Overview of our visit at Carnegie Mellon

Colleges & Universities A-Z Carnegie Mellon University
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<p>
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My point is that those of you who are fortunate enough to attend CMU or other elite colleges should realize that it might have been the result of who read your essay or some slight nuance of demographics or even that your parents could pay the full bill that got you there, and not necessarily that you are superior to everybody else.

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<p>How could you even say this to kids? Are you trying to slight our self-esteem? I don't understand why a parent would ever openly say this to kids who are trying to go to, or are in a university.</p>

<p>Truth be told, my parents CAN'T afford CMU. Because I love the university so much, and because I'm so interested in the research it has to offer I took it upon myself to take loans so I can go here. I know many other students at CMU who have done the same. In the end, it isn't how much money you owe it's how much you enjoy what you do. If you truly enjoy what you do then I would contend that the money will come to you - and if it doesn't, big whoop; at least you're doing something you love at a place you love.</p>

<p>I, myself, was accepted to an Ivy and declined their offer to come here. I was also accepted to a highly respected school in California - but again, decided on CMU. The fact of the matter is I was able to join TWO research labs at CMU my freshman year. This is nearly unheard of anywhere else. Professors are out-going and are willing to teach those who are willing to learn. It was truly amazing how easily I got research positions when I showed them how much I wanted to learn.</p>

<p>I've talked to at least 15 prospective students and I gave advice from my heart. I know of many other students at CMU who have done the same. taxguy, I find it very hard to believe that you talked to 5+ people and didnt find ONE who was caring/affectionate. CMU does, indeed, have a sense of pride - but it may not be the kind of pride you find at a state school. Our pride is in our academics and our research. When we hear about CMU winning a competition, news spreads like wildfire across campus and everyone has their head up. During carnvial, EVERYONE is happy. There is UNDOUBTEDLY a sense of pride. </p>

<p>I can whole heartedly say I am completely happy with CMU, and VERY glad I made this decision. </p>

<p>As for the "subbasement," I don't think this should be used to describe the campus. I have a couple design friends and have never heard them complain about their studio (though they are there quite a bit).</p>

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<p>coltrane,
First of all, relax. I responded to the comments that students who attended cmu were doing so because they were obviously better than others who were waitlisted or attending elsewhere, which is just not true. Admissions are unpredictable, and we all know it. Also if you notice, I said in post #106 that you were smart enough or talented enough to gain admission. I am not trying to damage your self-esteem; on the contrary, I am giving you your due. I am only saying that the attitude that those who are actually attending are somehow superior to those who were waitlisted or who didn't attend because of finances is misguided and sounds elitist (which I'm sure you all don't intend to do.)</p>

<p>BTW, while money isn't everything, in the end the amount you owe IS important. It is nice to go to the college of your dreams and have a fun four years, but not at any cost. Debt affects your job choices, your lifestyle and even your ability to start a family. I personally (IMO) thought it was sort of irresponsible of admissions and f.a. people to try to sell the idea that any amount of debt, even 100K, is worth it. Having lived through this, I wouldn't recommend it.</p>

<p>I'm truly glad you are happy at cmu, and I wish you well in you future endeavors. :)</p>

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<p>I'm sure lkf725 had good intentions in his posts.</p>

<p>Once again I found the need to quote this:</p>

<p>"I personally (IMO) thought it was sort of irresponsible of admissions and f.a. people to try to sell the idea that any amount of debt, even 100K, is worth it. Having lived through this, I wouldn't recommend it.
"</p>

<p>CMU did this? I've had a different experience. The phone ladies were rude sometimes but they told me NOT to apply ED if I was interested in other schools or wanted to compare aid. That was a really bad "sell".</p>

<p>Also the times have changed and a 100k debt is not as much as you think if you are in something like SCS where the avg is 80k or more STARTING. Even IS/Engineering/Tepper boasts 60-70k and if working a few years is worth it at a school you truly love then it is up to the individual to make that decision; I don't even think the phone ladies would even IMPLY such things as "come to CMU no matter what".</p>

<p>Obviously, and I've said this before, if you are going to be taking 100k debt and you are majoring in English or something then you should look elsewhere. </p>

<p>The truth is, every college tries to sell itself and most do it even more than CMU; ie Tufts, WUSTL, NYU, etc. I've gotten mail + advertisement from Ivies and other top schools but never one from Carnegie Mellon.</p>

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<p>lkf725:</p>

<p>I did not mean to sound like I was overreacting, sorry about that. I must have misread your post, thank you for clarifying. </p>

