Oxford reapplicant - Should I delete AP scores?

Student Lounge International Students
1

I am a year 1 university student at another college intending to re-apply for first-year entry at Oxford Law.

Due to severe sickness during AP week (combined with senioritis and lack of conditional offers), I didn’t do so well on some of my APs—specifically, I got 4s on Literature, US Gov, Micro, and Statistics. I’m on the edge about whether or not to cancel these AP scores.

I know they aren’t that bad, but since Oxford generally wants 5s I’m worried they will undermine my previous scores, i.e. I might be better off without these scores of 4. I’m particularly concerned about Lit and US Gov because they are both lower than Lang and Comp Gov (both of which are very relevant to law).

My 5s are in Lang, Calc BC, Macro, CS A, Chinese, ENV, Comp Gov.

(Before anyone asks, I know Oxford requires all scores, but I have confirmed that cancelling scores is allowed.)

2

“I know Oxford requires all scores, but I have confirmed that cancelling scores is allowed.”

Are you sure that you asked the correct question? Cancelling scores before you find out the result is one thing (and may well be allowed). But trying to hide results you already have is another. Better to be honest, because it could get very embarrassing if you were asked to explain the details during your interview.

3

Does Oxford allow you to apply as a first year even though you are in college currently? Reapply as in Oxford already rejected you on your first go round? What country are you a citizen of? Where is your current college?

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@Twoin18 I am not using the AP score withholding service to “hide” the scores. I am considering permanently deleting them from my record, and they will never be seen again. AP allows cancelling at any time. The requirement to cancel before June 15 applies only to the score-report university listed on the answer sheet. I have confirmation from Oxford in no uncertain terms that I don’t have to declare scores that can no longer be officially reported, even if I initiated the deletion.

@Sybylla Yep, I was rejected post-shortlist when I was a senior. I wish I could transfer, but Oxford only allows first-year entry for students who would be transfers in the US. It doesn’t really matter where my current college is because no transfers are allowed regardless.

5

not your question, but if you were rejected with achieved scores and post-interview, what do you think will be different this time?

6

Right, you were rejected out of high school but you think you will be accepted as a college kid? If transfers are not allowed, period, are you being allowed to apply as a first year regardless of your year in another unmentionable university? What does Oxford call you if you drop out of one university to apply there but not as a transfer? I assume you are in a US university that is unmentionable. What is better on your application now, than then?
And yeah, you are looking to hide your very nice AP scores. There is no way that the 4s will be the thing that has you rejected. If you delete the scores, it appears that you took the courses and not the tests, or you deleted the scores. Selective UK scores have a good understanding of APs.

7

So when you applied your aenior year you had predicted scores. They know you took these tests. If you delete them, might they not think they are worse than 4?

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“Right, you were rejected out of high school but you think you will be accepted as a college kid? If transfers are not allowed, period, are you being allowed to apply as a first year regardless of your year in another unmentionable university? What does Oxford call you if you drop out of one university to apply there but not as a transfer?”

This is too harsh. People do reapply to Oxbridge and get in when they didn’t get an offer the previous year. But usually because their record looks better a year later - remember that UK students don’t know their A level results until after high school is over. Oxford also don’t mind people taking a year off, whether its to do more study or to work or travel is irrelevant, indeed it could help to have studied something relevant for another year, given that US APs don’t have the same depth as A levels (hence foundation years). What they don’t want to do is steal people from other UK universities, but that isn’t relevant to you.

But the problems are:
a) OPs record from high school doesn’t look better than it did before. What will your reference say about your senior year of high school? (I think it would probably be better for your reference to explain the AP scores by saying you were ill than to cancel them and have it come up in an interview)
b) what school are you attending now? If its a top 40 US school then that might count in your favor a little, a top 20 school very likely would (though then many would ask why bother trying to transfer). But you haven’t indicated that is the case and I assume that as a US undergrad you won’t be doing anything much in terms of courses that are relevant to law?
c) a UK law degree is designed for practice in the UK. If you don’t have the right to work there, they will probably wonder why you want to do that course. Did you have a convincing explanation at interview last year?
d) they may have access to last year’s application if you are applying for the same course (though I assume you have picked a different college?). Why not apply to Cambridge instead?

9

According to my admission feedback last year, the main issue was doing poorly on the interview (they gave me specific scores. I’m applying to see if I can get another shot an interviewing and because there’s not much to lose. I am studying a law program in a non-US/UK school.

@collegemom3717 Interview performance. My understanding is that they place great importance on the interview. In the rejection feedback, they gave me my interview score which was poor.

@Sybylla I get your point, but UK colleges do not ask for transcripts during the application process, so they have . Basically, transfer students are allowed but transferring credits is not. Of course, I might be evaluated on a higher standard as a re-applicant, but that is not my concern as I can’t do anything about it.

@VickiSoCal @Twoin18 Good point that they might review last year’s application. I understand my high school record isn’t much different from last year, especially if I delete my scores. However, I have some additional law-related accomplishments to write about. But more importantly, I think the deciding factor for last year’s rejection was poor interview performance, which I think I will be able to do better on this time. I’m now considering whether Cambridge might be a better option, thanks for the suggestion! Also, I am British by nationality so it’s alright, although I chose my current university for financial reasons.

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Anyway, my main issue is still determining whether I would be better off with or without the scores, regardless of whether I choose Oxford or Cambridge.

11

truerunner, I didn’t realize UCAS allowed students to cancel AP scores, but putting that issue side, my son did just what you are proposing. He didn’t receive an offer after the first Oxford interview, then enrolled at another university, then reapplied (TSA again, shortlisted again)… and the second time was the charm. He just started his second year at Oxford.

