The difficulty for tutors is that US exams don’t stretch kids as much as UK exams. So it is harder to find the extreme long tail candidates that they are looking for. For example my son has 800 on SAT 2 math, 790 on the math part of his SAT, 5 in AP Calc. But he is not remotely close to the standard required to do math at Oxbridge (he applied for PPE and didn’t get an offer).
The MAT and interview go further, the STEP much further. But if you don’t do the STEP then some external validation like AIME is helpful to the tutors in a tiebreaker situation, because you can only do so much in an interview (though that’s still very testing). Effectively my college says IMO qualification is an automatic admit for math, and that would likely be true even for a candidate that got a C in say English or Spanish.
It’s perfectly OK to apply when you won’t be taking the APs until June - it just means that any offer would be conditional on your getting scores of 5 in them, so you would need a backup offer just in case you don’t make it.
To @collegemom3717’s point about loving your subject, this is definitely what you need to convey in the application process. In college you certainly have to like it enough to be motivated to work for 3 years on just that (unlike in the US) and not to despair when it’s really hard.
But there’s also something of an attitude in the U.K. that the students who get the most respect are those for whom it’s all easy, and can glide effortlessly through life (think Boris Johnson). That can make it harder if you struggle (we used to refer to those who were working all the time as NARGs - which is an acronym of Not A Real Gentleman). You don’t boast about how much of a firehose the work is (that would be so American!).
And there are a lot of other things to enjoy so you may feel bad if you have too much work to do (I spent lots of time rowing for example, which is the only truly serious college level sport with daily practices - I actually figured out the key proof for my PhD while rowing at Henley). Certainly the term before finals when I had to revise really hard and do very little else (I gave up rowing that term) was the most stressful and least enjoyable period of my time there. I couldn’t have spent three years doing that.
As @collegemom3717 said, my son is currently a Maths & CS fresher at Worcester, so happy to answer any questions you might have. At the time he submitted his UCAS, he had passed all of the standardized test “hurdles”. He had a 35 ACT, an 800 on Math 2/Physics and 5s on Comp Sci A, BC and Physics C (both). Although the offer he received was technically conditional on meeting those requirements, he sent in score reports and his offer went unconditional by 1/31. His only senior year APs were micro/macro and they never asked about those.
I would expect that an offer would be conditional on those three AP scores (BC, Physics C & Comp Sci if you can take one). They really are the most important ones for the Maths&CS program.
In his visa paperwork, Oxford listed his ACT scores and his CompSci, BC and Physics C-Mechanics scores as his “academic qualifications”.
Practicing logic problems will also be helpful for you. For his CS interview, he was given a series of logic problems the night before that he needed to complete. He then reviewed those solutions with the interviewing tutors as well as answering questions live.
A strong score on the MAT is the best thing that you can do to help your chances of shortlisting/offer. But it’s not everything. I was surprised to see comments over on the student room that there were applicants this year who crushed the MAT (85+) but didn’t get offers because their interview scores were low.
That happens across subjects. The interview has elements that are like a tutorial (supervision, in Cambridge-speak). The format really does not suit everybody- and it’s not just a matter of how smart you are. Sometimes it is learning style, sometimes it is temperament or personality (more than one tutor has told me of applicants who were ‘unteachable’ through the tutorial format). The tutors work hard in interviews to make sure that it’s not shyness or anxiety that get in the way though.
@HazeGrey
You said that your son had already sent his scores at the beginning of senior year, meaning that BC, Physics C, and CompSci had been his main AP exams taken through junior year. What changed his application from conditional to unconditional if he was expected to not take any AP exams in senior year? Also, is there a noticeable disadvantage to applying internationally, or are the chances similar to those of a domestic applicant?
He noted all of his complete test scores on his UCAS as you are supposed to. His offer letter contained the generic “32 or better ACT and 3 AP 5s in relevant courses “ conditions. He emailed the admissions officer at his college and said he had met the conditions already. They requested that he send formal score reports. He ordered them immediately and once the college received them, he went unconditional.
We did not see any disadvantage to being a US applicant. He had the benefit of having his LOR written by one of his HS math teachers who is an Oxford grad. I’m sure that helped. Of the four Maths & CS students accepted at Worcester last year, one was English, one American, one Czech and one Romanian.
Would a letter of recommendation from a local teacher who has not graduated from an esteemed university be detrimental? Also, if I were to take courses in relevant subjects at a local community college, would it be beneficial to include that in the personal statement? I was reading some example personal statements, and many of them mention various extracurriculars activities, such as horse riding, which are not related to their fields in any way. These would have no impact on the application, correct? Also, did your son have any major accomplishments in mathematics/computer science in high school?