<p>Again, I don't agree with your debt scenario. I've spoken with many of my parents' friends who came out of graduate school with 100k+ worth of debt and they all said they would do it again in an instant. They have happy families and are doing things they enjoy. While finances are important, they should not be placed first. As I said in my original post, if you do something you enjoy the money will most likely find you - and if it doesnt, at least happiness will. I guess it's a matter of opinion, and I understand yours. I was brought up to pursue my passion, and this is why I attend to do; no debt will stop me.</p>

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it might have been the result of who read your essay or some slight nuance of demographics or even that your parents could pay the full bill that got you there

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<p>OR it may have been because you worked hard in high school and deserved it.</p>

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<p>Now that everyone has had their say...I need to add that my D, now entering her Junior Year at CMU, has told me she has never worked on her academics so hard in her life! But, surprisingly she loves it! One of her essays stated that she wanted to be in an environment where the kids loved to learn..and, by golly, she found it! All of her friends have been either lab partners or in her study groups. She's in MCS. The undergraduate advisors have been available and supportive. But she did comment that they appear to prefer the STAR pupils who are pulling the "A's" so she was a little depressed this past year. However, the upshot of this has been that she appears to party less and is now buckling down more. It is amazing how competition when it rears its ugly head can be the great motivator! She has told me that she has learned so much, especially in organic chemistry, in spite of the fact she only pulled a "C." It truly is amazing that in developing your self while learning about your strengths and weaknesses, you will acknowledge that there are some skills that need to be learned and those that you have the innate talent for and come quite easily to you. That is what an undergraduate education is all about. My D could have easily been devastated by her "C's." Rather she has learned to roll with the punches and to select coursework both interesting and more aligned with her talents. She is NOT giving up chemistry by the way and was able to get an internship in Flavor Chemistry at a flavor lab that does flavors for ice creams..Ben and Jerry's. Haagen Daz, etc. this summer. Her Carnegie Mellon credentials helped her get this opportunity, by the way. As a matter of fact, she is so proud of her school that she always brags about how difficult it is and how all of her friends are so bright and talented. She is really pleased with the whole experience and would not have selected any place else once that acceptance arrived. She will have debt when she graduates, but her ultimate goal is to stay in Pittsburgh and work for HEINZ...not a shoddy dream.</p>

<p>One more thing...I don't believe CMU is a place for the faint of heart. It is very tough and you need much psychic resilience. If you are easily depressed over B's and C's, don't come here! It is very stressful and you need to be able to control your anxiety and stay on top of your work as it comes quickly and unrelentingly. Just a final thought.....</p>

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<p>acceptedalready notes,"
CMU did this? I've had a different experience. The phone ladies were rude sometimes but they told me NOT to apply ED if I was interested in other schools or wanted to compare aid. That was a really bad "sell"."</p>

<p>Response: For some reason, CMU doens't do a good job at selling itself. Their attitude towards me and towards others that I know were, " We are CMU. If you don't like our tuition, go elsewhere. We have plenty of kids willing to pay full freight."</p>

<p>Some posts have noted that CMU doesn't give a lot of merit aid, which is true. However, they have been known to match scholarship offers given by "comparable" schools. We met a girl who was from Ohio and attended CMU's school of Design. CMU came close to matching the tuition that she would have paid had she attended University of Cincinnati's school of Design, Art and Architecture and Planning as an in-state student!</p>

<p>Coltrane notes, "Again, I don't agree with your debt scenario. I've spoken with many of my parents' friends who came out of graduate school with 100k+ worth of debt and they all said they would do it again in an instant"</p>

<p>Response: This is NOT what I have seen from articles in our local newspaper or what I have seen on television. Most kids who have very high debt upon graduation regret it! Most financial planners who were interviewed in a TV program that I was watching did not recommend taking on college debt in excess of $50,000. In fact, the Washington Post did a recent story on college debt noting that despite what colleges say, "college debt should not be considered good debt." The Post article strongly encouraged students to not attend schools where they would have an enormous amount of debt upon graduation, especially if they go into a major that doesn't pay very well.</p>

<p>Finally, student loan interest may not be deductible. If you end up earning over roughly $50,000 of modified Adjusted gross income as a single taxpayer, your deduction for any student loan intrest gets phased out. I think it completely phases out at $65,000 of Modified AGI. I should note that If you are married, you do get roughly double the income limits for the phas outs. Thus, if you have a high amount of debt and can't even deduct the student loan interest, you will have a tough life paying it off unless you earn a LOT of money.</p>

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<p>This is basically he said/she said now. For every one of your stories I can give multiple stories of happy students (my peers) who have gotten great aid and are now enjoying their education and job network. Several of my friends have gotten internships at Wall St. companies which are amazing for even the best b schools (Wharton, Stern, etc). </p>

