<p>calmom: The fact that Oxford didn’t confer degrees to women until 1920 has nothing to do with the relations between the University and the (formerly) women only colleges. In fact, it had no effect whatsoever on the students education that their college was an institution with full college status or was an “approved society”. Nevertheless you’re missing the point, that is, a Barnard degree is apparently not equal to a Columbia degree. The same, however, doesn’t apply to the Oxford colleges, as nobody cares with your college affiliation upon graduation.</p>
<p>There is no such thing as a “Barnard degree”.</p>
<p>All students who graduate from Barnard received degrees from Columbia University. </p>
<p>Barnard itself does not issue diplomas. Nor does any other college or school under the Columbia umbrella.</p>
<p>(The part about the history of the various Oxford college was simply are response to your demonstrably false statement that " all the Oxbridge colleges were founded to be integral parts of the university, which is not the case with Barnard.". The point is that 5 of the colleges at Oxford functioned essentially as shadow institutions for several decades, and then weren’t granted full participatory status for another 40 years; whereas Barnard has operate under the Columbia aegis from the time of its founding. Also, given the highly individualistic nature of an Oxford education, I’m not sure what you mean by “integral” part of the university.)</p>
<p>Unfortunately, none of this helps the OP. I’m just tired of people who don’t have a clue of the relationship between Barnard & Columbia trolling these forums. Obviously the Oxford model is very different than what is offered at Columbia & Barnard, but any intelligent woman who has been accepted to both would want to focus on the actual programs and not the labels on the degree.</p>
<p>One point that stands out to me is that the Oxford program, while sounding very exciting and fantastic, is VERY specific to a single, very focused area of study. And that is great if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is what you want to do for the rest of your life.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, I am the mother of a student who began college with the absolute certainty that she wanted to be a dancer in some form or fashion (and she had prepared for that for pretty much her entire life). She also began her college career excited to learn all she could with a well-rounded and challenging Liberal Arts education, and soon changed to neuroscience. So, obviously, I think it’s a good idea to place yourself in a situation where you can explore all kinds of options as an undergrad. Graduate school, then, is left for the more in-depth study…</p>
<p>Be as it may, then please answer the ultimate question: is a CV with “Barnard College, Columbia University” equal to a CV with simply “Columbia University” on it. Again, I have nothing against Barnard, but for me at least it seems that it is a kind of backdoor to a Columbia degree. </p>
<p>Of course, Columbia College and Barnard College are separate institutions; nonetheless the complexity characteristic of such relationship should not be allowed to obscure the fact that they’re getting the same degrees, whilst one is significantly harder to get into. I originally stated that Oxford and Columbia can be seen as equal institutions, but I have serious doubts that anyone would see a Barnard education equal to that of Columbia College. From the OPs point of view, this is something that should be taken into consideration.</p>
<p>(BTW, despite the individualistic nature of the Oxford colleges, there are indeed serious limitations of their freedom. And yes, the women only colleges founded to be part of the University, no matter how inferior their role was compared to that of the ancient colleges. Yes, they were not granted full college status for some time, but the effects of such things on student life were by definition ephemeral.)</p>
<p>At this point you are just being argumentative and it is counter productive to the original question posed in the thread. </p>
<p>Regarding, your statement below. By their actions, the leaders of Columbia University apparently view them as sufficiently similar to one another since they are confering Columbia University diplomas on both. Are you presuming to know more about higher education, and specifically about the relative rigor of various Columbia University affliliated colleges, than them?</p>
<p>“I have serious doubts that anyone would see a Barnard education equal to that of Columbia College.”</p>
<p>Regarding the original question at hand, my family lived in Europe for several years and my son seriously considered going to school in the UK/Ireland. With that experience in mind, I would say the Oxford option is a very high reward opportunity but comes with substantial risks.
Every first year college student goes through significant adjustment, which are challenging. Add to this the even greater challenges of living outside of your home country and culture. Further is the difficulty changing areas of study/majors associated with the UK system (admittedly I have no knowledge of Oxford in this area). You need to think very carefully and realistically about these potential challenges.
On the positive side, schooling at Oxford and the opportunities it would afford you to not only travel in Europe, but truly experience European culture is something most Americans can only dream about. This would be an enriching experience that would last a lifetime.
No matter your decision, you should be very proud to have such options before you now. You have done well to this point; I would suspect it will continue.</p>
<p>Doesn’t Oxford make you specialize a bit early? —so you’d basically be having an American grad school experience while in undergrad. Are you completely sure that you want to major in that? Do you want to be in a different country? What do you plan to do with your degree? Is cost a factor for you? </p>
<p>Congrats on Oxford!!! btw and congrats on Barnard if you get in. Both great choices. It is def up to. I am personally leaning towards Oxford just becuase I am all about experiencing a different culture while studying at one of THE most prestigious school in the world.
