<p>A plodder? This post makes my heart hurt. Nothing to add. </p>
<p>“she is not the sort to go where she is not led, nor do what she is not told to do”. And good for her. There’s a t-shirt/bumper sticker/meme that says, “Well behaved women seldom make history.” You D clearly has drive-and lots of it-as she worked her way out of special ed and is taking honors classes. What if, back there in sped someone had told her that she couldn’t make it, couldn’t succeed, wouldn’t be able to manage and she “did what she was told to and go where she was led”? Isn’t it a great thing that never happened?</p>
<p>Your D sounds AMAZING and someone who I would never describe as a “plodder” or an “ox” but a swan-someone who was considered “less” than and has truly blossomed. And who knows what amazing things she will continue to do? Who knows what thing she’s “not suited for” she will choose that ends up being a wonderful achievement? </p>
<p>I have a niece a lot like your D. Instead of wishing she were like her high-achieving, high-stats, Ivy-bound sister, her parents backed her up every step of the way. They didn’t insist she follow a path best suited for her or do what she was told. And you know what? Both girls are successful in their own right. The “ox” won’t ever have 3 degrees or have a fancy sheepskin on her wall, but she is happy, has friends, a very decent job and got the kind of education that suited her. I hope your D feels she has the same kind of support instead of feeling like she will never measure up to mom and dad’s standards.</p>
<p>
While there are examples of people who succeed at things despite (apparently) being unsuited for them, there are also plenty of young people with unreasonable ambitions based on their own talents. I’ve seen some sad cases of kids who wanted to be singers or performers of some other kind who just couldn’t. How to deal with this as a parent is tough–I think perhaps the best thing is to try to suggest activities that are similar, or parallel, or supportive, to the one the kid is interested in. Thus (for example) if the kid wants to act, but doesn’t have the talent, perhaps she could be urged to try to work on tech crew or some other activity related to drama.</p>
<p>Why? My love for her would be foolish and manipulative if I treated her as though she were someone she is not. She is not neuro-typical, and she’s not naturally bright. Admitting that is not mean. All people have value, and she will find a place to be happy and successful, but it’s not just going to happen magically by letting her alone to make a plan for herself. To be blunt, the kids similar to her who used to be her classmates–most of whom had higher IQ’s and fewer issues–have parents who were content to just let them be and allow the chips fall where they may. Where did the chips fall? Life skills classes. </p>
<p>What is she currently interested in? Academic subjects, sports, music, travel, art?? How does she spend her free time?</p>
<p>What makes her laugh? What do you find as her most endearing quality?</p>
<p>How is she about helping others? Younger or the elderly? Animals, insects, the outdoors? Interests…neighbor loved the outdoors and science but not mathy/science she is now a park ranger.</p>
<p>What about her frustrates you and what do you think you CAN help her with? Is she close to you or Dad or a sibling?</p>
<p>And if you were to ask her what she likes about herself, what would she say?</p>
<p>Not so much packaging, yet, but rather a start. It just takes that one spark and you can build on that. Does she have a special relationship with a grandparent or aunt? And if so why?</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>No one said you should leave her alone to her own devices but she’s already shown that she has a spirit and drive that some neurotypical kids don’t even have. And she’s 14. She has plenty of time to continue to grow and explore so who knows what she will discover about herself? All she needs is a backup plan if something she reaches for doesn’t work out. You can guide her, but for heaven’s sake, don’t hold her back. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t call allowing a kid with an 80 IQ to take honors and AP classes holding her back, would you? At the same time, she didn’t decide for herself she wanted to leave special ed, or that she wanted to be in harder classes and therefore she should work really hard. She also didn’t decide to pursue a particular sport because she was interested in it or might be good at it. I told her what to do and she did it willingly, with lots and lots of help and support. The same will apply to getting prepared for college and a future major. I will be mostly my assessment with some input from her. That’s why I am asking for some advice on how to maximize her chances of success, and would prefer it come without the judgment about my love or parenting methods.</p>
<p>We have a couple plodders in the family. I don’t consider it pejorative. They think through things slowly but thoroughly.</p>
<p>I have gained so much from CC, but I do find it frustrating that on the one hand, I read many posts where people say that OP received poor advise, had poor planning, was unrealistic, etc, but then on the other hand, when posters try to honestly address tough issues for future planning, they end up getting slammed for being overly controlling.</p>
<p>What kind of success are you looking for?</p>