<p>My comp sci TA told me that all the Microsoft interns went to Bill Gates' house and CMU was the 2nd most represented school AFTER Berkeley (which is MULTIPLE times bigger than CMU's SCS). CMU therefore was the #1 most represented school per student at Microsoft. PS: She's getting around 80k and doesn't even seem excited as she claims it was "average" compared to her peers who (not only from SCS) have all been managed to land great jobs. </p>

<p>Taxguy: Have you ever thought of working for an insurance company because you do quite a good job scaring people out of risks. The truth is: the value of an education is INVALUABLE in contemporary America and this fact will be even more true in the future. With all the cheap labor nowadays and increased global trade, the elite colleges are being catapulted into the front and a college degree is worth more than ever before. A top college degree will be worth its weight in gold in the future and the progress Carnegie Mellon has made just for 2006 should convey that. 100% of INIS grads got job offers and Tepper MBA salaries as well as recruiters increased by insane percentages. We've had an unprecedented number of recruiters coming to our campus with each job fair and donations from multiple private/public corporations are helping build new buildings and infrastructure. </p>

<p>"This is NOT what I have seen from articles in our local newspaper or what I have seen on television. Most kids who have very high debt upon graduation regret it!"</p>

<p>I suggest talking to the alumni of CMU and asking about their experience rather than reading articles that are in no way representative of Carnegie Mellon itself (a school known for job networking and repeatedly ranked at the top if not the best/#1 for job recruitment).</p>

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<p>AcceptedAlready notes,"With all the cheap labor nowadays and increased global trade, the elite colleges are being catapulted into the front and a college degree is worth more than ever before. A top college degree will be worth its weight in gold in the future "</p>

<p>Response: It is interesting that your present your opinions as facts. I am NOT knocking the value of a CMU education or knocking the value of attending a top notch school. Let me be clear about this!</p>

<p>I do, however, doubt the value of attending any college and leaving with debt of almost $70,000-100,000 or more. If someone gets a great scholarship from CMU or elsewhere, I certainly wouldn't fault them for going to that school. HOWEVER, for those kids that get very little in the form of grants or scholarships and don't have rich parents to pay the bill, attending an expensive college, in my opinion and that of many financial planners, is much more questionable. It is also more questionable, in my opinion, to attend an expensive college in order to seek a poorly paying major. This is all that I am saying.</p>

<p>AcceptedAlready, if you feel that I am in error, just reseach what authors have said in articles dealing with large college debt. Research what financial planners are recommending. I am not the only one who feels this way.</p>

<p>In addition, AcceptedAlready notes,"Also the times have changed and a 100k debt is not as much as you think if you are in something like SCS where the avg is 80k or more STARTING"</p>

<p>Response: Just for the record, on $80,000, you will pay about $27,000 in federal and social security taxes as a single individual plus, depending on the state, another $4,500 in state taxes for a total of about $31,500. Admittedly, the state tax can be more or less depending on the state. In addition, with sales tax, mortgage expenses, and other living expenses, a person would be lucky to have $10,000-$15000 left to pay off the college debt. If they have to amortize this debt plus interest, which isn't deductible, it could easily take 8-10 years to pay this off. This is also assuming that the students starts out at $80,000. If they start out at a much lower salary, the amortization could take as much as 12-15 years. This is one heck of a long time for a kid to pledge their "left over" earning potential, which is wny I REALLY don't like college debt.</p>

<p>Also for the record, CMU tuition is $34,000 per year. Room, board and books can easly amount to a total of $46,000+, not counting cost of living. Having almost $200,000 of undergraduate college debt is, in my opinion, almost indefensible financially. This amount of debt PLUS interest could be backbreaking for the poor kids starting out in the world.</p>

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<p>My opinions are actually the opinions of top analysts, economists, and Bill Gates himself. The value of a college degree is worth a lot more today than in the past. Your theories on debt shows that you do not understand CMU nor company policies that hire from CMU. Most kids from non-liberal arts majors have no problem paying off their debt thanks to the help of the sub loans and the companies that help them. Come to a BOC fair and listen to IBM Consulting, Duestche Bank, JP Morgan, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs or Merill Lynch talk about how they help their employees and you'll understand. By the way, all of these companies were "mode" companies for the Tepper Business School either for the 2005 or 2006 graduating class. </p>

<p>But I do agree if you are seriously taking 200k of debt you should look at other options. I don't know any of my peers who are taking such a debt (non-international). </p>

<p>Anyways, you are right in the case that it depends on HOW MUCH debt you are taking but I believe you are exaggerating the situation a bit too much. Go talk to the CMU kids on Wall St. and ask how they are doing in paying off their bills. Many even get free trips to top MBA schools courtesy of their respective corporations. </p>

