Paralyzed by college search

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I’ve been lurking for a while and decided it might be helpful to post. My son is frustrated with his college search. There is almost too much information out there to sift through.</p>

<p>We live in Michigan. Before he started looking around he had his heart set on University of Michigan. He is gay and likes Ann Arbor. He isn’t outgoing as far as seeking help with assignments so Mom here suggested he look at smaller schools. We went to a Colleges That Change Lives program a couple of weeks ago where he spoke to a few representatives but he didn’t have any specific questions.</p>

<p>He doesn’t want to attend any other schools in Michigan and seems to think he needs to be in/near a larger city. He is presently enamored with Reed College, but is apprehensive about the enormous amount of studying required. St. Johns College in Annapolis, MD is intriguing to him, as well as Macalester’s location in St. Paul. </p>

<p>At this point he is undecided about a major, but is interested in American Literature, writing or possibly editing. We have thrown out suggestions that he hasn’t completely dismissed, such as Library Science and accounting. His hesitation about accounting revolves around the inevitability of acquiring the same pot belly and mortgage his CPA dad did.</p>

<p>4.0 gpa at a public high school. He doesn’t have to work very hard for these grades. Any college will be a big change there.</p>

<p>34 ACT (10/12 writing)</p>

<p>SAT scores
Math 710
Verbal 710
Writing 660</p>

<p>Junior year AP classes:
Physics (hated it) and Government.
Scored a 3 on the Government AP exam but didn’t study much.</p>

<p>Senior year AP classes:
Calculus, Econ, English</p>

<p>-works 10 hours/week at the library.
-starting his third year playing bassoon in the local youth symphony
-some involvement in the local Red Cross youth auxiliary.
-participated in a high school writing group that compiles a year end publication of student poetry and short essays.
-Youth in Government weekend at the state capital.</p>

<p>Maybe I’m wrong, but someplace like Reed seems to be more suited as a preparation for grad school. The low four year graduation rate is bothersome as well. In an ideal world he’ll be out in four years.</p>

<p>Do you have any suggestions what to look for in a school for a student that is undecided on a major? Do you have suggestions as to what schools might be a good match for my son?</p>

<p>Thanks for any suggestions you might have.</p>

2

<p>Why have you so quickly decided against u mich? He likes the area. Large schools near cities have a higher number of gay students in general. Large schools generally have more and varied extra curricular activities. Large schools can be made smaller depending on your major or if you belong to an honors program.Large schools have larger student services organizations where he can get help if needed. Since you are in state it will even be less expensive. And he wants to go there! Could go on and on.</p>

<p>Lots to be said about being somewhat closer to home rather than going to either coast.</p>

3

<p>I'd suggest Grinnell, Oberlin, Occidental, Earlham, Bard, Skidmore, Colorado, Connecticut, and Hampshire Colleges, if he likes the liberal arts and may want to go to grad school.</p>

<p>If he likes UMichigan, he might find UWisconsin, UIllinois, UWashington, UNorth Carolina, UOregon, UTexas, and UMinnesota attractive as they are all vibrant and more liberal schools with career-oriented terminal BA degree options (i.e. accounting, marketing, human resource mangement, etc...) and a very good social/intellectual scene.</p>

<p>As for being close to home...it depends. Going outside the region exposes him to a different cultural ethos or mindset, and shows him the similarities and differences in the US--as well as how to cope with those who may have differing opinions or practices. Definately a positive, unless he plans to stay in the Midwest after graduation.</p>

4

<p>Oberlin in Ohio would be good--it's not real close to a big city but it is about twice the size of most small liberal arts colleges, and has an offbeat student body that would seem to be somewhat similar to Reed's.</p>

5

<p>4.0 GPA and 34 ACT composite could get him a solid scholarship to Michigan. Can you truly justify turning down an education at Michigan for a lesser school that will cost $20,000-$40,000 more per year? Michigan seems to fit him in every way. He should definitely apply to Reed and Oberlin and other excellent universities, but Michigan should also be on his list.</p>

6

<p>Instate tuition at U-Mich and that is where your son wants to go. How lucky can you get. IMO I'd tread lightly with "pushing" him to consider other schools. That action could be interpreted by some kids as that you are disapproving his choice and can send him the wrong message especially as he already has his heart set on UMich. He should apply to a few schools- just in case he changes his mind and does actually want a different environment, but I think U Mich should be encouraged.<br>
PS-- I am not a fan of LAC's or small schools in general. Maybe that's why U Mich sounds good to me.</p>

7

<p>You stated you are thinking smaller schools as he is not outgoing enough to seek help in classes. I'm not sure how a smaller school would help with that. Most intro classes are larger than more advanced classes no matter what college you go to. Classes become smaller as you specialize.</p>

