Packaging a plodder for admission

Parents Forum
1

<p>D is only a high school freshman, but I am reading this year's admissions threads with great interest, as it seems to be a crazier time than what I saw with my older two as far as admissions to the good but not tip top schools. Over the years on here, I've noted that many posters comment that the better schools don't really like the sort of student who is a grind. They prefer the relaxed intellectual, who seems to achieve effortlessly. It seems they'd prefer the student with a lower GPA and higher test scores than the reverse, since the former indicates more natural ability.</p>

<p>So, if I have a student who is more hard-working than smart, what would you recommend for her now and come application time? If I were to tell her story honestly, I'd say that she overcame developmental delays and processing problems, left special ed. behind, and is now in honors classes doing very well grade-wise. But she is not as naturally intelligent as her classmates, and that will almost definitely manifest in her SAT's, judging by other testing to date. I am not certain that an academic overcoming story will appeal to many adcoms, since they could fear she will hit a ceiling in college. </p>

<p>Should we proceed normally with her typical sports, music and volunteering EC's, and assume there will be plenty of colleges that will like her hard-working profile, or should we seek to add particular sorts of EC's or classes that might counter the grind image? If so, what could work and also be doable given her intellect? </p>

2

<p>Shouldn’t the decision on what EC’s for her to pursue be based on her authentic, genuine interests? </p>

3

<p>Sure, but kids of average or below-average intellect may need more guidance and suggestions regarding what makes sense for their interests and abilities. They may be less aware of what opportunities exist and less perceptive about matching their interests with an appropriate outlet. </p>

<p>I should add that what she says she is interested in seems the polar opposite of what she is suited for, which presents a dilemma.</p>

4

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes. That is precisely what you should do.</p>

<p>Don’t confuse “better” schools with super-selective schools. There are many very good schools who will be very glad to have a student like your D. </p>

<p>Going to a “top” school does not guarantee a “top” life. These graduates don’t all go on to transform the world or make a gajillion dollars. Most just lead ordinary middle-or upper-middle class lives. Smarts are also overrated. Character and social skills matter a lot more to success in life than raw intellectual ability. And I’m saying this as an academic. The world is chock-full of brilliant failures and intellectually average successes.</p>

5

<p>There are tons of places for a girl like that. I have a hard working d, with very mediocre test scores, who was super involved in clubs and sports, volunteering, and all around great kid who did just fine in admissions. Our thought process was we didn’t want her to end up someplace that would be over her head or where she’d feel inferior to her classmates. Find her subjects where she can shine, activities she likes where maybe there are some leadership opportunities. </p>

6

<p>If you think test scores are going to problem? then start researching all the test-optional schools out there. Today there are a lot of them. Start visiting them early so you can get a sense of where she might want to go, and develop a relationship with the admissions office.</p>

<p>As far as “packaging” just let her begin to follow her interests–and in different contexts. For example, my youngest son played soccer on both his high school team and a high level travel team. Along the way he earned a referee license and also became involved in coaching a team with developmentally challenged children and also an inner city team–and he also tutored the students on the inner city team.He did both of these activities for several years. he had a lot to talk about at his interviews and his essays were interesting.</p>

7

<p>Agree w/above re: test optional schools. Do you have a college list in mind already? Sounds like you might. Your daughter sounds terrific - a great work ethic, involvement in sports, volunteering, etc…there are plenty of colleges that would be happy to have her. Not sure why you feel you need to start ‘packaging’ her. </p>

8

<p>I didn’t really have much worry until this admissions cycle, since I assumed she could get in one of our non-flagship state schools. However, I just witnessed some A students with 1800+ SAT’s get rejected from those state schools, and that concerned me. I had some colleges in mind, but I think now they aren’t realistic.</p>

9

<p>I think we have passed the demographic peak that is creating the super-selective environment. I think that by the time your D is applying, there will be many schools that will be happy to take her. Also, test scores alone without the transcript are not predictive. If your D is taking a rigorous college-prep curriculum, even if her test scores are not top-level, she will be a desirable student to many good colleges.</p>

10

<p>Yes, SAT optional schools are definitely the place to go.</p>

11

<p>Test optional is a possibility or see if the ACT works better for her than the SAT. They are totally different types of exams, however, with the new format for the SAT, it is all new. </p>

12

<p>Applying to regions outside of your own, looking at CTCL schools, looking for those schools that are less selective but are good for her major (if she has a plan by her senior year) are all strategies. Her test scores may surprise you, since studying adn working hard can make a difference in test preparation. Continue to encourage her to work hard, to explore her interests and aptitudes and she should be fine. </p>