<p>That is why I asked the questions that I did, hoping to start the process since she is currently a 9th grader.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>I think it is pretty clear that GFG has not been holding her back. Lots of parents try to gently steer their kids into considering options that they can see the kid is suited for. Guide her, as you say. Seems to me that GFG speaks out of love and concern for her D, someone she knows better than any of us do.</p>
<p>Katwkittens, your D sounds like a wonderful person, but there’s a big difference between a reading disability and an IQ of 80. </p>
<p>Parents guide their kids’ educational/career choices all the time. Heck, without even leaving my own family/friend circle I can think of at least half a dozen doctors/laywers/engineers who choose said career path because “their parents told them to”. </p>
<p>I am confused, and I guess in disagreement with a definition of “naturally bright” that includes the kids who can sit for a standardized test sans prep and score high…and excludes the kid that studies and works hard and achieves well. Naturally bright, to me anyway, doesn’t necessarily equal doesn’t have to work at all for the grade. Just as, “not naturally bright” doesn’t equal having to work hard for success. </p>
<p>Daughter had a very specific and profound learning disability. I chose not to disclose her IQ but one did effect the other. My youngest son also was in spec ed with very special needs so I do understand the differences. That son had a much higher IQ than daughter and yet he graduated high school with a much lower GPA and “life skills” classes. So again I do understand very much.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Math is her absolute toughest subject and currently a C- grade. It is the subject for which she stayed in special ed. the longest and the one where her disabilities are most evident. Physics is her next toughest class currently. She says she wants to do physics or CS for a career. She has an easy computer applications class this year, and next year I am allowing her (with fear and trepidation) to take a computer science class. I am also allowing her to take a tough honors science class, against my better judgment but as a test of her abilities. </p>
<p>She likes all her EC’s and plans to continue them unless I direct otherwise, LOL. She is especially into her sport, and we are helping her as much as is possible to succeed in that endeavor. They are common activities, and it is unlikely she will become a leader in them or be able to show any initiative or non-plodderness in any of them. Hence the concern.</p>
<p>Not naturally bright = 80 IQ</p>
<p>Same son’s worst disability was in math. Struggled through basic math not exceeding tech math and just alg 1. He also struggled with science, did ok in chem. He has since graduated high school, went to cooking school and loves being a chef. He is thinking of going back to school and perhaps would really like to be a kindergarten teacher…don’t need to much math for that!!</p>
<p>It seems like if math is her toughest subject than that would be a concern for a math-based major and later career. As she progresses through her courses and see how many other subjects could be interesting things will change. That is why I asked the other questions that I did. Older son majored in mech e and works on rocket propulsions, other son who loved math/history is finishing up his md/mba but doesn’t use much math in the md part much to his chagrin! Youngest son had bis shadows to grow in and yet he is the most patient, kind and warm of the bros. He makes a great cook, loves to feed people and would make a great teacher unlike the other two!</p>
<p>That is why I asked what kind of success?</p>
<p>And what makes her happy? What does she really enjoy? </p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Summer jobs- camp counselor, youth activities coach for your town. Our local hospital runs a recreation program for kids who get referrals to nutritional specialists and the kids range from those with weight problems but otherwise healthy to kids with a wide range of physical limitations. Bet they’d love a sportsy kid like your D as an assistant coach! Initiative isn’t just being leader of a club-- but figuring out (with your help in this case) how to take a skill or passion you have and translate to kids who don’t have that passion.</p>
<p>There are many computer related careers for people who are not math whizzes-- what your D might be telling you is that she finds computers and CS fascinating (which is great) even if she’s not going to develop the next new programming language. There are all sorts of non-math people doing website design and social media “programming” (not really programming but using an off the shelf program and adding content) and if she loves computers this might be a great fit. Leadership in computers is an easy “fix”- see if a local nursing home will take a volunteer to teach a class on using Facebook, posting pictures, even figuring how how to Skype with a grandchild is a challenge for an elderly person. This is leadership- and your D could excel at this if she’s at all social media savvy. An elderly relative of mine learned how to buy stuff off Amazon from one of the HS volunteers at a senior citizen center and is forever grateful!</p>