I am confident on my abilities to perform on tests, such as the MAT, but I am unsure about the “experiences” I would need for the personal statement. Essentially, I enjoy studying these subjects and challenging myself with math contest problems, but other than a few local math tournaments, I don’t have much to show for it.
That must be a top prep school, with a teacher who went to Oxford. I don’t think they would expect a recommendation from a teacher from a top school, because it is rare for teachers to have gone to one.
Here’s the thing, @hopefullywecan: what will matter most is you & math. The vast majority of applicants do not have Oxford grads to write their LoRs. Many students do not have the resources to do competitions. Do some homework on writing a Personal Statement (there is a lot of info on the Oxford site). There is comparable info for writing the LoR- help your teacher by getting that info to them. Taking classes at a local CC is worth mentioning- it is appropriate for it to be in your LoR and/or PS.
@hopefullywecan Not off the charts stuff. He was on our state’s ARML team for three years and qualified for the ACSL all star competition. He really focused on talking about his love of math from a young age, how he participated in competitive math from middle school, his computer science experience. He is also a strong chess player so he talked about that some and how it fit with math/logic thinking. He also talked about why he wanted a focused degree program like Oxford’s.
Saying you want the specialized approach is great for the essay. If it is a structured combined program like PPE, say that you want it because programs like that are not available in the US. They want some BS about how dedicated you are to the subject, so that works well for a US applicant.
It sounds like a high ranked prep school, and that probably helps with Oxbridge if you are a strong candidate otherwise.
I looked at the STEPs past papers. I could do well on the STEPs 1s, but there are some hard subquestions to each question that I generally couldn’t get. I am totally blown away by the Step 2 and 3 papers, but I could probably get some subquestions if I prepared. I tutor the AP Calculus and Math SAT II exams. The STEPS test your ability to do proofs for theoretical math, a PhD, academic research etc.
I have heard some people say that Cambridge is better at the natural sciences than Oxford. However, both are almost on par with each other, right? Also, @HazeGrey, does your son plan to return to the U.S. or does he plan to stay in the U.K.? I probably will return to the U.S. if I go to the U.K. for undergraduate, and is that a common decision among international applicants?
It is a common decision to return to your home country, not least b/c getting a work visa is not easy now, and is unlikely to be easier after Brexit.
The Ox for humanities / Cam for nat sci meme is seriously out of date, and the two are usually within 1-2 ranks of each other across the board; which is higher than the other is anymore down to very specific subjects or subject areas.
Natural science is a combined course. Applicants would typically have A levels in two of the three sciences, but not necessarily all three. At Oxford you do single subject Physics, Chemistry etc.
For math I’d say Cambridge is better at the absolute top of the heap (Trinity say the “majority” of British IMO participants attend there, partly because they host the prep camp, so can persuade them to apply).
For a more average (normal) mathmo, I don’t think you’d notice much difference, either would be very tough. For sciences you get some top students wanting the combined course, others wanting to specialize, so choices between Oxford and Cambridge vary.
I need to look at some STEP papers and see if I still remember how to do them Oxford’s MAT seemed relatively straightforward when I glanced at a sample paper. You have to remember that a decent candidate is only expected to be able to do a few of the questions, just like in the Tripos exams if you get in. When I was there, to get a first you needed to get 13 alphas (almost perfect answers) in total across 4 three hour papers. To get a second, you needed 7 alphas and to get a third you needed 3 alphas. The top student (Senior Wrangler, of which Singapore’s PM is one) would get 35+ alphas.
@hopefullywecan Too early to tell on that front. He’s not a dual citizen but his mother is English and we have family there, so I think both choices are real options. My guess is that it will come down to job opportunities post graduation.
A fun anecdote I remember is that it was traditional for lecturers to not provide solutions for problem sets. So supervisors (often grad students) had to work out the answers for themselves. On several occasions where we undergrads couldn’t do a particular problem, the grad student supervisor couldn’t solve it either.
Have you taken a look at the STEP past papers? They don’t seem that straight forward. I can’t do much on the STEP 2 and 3. Only about 1400 students a year sit for them.
Oxford’s MAT seemed relatively straightforward when I glanced at a sample paper. You have to remember that a decent candidate is only expected to be able to do a few of the questions, just like in the Tripos exams if you get in. When I was there, to get a first you needed to get 13 alphas (almost perfect answers) in total across 4 three hour papers. To get a second, you needed 7 alphas and to get a third you needed 3 alphas. The top student (Senior Wrangler, of which Singapore’s PM is one) would get 35+ alphas.