13

<p>You’ll know what colleges are realistic in two years (when she’s a junior). Right now it makes no sense at all to worry – just give the student support and encouragement, and make sure that she has whatever academic support she needs. She might do better than anyone expects … or she could hit a wall and struggle – or just continue on as is – but each of those 3 different paths might suggest a different set of college plans and goals. </p>

<p>Also, it’s important to become familiar with the testing agencies requirements for providing testing accommodations. A former special ed kid must have had an IEP at one time – but there generally needs to be a recent diagnosis and/or recent history of school accommodations to qualify for the testing accommodations. So if the plodder still has processing issues – now is the time to make sure they are documented and an IEP or 504 plan is in place. </p>

14

<p>Here is a list of test-optional schools :
<a href=“ACT/SAT Optional List - Fairtest”>http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
Though for some scholarships, scores are required, the lack of test scores does not affect financial aid.</p>

<p>Just let her live her life without worrying about building a resume for college admissions, which is just plain unhealthy. Your impulse is understandable, but she will find a good place to go. Many kids are using community college as a launchpad these days, too, and are very successful, with automatic admission to state flagship and various benefits (at least in our state). So that is an option that is always there. But there are many many colleges out there and she will find one and get in. </p>

<p>Work ethic is respected everywhere. A GPA that reflects that is great, as well as recommendation letters from teachers. I think that many places honor that over SAT’s. The reverse, a high SAT and lower GPA, may show a work ethic that is lacking.</p>

<p>If she is eligible for accommodations but chooses not to have an IEP or 504, keep an eye on that because it is true that for test accommodations and for college accommodations, those things are helpful. However, just before college, she can also be re-evaluated and those results can be used for college accommodations if results are relevant.</p>

<p>The suggestion to look at “Colleges that Change Lives” (book, website, fairs) is a good one but wait a couple of years. </p>

<p>So let her enjoy high school, support interests that emerge naturally, and maybe relax for a couple of years, at least on this issue.</p>

15

<p>Let your daughter do ECs that spark her interests regardless of whether you think it aligns with her abilities. She needs to discover on her own what works and what doesn’t work. It sounds like you have a great daughter who is a good student. She works hard, overcoming and moving past learning obstacles and has gotten excellent results. That has to be good. I think colleges want that person in their school. </p>

<p>I am taken aback by words you use to characterize your daughter or her circumstance: plodder, average/below average, less aware, less perceptive. If she’s in Honors classes, she (and you) must be doing something right. If she is interested in activities, let her go. I would argue that the “less perceptive” need more freedom to really find their passion. </p>

<p>My daughter is on her high school robotics team, one of three girls on the build team. She has absolutely no interest in studying math, physics, engineering or computer science and that’s a good thing. While bright, she would struggle in these majors. I did not discourage her from joining the team because of her “deficiencies”. In being part of the team, she discovered that she is good with building and troubleshooting mechanisms, wiring (who knew?), and she’s the go-to person for metal cutting power tools.</p>

<p>As for the admissions process this year, the main lesson I learned is that things can change very quickly - from one year to the next. It’s too early to speculate how your daughter will do in the admissions process. I second looking at the ACT when the time comes (junior year) as well as test-optional schools. Also take a look at Colleges That Change Lives (again, not now but maybe fall of junior year, if you still feel this way) You don’t have to limit your daughter to those particular schools - there are many others like them. </p>

16

<p>

This. Genius has its place but for a team member on a job a hard working genuinely good person can’t be beat.</p>

17

<p>Why does your child have to be “packaged”? </p>

<p>Why can’t she simply lead the charge and do things that she wants, things that she is passionate about and things that are meaningful to her? Let her be her authentic self, she will be much happier.</p>

<p>Considering that this is not your first time at the rodeo, I think that you need to look at this child for who she is, and not in comparison to or in the shadow of her older siblings.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>But why shouldn’t she at least be given the opportunity to try? she may very well surprise you and herself</p>

<p>After all of the “packaging” keep in mind that nothing tops the institutional mission, which is always a moving, ever changing target. </p>

<p>I agree with calmom and compmom regarding the IEP; while she may not need instructional supports in the classroom, if she may need testing modifications (extending time, quiet space, use of a calculator, test questions read aloud, etc.,) for state testing and /SAT/ACTs which she will not receive if she has been decertified. </p>

