P/NP and GPA

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>How does getting a P in a class affect your gpa?</p>

2

<p>it doesn't.</p>

3

<p>As shadow2 says -- it doesn't affect your GPA one bit whether you pass or fail. It counts for units alone. Also be aware that you're limited to taking 33% or fewer of your total units P/NP. </p>

<p>Some classes are P/NP only, like DeCals and independent study. Some classes you should not take P/NP, such as major classes and prerequisites (especially if you're thinking of med school).</p>

4

<p>can, or should, you try to take P/NP for as many breadth class as you can?</p>

5

<p>It doesn't affect your Cal GPA. However if you get a NP, and you want to apply to graduate schools, they are likely to calculate a NP as an F (0 units).</p>

6

<p>that would suck sooooooooooooooo bad... (getting an F)</p>

7

<p>Also, if you guys are interested in graduate school I would take as few P/NP as possible. The general consensus is that you can take a max of 2 P/NP classes.</p>

8

<p>Is choosing to take several (maybe 1-2 per semester) freshman/sophomore seminars for P/NP a bad idea if you will be applying to grad school? Also how do grad schools figure in the number of units for each class when calculating your GPA? A 3 unit class counts less towards your GPA than a 4 unit class, right?</p>

9

<p>I would save the P/NP for hard classes outside your major that you want to take, either due to interest or necessity. And yes a 3 unit class counts less than a 4 unit class for graduate school admissions.</p>

10

<p>wait, two p/np TOTAL or two per semester?</p>

11

<p>The seminars obedbattius is talking about are only offered P/NP. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with taking such seminars on a P/NP basis. It will not negatively affect your chances of grad school. How could it?</p>

12

<p>I think he's talking about courses for which you get to CHOOSE P/NP or graded. Even in that case, I find it a difficult statistic to believe unless he means courses the grad school looks at because they have direct bearing on your preparation for the program itself.</p>

13

<p>If the seminars are only P/NP, it's fine. I was referring to the courses in which you choose the grade option , as undecided stated.</p>

<p>And yes, I meant 2 P/NP TOTAL in four years. I am particularly referencing law school (and perhaps medical school admissions, not PhD programs), so no, I don't mean just P/NP in regards to classes in your specific program. I mean 2 P/NP out of EVERY single undergraduate class you take. Adcomms want to see the rigor of your courses and assess your grades. They can't do that if you take a significant amount of P/NP. As I am more familiar with law school admissions, I know that they generally look down on more than 2 P/NP. </p>

<p>UCLA's information regarding medical school admissions: </p>

<p>Academic</a> Planning for Medical School
"The P/NP grade option is not recommended."</p>

<p>Career</a> Center - Law School - Academic Preparation
"Therefore, if you are considering applying to law school, be selective when using the P/NP grading option. Whenever possible, choose courses that engage your interests and take them for letter grades."</p>

14

<p>Hmmm...</p>

<p>Well, I can see a case for that. And honestly, it's better to take classes for a letter grade whenever possible. I just don't think you should let that stop you from taking a class way outside your comfort level and taking it P/NP so you can get the good stuff out of it but not let it distract you from your area of focus.</p>

<p>The context of the P/NP in your links causes me to read it a little differently, though.</p>

<p>In the first, it mentions the P/NP option is not recommended after first detailing that you should make sure you keep track of prerequisites, the requirements for medical school admissions and departmental majors, all of which are cases in which I wouldn't recommend the P/NP option to anyone. Repeat: if it's a prerequisite, a major requirement or something directly related to admission to a graduate program, DO NOT take it P/NP.</p>

<p>In the second, it cautions you from taking classes P/NP because NP is automatically calculated as an F in the LSDAS GPA calculation, and a P isn't factored in at all. It seems to be more about not jeopardizing your GPA with an F (when otherwise P/NP doesn't factor into your GPA at all, regardless of whether you passed or not) or wasting the opportunity to add in another A instead of a P that doesn't offer any grade points.</p>

<p>As always, kids, check with your adviser! And when questions about graduate programs arise, please check with the people in charge at the programs themselves. The boards can tell you about the experiences people have had, but there's no place to approach the admissions office and tell them they rejected you unfairly because a bunch of people on the internet told you what you were doing was fine.</p>

15

<p>I actually did check with the Berkeley career center adviser, and the adviser told me 2 max. Go to the career center and find out for yourself if you don't believe me.</p>

<p>And trust me law school admissions is a different ballgame. Since you don't have a particular pre-law major ALL your grades before your first bachelors count for your LSDAS GPA. And since ALL Your grades count and since GPA is the second most important factor in the application (after the LSAT which is statistically 60-70% of your application), the adcomms want to see rigor and assess you in everything. It's not about saving your GPA. It's about 1) getting a high GPA 2) taking as few P/NP as possible so that they can see you're not lazy.</p>

16

<p>Also, does it even make sense to you that law schools don't care about how many P/NP you take, as long as you keep a high GPA? Really? Is that logical to you? Then everyone might as well take 33% of their units P/NP to maintain a 4.0 and see which schools they get into...</p>

17

<p>Law school and med school are playing a whole different sport from the one I'm in, looking at PhD programs. I don't doubt that it's what you were told, and I don't doubt that it's very sound advice. I just doubt whether it's universally applicable.</p>

<p>PhD programs care so much more about your performance as it relates to them -- what you professors say about how you worked, what you say about the work you want to do, and an example of the kind of work you're capable of a la a writing sample. The GPA is important, but mostly in terms of the courses prepping you for research in the field you're pursuing a degree in. With that kind of focus, I just can't see why they even care that you took a couple classes P/NP.</p>

<p>Edited to add: You don't have to get demeaning. I don't think I'm being naive or dense, here. I'm not suggesting you take every class outside of prerequisites and requirements P/NP, just suggesting that it isn't going to ruin your life if you take a few things P/NP. Your experience and discussion with people in a position to advise says otherwise, and I admit that it's not what I'm focusing on. What more is there to say?</p>

18

<p>In regards to universal applicability, two is a conservative estimate. I don't doubt that people with high LSAT 170+ scores and more than 2 P/NP get into T-14 law schools because the LSAT is still the most important thing. However this is the general guideline. </p>

<p>As for PhD programs, I am not too familiar with them, but yes they probably are a different ballgame. Med and law schools look for more overall curriculum and grades, especially law school since there is no pre-law major. It's also extremely numbers based where your entire application consists of 1) LSAT 2) Cum GPA.</p>

19

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<p>College</a> Policies-Grade Policies</p>