<p>I am trying to help my HS Junior in PA, pick some schools to look at. Most of what I see here is directed to above average - academically cream of the crop - students. What about the strictly average, middle of their class, average SAT students who are involved, hard-working students. The chance of getting merit aid is nil, and - in our case - need-based aid is most likely out of the question (which shocks me - but we didn't qualify for our eldest) Any input on the various State school in PA??</p>
<p>State schools, 2nd and third tier LACS...there are a lot of options.</p>
<p>Understand that an involved, hard-working student can get a great education anywhere. Sit down, think about what you both need to look for in a school (size, location, available majors, culture) and start from there. Princeton Review has a decent search engine for beginning your search. Many have questioned its safety/match/reach identifications, but to just get a beginning list based on some basic criteria, it's pretty good.</p>
<p>I know a few students who chose to attend Millersville and are very happy there ( very reasonable COA). I also know someone at Kutztown who likes it a lot ( I think they are the same price).
Not sure where you are in the state - but depending on the major I hear that West Chester University is pretty good and very reasonable tuition.
Good luck.</p>
<p>Ones I'm familiar with are: Shippensburg, Bloomsburg, West Chester, and Millersville. I believe they are generally about equal in terms of competitiveness. I know happy kids at all of these places. An average kid can get a decent education at these schools if they pick and choose courses carefully.</p>
<p>I know students at Millersville, Kutztown, Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg, Shippensburg, Clarion and Indiana University of PA. and West Chester. (My kids graduated HS 2003 and 2006.) All are fairly happy to very happy, oh and I know one student that decided to stop going to college. He was at Kutztown. Both of my kids applied to Millersville and both were accepted. I think our state schools are great but my kids were able to get pretty good merit aid at out of state private schools and chose them instead. Each of the schools has a slightly different feel to it. The biggest downside is that 90% of the students are also Pennsylvanians, most from within an hour of each of the schools so a little lacking in diversity. I know two students at IUP in western PA. One of them is a freshman in the honors college, that looks like a great deal. In a recent study cited here on the CC board, IUP rated higher then PSU for getting academic value for your money. Cost of each of the state colleges are the same for tuition (I'm pretty sure) but different for room and board.</p>
<p>One school that I looked at with my son was York College. It's a private school with a public school price tag. You might be suprised at merit and financial aid available at some of the private schools, I know I was.</p>
<p>My daughter was very middle of the class, average student with very slightly above average SATs and she got into many east coast schools. She also got significant merit offers at some - the approach I took was looking at the stats of the schools. If you child's SATs are above the 70th percentile for a college, there is a good chance they will get merit aid - especially if they havea solid B average in high school. Of course....my D decided to go to a school that offered her no money. That's always the way - but she absolutely loves it!</p>
<p>I think Temple and Pitt can be good, too, if you want a more urban environment. My daughter has a lot of friends a Pitt, some of whom are finding things less challenging than they had hoped, but there are others who like it a lot. Temple is a mixed bag -- like a lot of places, if you know what you want and don't need a lot of supervision or coddling, you can get an excellent education, but I'm not certain it does a great job motivating the unmotivated. Temple is very, very urban -- great if your kid really wants to be in the city and feel comfortable there, scary if not -- Pitt a lot less so.</p>
<p>Outside the state system, I also know people who have had great experiences at Albright, in Reading. And Franklin & Marshall, a LAC in Lancaster, has a very nice vibe about it, and seems to be attracting more out-of-state students.</p>
<p>I'll second Kathiep's mention of York College. My son is there and aside from the good price tag, I like that since it's private, kids from a little further away go to school there since there's not the out-of-state tuition bump.</p>
<p>No, they don't come from all over, but there's a significant Maryland/New Jersey/Long Island presence.</p>
<p>If the student can handle a rural/very small town environment, consider Juniata College (one of the Colleges that Change Lives). The school seems to do an excellent job of developing solid but not stellar students -- lots of personal attention, undergraduate research opportunities, etc. </p>
<p>downsides:
The school is very small (under 1500 students) and the location, while quite scenic, is somewhat isolated.