<p>She may need the IEP for college accommodations (and you can look into the office of disability services at some schools on your radar to see what services the school offers). In addition for some states have funding for students with disabilities that will provide them money for college; in NYS it is Aces-VR and I know that there is a similar program in NJ. If you get a moment, you should meet with the transition coordinator at your child’s school.</p>

18

<p>“I should add that what she says she is interested in seems the polar opposite of what she is suited for, which presents a dilemma”</p>

<p>^^^^My middle daughter!!! Also had a reading disability all through school, but once she entered high school she wanted no trace of it anywhere!! No IEP, no accomadations…she was determined. And a very hard-worker, all honors classes. Sound familiar?? </p>

<p>ECs, tiniest little frame and yet DETERMINED to be a swimmer, the best are long and lanky. And yet hard-work got her to make the high school team, the traveling club team and a recruited D1 athlete for swimming and then later diving. She was captain in high school went to state championships in 2 states (we moved) and received an athletic scholie for a sport she didn’t really “fit”. She turned down the athletic scholie for the academic scholie and still was on the D1 sport team while in college. </p>

<p>Child with a READING disability majored in Classics with a latin minor, tons of reading, graduated with highest honors and an honors thesis. She was pre-med/pre-dental and spent years doing clinical research. She turned down an ivy for an OOS public. She had a very high GPA in college, higher than her siblings, one who graduated from the same high school as val. But her SATs scores where low, she just read too slow. What she finished was correct, the rest she just didn’t get to finish.</p>

<p>Her coach always said he could count on her, part of being on a team and winning is showing up. Showing up when you don’t want to and working hard when you think you can’t. The difference between being a “grind” and a “star” is not in the ability but in the attitude and the can-do attitude is what makes leaders. Colleges want to know what you can bring to the campus, not a laundry list of things to join but what you has a vibrant, hard-working student will DO at that campuses. We all hear about the “slacker” student that really struggles in college to stay on top things that there is no hand-holding in college classes.</p>

<p>Colleges are looking for and want inquisitive, mature, leaders who are hard-working and will contribute to their school. Sounds like that is your daughter!! Let her pick some ECs, let her find her way…she doesn’t have to be the best at what she does, she just needs to try her best, again and again and again.</p>

<p>I didn’t send mine to college to get a diploma and a job unlike some parents. I wanted them to be better educated, well-read and challenged out of their comfort zone because that is how they grow the most. Won’t work for everyone and I am sure most won’t agree with me. I wanted for them so much more than what I have accomplished. So the middle daughter went far, far away 3000+ miles, took Navajo in addition to the Latin, Physics for engineers, softball and flamenco dance. She learned to cliff dive and snowboard and researched all 4 years through the med school. She had blast and grew into a stronger, determined, hardworking well-educated adult. </p>

<p>Seriously a far cry from where her spec ed teacher thought she would ever end up. Encourage your daughter to try new things and really branch out. And the hard-working trait will serve her well.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

19

<p>I think ‘plodder’ is unnecessarily pejorative, but I get the idea you are going for. My daughter is the same way, gets good grades through hard work and lots of time studying. Decent but not stellar SAT scores. She has a good work ethic and should do well in life but will probably not invent the next iteration of the polio vaccine.
We did not target super selective schools, particularly because even if she got in (unlikely at best), we needed significant merit money to afford it. She applied to 9 schools and got accepted to every single one, including our state flagship. She applied early to rolling admissions schools and she had a couple acceptances with affordable options in hand by Christmas.
If I had it to do over, then the only thing I would do differently is to have her start studying for the standardized testing much earlier, we got a late start on the process and I think there was room for improvement on her scores. She also didn’t take the ACT due to lack of time and that was probably a mistake. I’ll do better with my next kid when the time comes, haha.
Sometimes reading CC gives one the impression that if a school is below the ‘caliber’ of Duke or Vandy then it’s bottom of the barrel but that is simply not true. There are many, many perfectly good schools out there that are never mentioned here and those students go on to have happy, successful lives. </p>

20

<p>I am not stopping her from pursuing any interest, but I also know what her limitations are and why certain things just aren’t going to work for her career-wise no matter how much she or we might want them to. Please understand that when I say interest, I am not talking about a passion or something that lights her up or something she shines at. I’m talking about a very mild preference in a kid with few preferences. I chose the words I did not to be negative, but to express that she is more like an ox than a stallion. CCers generally have above average kids who are spirited and self-directing, as evidenced by the talk of passion and interests, but she is not the sort to go where she is not led, nor do what she is not told to do.</p>