’s out there and to the awful pressure many kids feel to get in the top schools. I don’t like the frenzied vibe at all and agree it can be damaging. But I also won’t throw the baby out with the bath water. The fact that there is craziness doesn’t mean that everyone who desires elite school admission for their child is like the parents she describes, nor does it mean every high-achieving student has been emotionally crippled by pushy parents. Also, attending top schools is really great in a lot of ways. A kid could do far worse than making elite admission one of his goals. </p>
<p>Often I find that those who don’t care about college rank don’t have to. Just this morning a woman whose husband is CEO and owner of a major corporation was preaching the “no worries, there’s a school for everyone” mantra. Yes there is, and if you are extremely rich and well-connected it won’t matter much where your child attends. If your state flagship is Berkeley, it also doesn’t matter if you don’t go to Stanford.</p>
<p>This is a very tiny subculture that pretty much chooses to be very close-mindedly obsessed (people like this certainly have the education and the resources to expose themselves to alternative viewpoints that may differ from those prevalent in their immediate community). I know there are families as described in the article, but I kept feeling who is this “we” she is referring to? “Every” [AP/honors class and activity] “that you required of your child”? Huh? Who is you? I didn’t require any activities or classes of my child. My kids chose their own activities and classes and their own level of commitment to them. No, I didn’t do my kids’ work or projects. I often don’t even see it before it’s submitted. </p>
<p>I think the assumption on the part of these people that their own attitudes and pushing their kids is so widespread is really quite telling. It’s an extremely small minority of people. A much larger majority have no idea what classes their kids are taking and don’t even ensure that their kids do their homework. Just yesterday, my daughter told me that an assignment which did require a parental sign-off that it was completed was turned in by only half her class. This teacher had emailed parents about the assignment, so I have to assume that half the families just don’t care at all.</p>
<p>It seems fashionable these days to bash elite colleges, students aiming for elite colleges, parents of students at elite colleges and everything related to elite colleges. The exception seems to be elite flagships, even though they can cost more for some families. This article is just part of the trend, imo. </p>
<p>It’s been my experience that the students actually attending our so called elite colleges and universities are among the least likely to need the kind of handholding ( editing essays, completing projects, etc.) that the author deplores. </p>
<p>I agree with the poster who is more concerned for the students who don’t have supportive families and those for whom going to college at all is a struggle. The author is complaining about a small privileged minority of parents who are probably keep up with the Jones types in most aspects of their lives, and college is just one more award to be won. I’ve met a couple in my community but they are seen as obnoxious and misguided by the majority. </p>
<p>“Over Parenting - How does this article sit with you?”</p>
<p>I don’t think I can relate much to it. </p>
<p>TheGFG, the author did start out by saying “some parents.” I doubt anyone thinks that all kids who achieve the elite-school result have pushy parents, are less loved and accepted for who they are, or have no joy in their lives. But in environments where there is an overriding sense of pressure to succeed, some handle it better than others. And it’s not just academics–it’s ballet, music, sports and other pursuits.</p>
<p>moonchild, if it has become “fashionable” to bash everything related to elite colleges these days (not that I think this article does that), it’s probably only a correction to the many years of escalating obsession with them. Just look at the record numbers of kids applying to these schools each year, and the rise of programs, consultants, books and websites dedicated to increasing their odds of admission. Read the threads here from Ivy-obsessed high schoolers. Times have certainly changed from when most of us adults were applying to college.</p>