The student body is not diverse, either geographically or racially. </p>
<p>But it would be a very good alternative for some, and there is substantial merit money available.</p>
<p>I think F&M and Pitt, and somewhat Temple, are reaches for a truly average grade (B-?), average SAT (1000's?) kid, JHS, if that is indeed the kind of kid the OP is talking about. Six years ago maybe; not now.</p>
<p>I know many excellent students who attended Millersville and West Chester and am quite familiar with Millersville (sister and best friend attended and grew up in Lancaster). </p>
<p>Most of the really average students in my class went to Millersville, Shippensburg, IUP, Kutztown, or Bloomsburg. West Chester is becoming a bit more difficult to get into, so it ranks near the top of the traditional state school system in Pa.</p>
<p>The PA state school system is very affordable and a great option if the student is looking to go into any branch of education or looking to stay in the PA, MD, DE, NJ region. Millersville also has a top-notch meteorology program (go figure...their geology is ok, but not the best, but ok grad school placement).</p>
<p>West Chester is the most urban of the state schools, being right outside of Philly. Most are fairly rural (I recall driving past many Amish farms to get to Shippensburg) and Millersville is most definately a subarban campus.</p>
<p>The campuses tend to be PA-heavy, but are becoming more popular with out of state students. My best friend had many friends who were from the NY-area at Millersville and I know of a bunch of people from Ohio that migrate over towards Slippery Rock (best name ever!). </p>
<p>York College is also a great option for those that need more individualized attention and is the cheapest private school I've ever seen. I had a friend who graduated in my high school class (tech prep/college prep track) who from what I've heard excelled at York.</p>
<p>For the LAC route, Juniata is great and you may want to look into Elizabethtown College. Other LACish colleges to look at would be Susquehanna and Scranton. Franklin and Marshall would be out of reach to the average student.</p>
<p>Another option that hasn't been mentioned is the Penn State system. Though the average high school student in PA can't get into State College for freshman year, the branch campus system tends to be a good system. Many student from my high school class went to a branch campus for 2 years and then transferred to State College and their degree will still say Penn State. There are also a few branches that will offer the 4-year degree in certain specialties (I know Abington is an example) and the degree will still say Penn State, not the particular branch.</p>
<p>However, all that being said, I truly believe the PA state school system is the way to get the most bang for your buck for the truly average (not CC average) student in PA.</p>
<p>I'm from PA - went to Pitt. I wish we had the options here in GA that there are in PA! So many colleges, and so many good colleges. I'm from Erie, so I'm used to the schools in that corner of the state which, aside from Allegheny, seldom get mentioned here on CC. </p>
<p>Edinboro University of PA has a very high admit rate, low cost (even for out of staters - think total costs are only about $15K), and is a popular school in that corner. Both my parents are alum (when it was Edinboro State Teachers College). Seems to inspire a lot of loyalty in the area.</p>
<p>Penn State Behrend campus used to be easier to get into than State College - not sure if that's still the case.</p>
<p>Hi NY mom of "average" HS student. D is now a freshman at SUNY Cortland. I'll chime in a bit as we looked at a few Pa. schools geared to the average kid. We looked at York- (d didn't like area so did not apply) and d did apply to West Chester and Temple. West Chester was the only school my d did not get into- even with 89 average and 23 ACT. Though she got into all SUNY's, Towson, GMU and a bunch others, West Chester didn't accept her. When we toured Temple (which I liked alot but a bit too urban for my kid), we had a student guide from western PA. giving the tour. I got the impression she was from a fairly rural area and LOVED the idea of going to school in Philly. So for some Pa. kids, being in Philly may be a big thrill. Temple also has a satellite campus (Ambler) which is near Philly but more suburban.<br>
Don't overlook SUNY- our OOS tuition is reasonable (about $12,000) and there really are some interesting programs at SUNY campuses.</p>