<p>Notice Alexandre poster is a moderator so he knows alot about u mich.</p>

8

<p>Thanks for your comments. I was looking for opinions from people who know more - and are more objective - than I. His Dad and I are perfectly fine with him attending U of M - even though we're both Michigan State grads :) We just wanted him to get a feel for what else is out there and have some alternatives to consider in case he didn't get accepted at U of M. As far as scholarships there, I figured kids like him are all over the campus so there wouldn't be much chance of scholarship money.</p>

<p>The lower tuition and proximity to home are definite pluses. Also U of M does have the Residential College which, as I understand, is a LAC type school within the university.</p>

<p>He thinks he needs to visit Reed before applying, but I say he should find out if he's accepted first.</p>

<p>Last summer he spent a week in San Francisco with friends of mine and absolutely loved it. The Reed rep compared Portland to San Francisco and I'm certain that helped up the glam factor there.</p>

9

<p>He might like Wesleyan U. or Bard C... both highly intellectual, gay-friendly, well-regarded LACs.</p>

10

<p>Portland is a very ecclectic, liberal, safe, and open-minded city. And, Reed is a great college.</p>

<p>UMichigan is a good choice for those who do not mind how large the school is or how that immenseness impacts different kids with different studying styles. Some might like the liberation that comes from lots of choice and a bit of stealth at the bigger universities, while others might long for the small classes and intimacy of liberal arts colleges.</p>

<p>It depends on what you're sons comfort level is and what affects it. The visit to Reed (or a college like Oberlin, Grinnell, Carleton, or Macalester) might get him to clarify what he wants out of school. Be prepared for him to stay in love with UMichigan or find a new love in a liberal arts college.</p>

<p>Contrary to what some have suggested, universities (and colleges) are not for every student. The student (your son) will be better able to make a good choice by being able to do a comparison (even if it's with a liberal arts college closer to home rather than Reed).</p>

<p>I think, once he's been able to at least do that, he'll make the right decision and be comfortable with it, no matter if he chooses UMichigan or a college like Reed.</p>

11

<p>If you are worried about the "Gay" thing being a problem,, here is a list of the top ten schools where the gay community is accepted according to princeton review
1. New york u
2. eugene lang college
3. new college of florida
4. macalester college
5.college of teh atlantic
6. simons rock college of bard
7. wellesley college
8. mount holyoke
9. bryn mawr college
10. bennington college</p>

<p>other top 20's include
emerson
harvey mudd
wesleyan
swarthmore
reed</p>

<p>never forget 9-11
if you havent seen this movie...i'd recommend it-- <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=loose+change%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=loose+change&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

12

<p>Breakfastclub, Welcome to CC. </p>

<p>I, myself, am an alumna of Michigan. I think it’s a terrific school so the point of this message is not to knock UM or to argue about the merits of large vs small, but rather to give you more information about LACs. </p>

<p>My son decided to forego the big university and is now a senior at Williams. For him a small LAC was absolutely the right choice and now that he’s thinking about applying to graduate school that decision is reinforced again and again.</p>

<p>With your son’s grades/scores and extracurriculars he would be a person of interest to just about any college or university. Of course, there are no guarantees, but there is nothing in his profile that would keep him out of any school. With his writing skills he should be able to put together compelling essays and there isn’t an orchestra in existence that doesn’t need a bassoonist! At some colleges, being gay is an advantage as it contributes to cultural diversity.</p>

<p>My suggestion would be to concentrate now on the personalities of various LACs, hopefully do some visiting and come up with a short list of varying selectivity. If in the end, he decides that the LAC is the right route for him, he should make sure that he’s covered in the safety category. Michigan would not be a good safety if he wants an LAC.</p>

<p>Reed is academically an excellent school. Like most LACs it has a well-defined character – you either love it or hate it. Because of its reputation for being “extremely liberal” and intellectually intense, its selectivity is low relative to its academic rating. </p>

<p>The best way to judge whether your son would be happy at Reed or any other LAC would be to visit. If a trip to either coast isn’t workable then I’d suggest you try to visit some selective Midwestern LACs like Macalester, Grinnell, Kenyon, Oberlin. Although not an LAC, the University of Chicago would seem to be a good fit as well.</p>

<p>On the East Coast I’d look at Bard, Vassar, Skidmore, Swarthmore, Wesleyan. Because of his strength in music + writing I wouldn’t eliminate Williams, even though it is decidedly non-urban. </p>

<p>You don’t mention whether or not financial aid is essential to your family. If yes, you’ll need it, then you need to determine whether you would qualify for need based aid or if your son would be dependent on merit aid. This is the first step in establishing his list as there is a lot of variation between the amount and kind of aid available from school to school. If you don’t need financial aid then your son can have an unrestricted list.</p>