<p>CMU's tuition is not far off from other top elite's and when CMU is consistently ranked #1 or among the best for job recruitment and job networking (and is rising and improving) I can think of no reason why one would single out CMU. Either blame all the top privates or none. At least CMU gives SOME aid to waitlistees while many top privates do not. At least CMU actually has a peer matching aid system (even though it isn't perfect) while other top privates don't.</p>

<p>To reiterate: Other top privates have even less aid options than CMU, are not consistently ranked "Hottest College for a Job" (or other job rankings), are not rising nor improving as fast, and do not have mode companies that are primarily the best Wall St. companies.</p>

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<p>It's easy to affirm that an elite education is worth massive debt when you are not the one who has that debt. I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, AcceptedAlready chose CMU in part because he got substantial financial aid and/or comes from a pretty wealthy family. In any case, debt will not be a problem for him personally. If this is true, how can you advise others of the value of a very expensive education? It may be difficult to understand, but things look different from the other side of the tracks. Some of us are working without a net here! ;)</p>

<p>PS - This applies to other pricey private colleges, I am sure. I am not trying to detract from the excellence of CMU, but am trying to highlight that educational value is a relative thing. It's easy to say it's worth it when you will never have to deal with the consequences of your choice.</p>

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<p>As a westerm Pennsylvanian, I would like to add my two cents to the discussion.</p>

<p>By Pittsburgh standards, CMU probably has the second best looking campus in the city. Chatham's is better looking, but it is a very small school localed on what was once a millionaire's estate. Compared to Pitt, Duquesne or Carlow, the CMU campus look like a movie set.</p>

<p>Yes, there are a number of restaurants located in the Forbes Avenue/Craig Street area. These restaurants range from take out Chinese to very fine dining to bar food. There are more restaurants to the west along Forbes and Fifth Avenue and to the east along Forbes and Murray Avenues.</p>

<p>CMU has a weird relationship with the city. CMU alumni can be found in numerous laboratories and research facilities across the region. CMU faculty are always interviewed in the media, explaining the latest advances in science and technology.</p>

<p>However, CMU students arent connected to the city the way Pitt and Duquesne students are...or for that matter, Chatham and Carlow students are. A disproportionate number of CMU come from outside of the region and have little or no connection to western Pennsylvania. Often, CMU students give the impression that they are snobs, looking down on the locals and counting the days until they can leave the 'Burg.</p>

<p>(Recently, I was crossing the parking lot near the CMU fraternity complex, I counted ten or 12 out of state license plates)</p>

<p>Local students often complain that English isn't the first or second language of their roommates.</p>

<p>BTW, what are the fraternity and sorority houses like at CMU? Just wonderin'</p>

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<p>"Local students often complain that English isn't the first or second language of their roommates."</p>

<p>haha, 'complain' ... I think that would be so cool!
(but then, I'm weird)</p>

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<p>They're trying to keep more CMU grads in Pittsburgh. Having Intel, Google nearby could help, also having a new young mayor might. </p>

<p>At least in our case, S liked Pgh just fine and I don't think he would have been disappointed in staying there for a job. But the fact most are from outside western PA (we're from NJ), plus CMU has strong national recruiting, leads to the exodus. My S and most his CMU grad friends are in Manhattan, only one stayed in Pgh but he was from an hour away. S remains a die-hard Steelers fan.</p>

<p>Q about fraternities....he lived in one for 3 years, had overall very positive experience...these will be his lifelong friends. Physically it was no bonus, plain square brick box externally, generally on the gross/dirty side (as is S!) my complaint was it could have been a fire hazard. Each frat has its own personality of course, but like anywhere there's significant drinking and partying. The grand plan is for CMU to raze most of them, relocate them, and build a significant building on the corner of Forbes and Morewood. S told me the sororities are nicer and cleaner (surprise).</p>

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<p>I'd like to add my two cents, if I may, on the issue of food at CMU. I ate CMU food basically everyday for over 4 years, in virtually all on-campus dining location. Surprisingly though, contrary to what appears to be the prevalent opinion here, I didn't find CMU food "inedible". In fact, a few locations like Schatz actually offer what I would describe as "gourmet menus" as opposed to regular cafeteria food (this week's menu according to the Dining Services website includes for example grilled lemon pepper salmon and shrimp and scallops with lobster sauce). I don't want to sound snobbish (as Khipper accused us of being), but I guess the problem is that many people who prefer "plain American food" might dislike CMU menus because of their generally more internationally-oriented flavor.</p>

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<p>The food isnt bad at all. Of course there isnt a huge variety, theres enough options to keep yourself busy for a loong time. And if you have a craving for something different, you can always get a (generally) cheap meal at Squirrel Hill.</p>