it is a personal decision though and I am sure you will not regret either choice. good luck girlie</p>
<p>and lol, there’s always a fight about this barnard vs columbia thing. who cares</p>
I think that’s overstating the significance of the choice for someone following an arts or humanities track. The OP wants to study modern languages. An undergraduate degree from Oxford, coupled with acquired fluency in one or more languages, could be the foundation for any number of careers or future courses of graduate study. She is not committing to a lifelong career; she would simply be committing to an intensive focus for her undergraduate years. The Oxford program includes a full year abroad in a country where the chosen language is spoken; that year can be study abroad but it can also be working abroad, so is is probably a broadening (rather than narrowly focused) opportunity. </p>
<p>But the point is that becoming bilingual or multilingual is not a career choice – it is acquisition of a skill that would be an asset in just about any career path she chooses down the line. It’s potentially a very good foundation for further studies in a wide range of areas.</p>
it’s a he well, he actually has a dorm and all. he mostly lived there initially. afterwards he started commuting though (living with relatives in the city). I believe that he still had the dorm, but just didn’t use it. I could be wrong though</p>
<p>Many people who are “in the know,” including graduates of both, consider Barnard to offer an overall stronger education. That may be a function of factors such as stronger involvement of Barnard’s faculty with student advising, or Barnard’s requirement of senior thesis work in most majors. Columbia College student often voice complaints similar to students at large research universities; for example, some of my daughter’s courses at Columbia were taught by TA’s, whereas all of her classes at Barnard were taught by professors. Basically, if you’ve actually spent time on campus, you see a different picture.</p>
<p>I’m not just offering my opinion – you can see this showing up in student surveys, on web sites such as “students review.com” (Barnard gets a B+; Columbia gets a B-) The surveys there show that Barnard students tend to to be somewhat more satisfied with their experience and rank their school higher on factors such as “Education Quality” and “Faculty Accessibility” They perceive their coursework to be more challenging and a higher percentage are happy with their choice of college. </p>
<p>I personally think that’s mostly a LAC vs. research university difference, but that goes right to the heart of what the OP needs to be thinking about: the actual educational experience, not some ranking or label.</p>
<p>Don’t take any chances with Barnard. Go to Oxford - great architecture, fantastic name recognition, long history of scholarship, etc. Barnard is nothing other than a poorly endowed LAC, which depends on Columbia for support. As a US liberal arts college Barnard is no Amherst. It’s not even Wellesley!</p>
<p>Not true. Barnard has the resources of Columbia and Barnard. I had a child at Williams and a child at Barnard, and I positively state that the Barnard child’s education was not a hair’s breath weaker or less regarded than the Williams’ child. They are not in grad school at the same university, albeit in different fields, earning almost identical grades and enjoying great success to their preparation for grad study.</p>
<p>Oxford does have an immediate impressive effect on others that Barnard doesn’t have. I’m certainly not going to argue that point.</p>
<p>I think the most telling information is that the OP stated that she did not like NYC. In that case, go to Oxford. Case closed.</p>
<p>The way you phrase the question certainly makes it difficult to advise… ‘excited and honored’ but ‘in love with Barnard.’</p>
<p>Maybe one idea is to prepare the decision as much as you can now, but then to wait to see how you really feel once the Barnard decision is in (before giving Oxford their final answer). It rather seems that is what you are doing, so good plan!!</p>
<p>If I can just say something about the question ‘small class size’ or ‘one-on-one.’ I did undergrad at Oxford and then went back (after a break of a few years) to do a year’s graduate study. My experience at Oxford and at other institutions is that nothing beats the Oxford tutorial system, for really testing your ideas. However, sometimes you can have a bad experience if a tutor is really disinterested. Small size classes can be excellent to, but it depends (as in fact it does in tutorials) whether people are engaged. In my experience, there is nowhere to hide in Oxford tutorials, so it brings out the best - even if there are a couple of participants.</p>
<p>Lastly, the composition of Oxford is such that now 2/3 graduate students are from outside the UK. It’s a really international place, with lots of Americans and I never met a miserable American when I was there. Just my personal experience…</p>
<p>best of luck, I’m sure you’ll have a great time at either!</p>
<p>My DD is in her first year at Oxford, and she has never been happier. She has been made very welcome, is in a staircase (dorm) of really nice kids who take good care of each other (and for whom she cooked a full Thanksgiving dinner!), and is involved in lots of activities. She has 1-2 lectures / week, and 2 tutorials (1-on-1 sessions with the tutor (professor); otherwise she works on her own. In the first term (8 weeks), she wrote 11 research papers. The workload is genuinely heavy, and it is a place for the self-motivated. You really want to love your subject- but if you do, Oxford will be as perfect for you as it has been for my DD: she loves being immersed in her subject, and surrounded by other people who share her enthusiasm for learning. The biggest adjustment was getting used to the drinking culture in the UK, the biggest surprise was how much the kids look out for each other. </p>
<p>Her sister has just been accepted ED to Barnard. She didn’t consider going to the UK or Ireland because she doesn’t want to be limited in what she studied: she specifically wants some form of core curriculum and to be able to take a range of classes. </p>
<p>You don’t say it, but I gather that you have an unconditional offer? </p>
<p>When you say you are “in love” with Barnard- what is it that you are in love with in particular?</p>
well, he actually has a dorm and all. he mostly lived there initially. afterwards he started commuting though (living with relatives in the city). I believe that he still had the dorm, but just didn’t use it. I could be wrong though</p>