<p>I don’t think he needs to worry about choosing a major just yet. Unless he’s going into something very specific like engineering he doesn’t need to declare a major until well into the second year. The beauty of a liberal arts education – either at a large university or a small college – is that you can take a wide variety of courses across disciplines that interest you. All selective LACs have good basics – English, Math, Science. The strength and speciality of the individual departments varies somewhat but not enough to be a deal breaker. </p>

<p>Some have a core curriculum which means everyone takes the same basic courses for the first year or two, some have distribution requirements which means you take a few classes from general categories, some have absolutely no restrictions.</p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how it goes.</p>

13

<p>I think a LAC would be a perfect fit. I went to a semi-LAC (Dartmouth) and contrary to what's been expressed above I found the experience tremendous. I honestly had probably only a total of 2-3 classes with 50ish people (never over 100), and conversely I had 10+ classes with under 10 people. I think the posters rejecting the notion of a LACish school have never had the exposure to a LAC. Also, there are many gay friendly top LACs with incredible grad placement and strong job recruiting.</p>

<p>I would steer away from accounting, when your son is exposed to a top 10-15 school he'll realize there are much more fun and lucrative ways to make lots of money of he chooses to, and much more interesting ways to make an equal amount of money. I would look at the top LACs and some of the Ivies which seem perfect for him. Brown particularly. </p>

<p>Oh yeah, and don't send the SATs to colleges where you are allowed to only send the ACT. A 34 is MUCH better than his SAT scores.</p>

<p>If I had to make a list for him based on your comments I would put:</p>

<p>Reach
Brown
Columbia
Yale</p>

<p>Slight Reach/ High Match
Wesleyan</p>

<p>Match
Vassar</p>

<p>Safe Match
Michigan
Reed
Oberlin
Grinnell</p>

<p>Safe
Whitman
Skidmore</p>

14

<p>Breakfastclub,</p>

<p>I think you received some good advice from momrath and slipper1234… and I would encourage your son to look seriously at LACs that meet his desired academic and cultural fit. By what you described of his persona, it does sound as if he might find a smaller campus environment to be more to his tastes. </p>

<p>My first thought in hearing about his academic interests was Wesleyan University, which is very solid in their liberal arts tradition and notable for literature/creative writing programs. My daughter’s friend is attending Wesleyan presently. It also has had an active gay/lesbian organization (Spectrum) which he might find to be a good resource for social activities. Middletown is about equi-distant between NYC and Boston, either of which would be about 2 hours away. It is about 20 minutes from Hartford and not too distant from New Haven. I think with your son’s GPA and test scores, he’s a match for Wesleyan.</p>

<p>Regarding a couple of other schools mentioned… I think if he is apprehensive about Reed’s academic intensity, he might find Swarthmore to be even more intense. I tend to think of Swarthmore as a school that students either love or they hate – and it’s my opinion that it is a school that may create a different impression upon visiting. About Grinnell in Iowa, it’s about an hour from Des Moines, and otherwise in the middle of a lot of cornfields and hog farms (my impression from having been there). I like the people of Iowa, and while Grinnell may be a fine school, the region strikes me as being neither urban nor urbane by comparison to other urban regions. </p>

<p>One suggestion, if the gay tolerance/acceptance issue is of concern, is to make contact with the gay/lesbian/bi club or organization with each school of interest. Get opinions about the climate of acceptance and the social activities surrounding the gay orientation. It’s easy to forget that while academic factors often drive the search for a college, the emotional well being of the student is predicated on opportunities to become integrated with the campus life by making friends and feeling comfortable within the social milieu.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

15

<p>If Portland is attractive, consider Lewis and Clark.
And how about Colorado College?</p>

16

<p>Thank you for the effort you put into your thoughtful responses. He has been looking at some of the schools you mentioned, so we must not be too far off track. Now if we can only get the money side of things to work out.</p>

17

<p>Today's NYTimes had an article about colleges that were ranked according to how accepting the atmosphere is for gay students:
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/14/fashion/14guide.html?_r=1&oref=slogin%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/14/fashion/14guide.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Menloparkmom, interesting article... I guess being here in the Bay Area, we value the diversity that exists in our region, but it's encouraging to see diversity practices so widely accepted and scattered. </p>

<p>Breakfastclub, I came across this website for Wesleyan University:
<a href="http://www.wesleyan.edu/queer/prospective.htt%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wesleyan.edu/queer/prospective.htt&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

19

<p>"it's not real close to a big city"</p>

<p>Oberlin is 40 minutes from Cleveland. That makes it closer to a big city than lots of other LACs. </p>

<p>It's also probably closer to you than all the non-MI schools mentioned so far, maybe about a 3 hour drive. FWIW.</p>

<p>I don't know about "safe match", though.</p>

20

<p>With respect to slipper 1234 last post, I would say if a student is looking for college with a culture like Reed, they are very unlikely to enjoy Whitman. Both good schools, but very very different culture and location (Whitman being rural and very outdoorsy).</p>