<p>I really do not have any first hand information to offer. But all the OSU fans cheered when the Slippery Rock score was announced every home game in Ohio Stadium. I am not sure if they still do that.</p>
<p>Seriously though, it is probably on a par with the other Penn State colleges mentioned here.</p>
<p>We're in eastern PA. After visiting - Temple too urban. Pitt - D did not like. PSU-UPark is a reach but considering branch campuses.</p>
<p>1PSMOM - i'd be interested to hear which schools offered "significant merit aid". It is just so overwhelming :)</p>
<p>I agree with Binx - I think there are great schools in PA! I wouldn't rule out Pitt (I really like Pitt). Here are their test scores per US News:
SAT scores (25/75 percentile):
Verbal:
560 – 660
Math:
570 – 670
Combined:
1130 – 1330 </p>
<p>ACT scores (25/75 percentile):
English:
N/A
Math:
N/A
Composite:
24 – 29</p>
<p>They didn't list their GPA.</p>
<p>Also look right across the border at Ohio University (Athens). Good scholarship possibilities there, and very happy kids.</p>
<p>Well, those are my suggestions! Good luck!</p>
<p>For MomFirst: Another school in that book Forty Schools that Change Lives is McDaniel College in Westminster, MD. It has a beautiful campus, small, liberal arts, great for the average stats AND gives good merit aid...Don't know why it can't be found on CC; maybe they don't "subscribe" and like to stick with word of mouth. Also, as a host mother to a former Penn State Abington student from Texas, thats another option. He spent two years boarding with me, then transferred to main campus and loved it. Abington is a pretty campus and half hour from Center City, Phila. Lastly, I have heard of lots of happy kids at Kutztown University. So, those are my three recommendations.</p>
<p>My rough guide to finding a college that fits is to first eliminate a whole bunch. There has to be some things that are priorities and some things that are absolutely out. For instance, If your student hates the city, you won't even look at the Temple, St. Joe's, Drexel, etc. If they hate the rural area's you can knock off most of the state schools and many of the LAC's like Juniata and Allegheny. If you want small classes, forget PSU main campus, at least for the first couple of years. Of course, if your student has a potential major it mind that makes it even easier. Get rid of any colleges that are super reaches unless you have one of those super achieving CC kids. Cost, well that's the tricky part. We told our kids that we would pay a certain amount and the rest they would have to take out loans for. Fortunately they were able to get good merit aid so that wasn't much of a problem. Like 1psmom said, if your student has stats above the avg. admitted student they have a much better shot at merit aid.</p>
<p>My son was a solid B student and was offered a little merit aid at York, nice merit aid at Allegheny, nothing at Millersville (no suprise!). Sometimes it pays to go out of state. </p>
<p>Here is a nice website: <a href="http://www.collegedata.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegedata.com/</a> where you can plug in your efc and get an estimate on how much you might expect to get finaid-wise. I found it to be fairly accurate to the offers we got.</p>
<p>Many of Pa's smaller state colleges are already mentioned in this post. Lots of goodies there. Though I think your state schools are on the expensive side, they still beat going out of state for the most part unless you go south, and are bargains compared to the private schools. You may also want to look at some of the catholic schools in Pa, as some of them may "discount" if you fit what they like. York has already been mentioned, and I'll throw in Grove City. IT has a religious bent to it, but I know many kids there; they all seem to love it, and they claim that it is not a bible thumping school; just a tad more obvious in the religion end than a typical catholic college. There are schools in West Virginia and Virginia that are not as expensive as many schools, and if you continue south, you'll find some more reasonable options.</p>
<p>Weenie - Thanks for the stats on Pitt. I know lots lots of kids attending Pitt who love it. We went on a campus visit and my D just didn't like it. It just didn't appeal to her. I guess it's the whole urban campus thing. I'm just glad that we started to look at schools early because there are so many things you <em>think</em> you want in a campus, but when you actually visit - you change your criteria.</p>