<p>I’m getting two impressions here- the first was that this kid was just a plodding ox with nothing to suggest she will ever succeed, when she already HAS done so. The newer story is that she does well if pushed and joins EC’s only when pushed, but is allowed some autonomy in deciding where to focus. It’s almost as though two different children are being described. </p>
<p>I will repeat that it’s amazing that a learning disabled child is taking, and succeeding in honors and even AP classes. No matter where the decision to take them originated, SHE is doing the work, the HARD work that even some neurotypical kids find challenging, and I don’t see that as plodding at ALL. To me it means that she is a DOER and a FIGHTER, to succeed so well. It almost belies the 80 IQ.</p>
<p>As for sports-our local football team just won the Superbowl. There were a handful of players who got all the attention and the glory, but one of the commentators mentioned that the team could not have done as well without the rest of the team members, the NON-superstar digging in and supporting the big names. It takes both types of athletes (or both types of group members) to make a team (or group) successful.</p>
<p>I don’t doubt you love your D very much and want the best for her. Only you can decide how much pushing vs. how much autonomy you’re willing to give her. But honestly, it sounds like she is something very, very special and you shouldn’t change a thing. </p>
<p>I have some “plodders” , i guess. Doesn’t seem to matter all that much if they can hit the numbers in their tests and get top grades in the difficult courses. That they don’t have a single EC passion is really not unusual; most kids don’t. You look to their interests and as a parent look for opportunities with one eye open to possibilities for college apps that interest them. One eye means just giving it that consideration without going rabid so that it becomes the focus. Kid likes working with young children and teaching them, has the patience and is good with them, finding an outlet for that is something you might be able to do rather than waiting for something to drop in kid’s lap. Likes animals, look for something working with them. </p>
<p>IMO trying to fool a highly selective school into thinking your kid is some passionate, greatly talented genius in some area is a rather pathetic endeavor. Unless you know that field well, and your kid can fly with it, you’ll likely be exposed. I remember one mother who was citing how her kid is so fantastic in chess, but didn’t know what I was even asking when asked what his ranking was. Ummm, NOt likely. Just as an ace tennis player will know exactly what questions to ask to pinpoint where someone exactly is in terms of skill level, those in highly selective admissions knows what counts. There was a book, called "What it Takes to Get into The Ivy League ", something like that , which had an excellent list of what sort of accomplishments turn the admissions directors at highly selective schools’ heads, and those things are not easy to get at all. Being nationally ranked in things like debate, being a Siemans finalist, things like that are what count. </p>
<p>I don’t think the OP is trying to get her kid into Princeton- just mulling on what it will take to get her D to a four year university where she can study something she loves. OP- is this correct?</p>
<p>If this is the case, then a hard working, “shoulder to the wheel” type of kid who doesn’t test well but has been punching above her weight academically should have lots of options. And I think a subtle redirection towards careers (animal tech vs.vet; personal trainer vs. orthopedic surgeon, webmaster or director of social media vs. computer scientist, employee relations manager at a tech company vs. manager of new business development) is very appropriate.</p>
<p>Interesting story. If she were my child, I would continue to guide her in her school and EC choices, but not with an eye to packaging her for college so much as helping her find what she likes and is good at----and to help her develop in areas in which she is weak. (Hmm, I do the same with my neurotypical kids. One child was terribly shy, so I spent a lot of effort helping him learn to be comfortable in his own skin.)</p>
<p>You say she is hard working but may well hit a ceiling in what she can do. That makes me think you should focus less on packaging her for a selective college and more on finding the place where she can best develop to her potential. Because of her delays, will she need your help in college? Would it be better to keep her nearby? I am wondering about some executive function issues. Would she be better off taking extra years to finish? Would she do better in a small school where people would know her? If she is likely to change her major, should you find a place that is liberal in letting kids switch around? </p>
<p>I am not looking for her to attend a selective school; I don’t know where that idea came from. I am looking for her to attend a 4 year school, close to home, that we can afford. Given that FA is weaker at less selective private schools than at elite private ones, I had been thinking about the non-flagship state universities, as I mentioned earlier. The problem is that I’ve noticed that even these were quite selective this year as far as GPA and test scores, such that I am not sure D would be accepted with the profile she will likely have. That led me to thinking about a mid-range private, in which case some planning might be needed to show her in the best light. </p>