His situation was a bit different in that he had actually planned to study at UCL. (He got offers from two programs at U of Edinburgh, one at King’s and one at UCL, in addition to the Oxford rejection.) After his senior year in high school, he attended a summer “boot camp” for students with ADHD who were either already attending university or just about to start… and he met a kid who had crapped out in his first year at King’s… and that kid warned that London had been a pretty challenging place to start his university life. He advised my son to start at an American university first-- to learn how to live independently, figure out what support services were needed, learn how to manage time on his own (etc.), without having to simultaneously navigate a different culture (that expects more autonomy from university students ) while adjusting to a huge and somewhat overwhelming city, living in accommodations that are quite different from the American dorm experience. We had put down a deposit for UCSB, anyway-- just in case, since my son had already been unsure if he was ready for London straightaway, and we also thought he could use more academic preparation in science for his degree in psychology, especially since he may decide to attend medical school in the future and will need science and math credits from an American university. He then proceeded to get permission from UCL to defer a year, but unfortunately (ultimately, fortunately!), something went awry, and the admissions people at UCL thought he was enrolling instead of deferring. When he started getting email welcoming him to UCL, at first he thought it was just a mistake… until he eventually got a welcoming FB message from the head of the student psychology society! He tried to get it sorted out… and thought he had been successful… but it turns out deferring admissions also involves UCAS, and he had missed the UCAS deadline for deferring, so he had to reapply through UCAS for the next cycle!

My son didn’t find out he had to reapply for UCL until about a week before the Oxford deadline. Like you, he had previously requested feedback from his Oxford interviewers, and they said his TSA score, PS, reference, academic preparation, interest in the subject and non-tutorial parts of the interviews were strong, but he was weak on the tutorial part. They also said it could be worth reapplying, but it would be better to apply to a different college. Since he now had to go through another UCAS application cycle anyway, he decided to give his dream school another shot, but he had to hurry to update his PS (which included briefly explaining that a year at an American university would better prepare him academically for his course in the UK), get his referee to update her reference (she was on sabbatical in Mexico!) and find somewhere to take the TSA. When he was again shortlisted, the interview process went much more smoothly. This time around, he had already finished his quarter (and finals) at UCSB, whereas the previous year, he had to leave for interviews rights when his first semester (of senior HS year) finals were starting… and some teachers were not very happy (or accommodating). He had to finish final assignments and work on group final projects and study for finals while in Oxford for the interviews, but students being interviewed weren’t allowed internet access at the college where he was staying… and his phone wasn’t working there, either! So, he had to keep rushing over to my hotel for the Wi-Fi, which made the whole situation even more stressful than the usual (inherently stressful) situation. (Plus, his second interview was delayed, and his short-acting ADHD medication had fizzled out by the time of the interview-- and he hadn’t brought any extra with him!) Again, things went much more smoothly the second time, and he got an offer!

If you are allowed to cancel AP scores… it appears you already have 6 fives? Law doesn’t have particular subject requirements, except to show you can do well in a course with essays (like AP Lang) and to to demonstrate some proficiency in math, which you have also done, so it seems you are more than meeting the requirements with the 6 fives. If you think not having the AP Lit score is a disadvantage, you could still take an SAT Subject exam in Lit while at your university (I think Oxford wants a score of 720 or above), and get your referee to make a (favorable!) prediction. You can look at the schedule, but there is an SAT Lit exam in December and a couple more in the spring, I think. The five in AP Lang is probably more valuable, though… and sufficient.

You might also want to look online for Oxford interview prep. It’s possible to find tutors who studied law at Oxford who can give you interview pointers, do a mock tutorial with you (by Skype or in-person in London, if you have any time before interviews)… and give you feedback.

Good luck!

12

If your denial was because of a poor interview, why do you think canceling scores will help? It seems to me that you are looking at the wrong thing. Why not find someone to help you practice for the interview? That will be a better use of your time and energy.

13

I’ve cut and pasted (below) info regarding applications for Oxford and Cambridge from students currently attending other universities. Oxford says your university needs to agree to “release” you, but my son didn’t have to obtain that agreement, and Oxford didn’t ask for “evidence” of his university grades, either, so i don’t know if this is just a requirement for UK students… or if it depends on the college… or course? I don’t see how a first year student could already have a referee at their new university, as Oxford recommends, and my son just used his previous high school referee. Oxford seems more open to applications from students already studying at other universities than Cambridge does…

https://uni-of-oxford.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/547

“Can I apply for an undergraduate degree course if I am already studying at another university?
Published 29/07/2011 10.36 AM   |    Updated 12/07/2018 12.12 PM

Oxford does accept applications from students who are currently studying at another university. Your full academic record would be taken in to account in your application, including your A-levels (or other equivalent qualifications) and study at university level, so we would need evidence of your performance on your university course. We would expect you to be performing at a high 2.1 or first class level (a US GPA of 3.7-4.0). Please note that for our Medicine course, applications will not be considered from people already studying Medicine elsewhere who wish to apply to study the course from Year 1.

Please be aware that you would need to inform your current institution of this application and they would have to agree to “release” you. If possible, your reference should come from one of the academic staff at your current university.”

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/entrance-requirements/students-at-other-uk-universities

“The Cambridge Colleges will only, as a matter of principle, consider applications to Cambridge from students enrolled on degree courses at other UK universities in very exceptional circumstances.

Any application to study at Cambridge would need strong support from your course director or other academic tutor at your current university. A reference/letter of recommendation from that person to the Cambridge College would be required before a Cambridge College could consider an application, and such applications would still be subject to the same academic assessment as any other application to the University.

Please contact a College admissions office for advice.”