Parent/Child timetable for high school

<p>Marian: My D is taking honors physics this year as a sophomore. Which subject test should she take? And why do they matter?</p>

<p>My issue is not with the activities they do, but rather with doing them well and being able to show it. Even if your kid only cares about video games, it would still be better to get involved in a club that designs them, or sets up tournaments, etc. Anything you like to do, you can do well.
Some schools do a great job of telling kids about opportunities, and others don’t. The Scholastic awards are a great example–not a peep about this from my kids’ school, even though there are lots of kids who would benefit.</p>

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<p>They matter because some highly selective colleges require them. If your daughter is a potential candidate for those colleges, she needs to choose Subject Tests that meet the college’s requirements (this may differ for different majors) and that will demonstrate her abilities as well as possible.</p>

<p>Fortunately, in most cases students only need to take two of them.</p>

<p>Whether or not one should be Physics is a decision only she and you can make (perhaps with some help from the teacher or counselor). The decision can be complicated. But it’s something you should be investigating, in my opinion, because if it is a good idea for her to take the Physics test, the end of this school year would be the optimum time to take it. At that point, she will have had the full course and will remember its content better than she would next year.</p>

<p>Assuming it is desired to take these specific tests (check with possible colleges; these are typical tests taken by prospective physics and engineering majors):</p>

<p>Math Level 2 is best taken upon completion of precalculus.</p>

<p>Physics is best taken upon completion of physics, unless the student enrolls in a more advanced physics (e.g. AP or college) course the following year.</p>

<p>Note that both of these tests tend to attract high achieving students (in the “normal grade level course progression” in high school, precalculus and physics are senior courses), so high scores in these tests are common.</p>

<p>Most of the schools that want two subject tests, ask for one of them to be Math II. It isn’t always just physics and engineering. As I recall, Stanford wanted two - and preferred Math II as one of them - if I’m remembering right. </p>

<p>I think if you can get these out of the way after sophomore year - you are ahead. Less tests to take Junior year. You can also take - and choose not to submit - or take a different test later to try to get a higher score. </p>

<p>I’m still not clear if subject test scores fall into that “we request you submit all test scores”.</p>

<p>My youngest son did not like his Math 2 score at all and ended up applying to lots of schools that were happy to take his good scores (Biology, US History and Literature). Neither of my kids found it a strain to take 3 subject tests on a single day. </p>

<p>If you are going to take an AP Physics course before senior year you can wait. The easiest way to figure out if you should take the Physics test is to take the practice test in the Blue Book of sample tests that the College Board publishes. Both my kids found that their actual scores were very close to practice tests. (And DS2 should have realized that skipping the math was a good idea.)</p>

<p>To me, the schedule posted originally is a recipe for stress. Kids should not spend 3 years of high school thinking about college, but should be trying to explore in the present. It’s really hard on them, to spend those years focused on getting into college: the results are obvious on “top college” campuses.</p>

<p>In my family, the college search started (half-heartedly, admittedly) in Feb. of junior year. Before that, we never mentioned college at all. As a junior, my son asked if he could maybe not go to college. I said sure, he could work. At his first visit, he read a magazine while his sister read the college catalog. Her finally wrote an essay just before Dec. 31st. He graduated from an Ivy 6 years later. Kids change. And some of the resistance is amivalence about change, and leaving. I would not have wanted him to deal with that in 10th grade.</p>

<p>As for major, I think 10th grade is way too early. Again, kids change. I have read that overplanning in that way actually can inhibit possibilities. Students often change their majors once on campus (I have read this is true for the majority) and really only need to choose at the end of sophomore year in most places.</p>

<p>Do you want your son to go to college with an open mind, and maybe run into something that excites him that he maybe never thought about before? I know that is scary, financially, but I guess I still hope students can do that.</p>

<p>There is a lot of debate here and elsewhere about what college is for. So, in this economy, with college costing what it does, I can understand making college about a career. But I hope that you/we don’t have to make high school about career too.</p>

<p>In these years, I would say it is great to be attentive to interests and find opportunities to develop them, as naturally as possible. I wouldn’t mention that it is for colleges in any way, but for the actual interest in and of itself. I always pictured it like riding a wave. Sometimes the wave will change quite a few times, but sometimes you can catch a really long one and they end up with one of those “passions” everyone always refers to.</p>

<p>A lot of kids to decide their major until the end of freshman year of college.</p>

<p>A lot of kids wait until the end of their sophomore or beginning of junior year to declare a major…</p>

<p>The problem witlatin much talk about majors in 10th grade is most 15 year old kids don’t have enough life experience to really know what they want to do with their lives. They know sexy jobs that show up on TV, and jobs they see every day. Think about what you thought you wanted to do with your life in 10th grade, and where you are now. For most people I know it isn’t even close. </p>

<p>I know there are some kids who are so gifted in one area that it seems clear at an early age what direction they will take, but I wouldn’t want to close any doors prematurely by focusing too much on a major in 10th grade.</p>

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<p>Some do. Some don’t. If you’re applying to a school that wants Math II, but math is not one of your strongest two subjects, the solution is to take three subject tests. Most colleges that do not require specific tests look primarily at your two highest scores. </p>

<p>Just remember that most schools want your tests to be in two different academic areas – for example, math and history or science and literature, not two sciences.</p>

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<p>At which point it is no longer possible for them to major in certain subjects that require a lot of sequential courses unless they attend college for more than eight semesters.</p>

<p>I agree that the decision about a college major doesn’t have to be made in 10th grade, but in some fields, it does need to be made before the end of sophomore year. Of course, students can hedge their bets. I did it myself. I wanted to major in biology but wasn’t sure I could compete with the pre-meds and succeed. So in addition to starting out in the biology major, I also made a point of taking the prerequisites for the psychology major. As it turned out, I was fine in bio. But I had an alternative waiting in the wings if bio didn’t work out.</p>

<p>I suggested the same sort of strategy to both of my kids, and they looked at me as though I was out of my mind (which perhaps I am) and went on to major in their chosen subjects (computer science for one, economics for the other) with no backup majors, no regrets, and no difficulties. Some people are more sure of themselves than I was.</p>

<p>As far as choosing your major in 10th grade…maybe I should have said explore various types of major. I will be doing that with my middle on next year. Yes, most have no idea. HOWEVER, he is my history/lit kid and if we make it through Geometry this year it will be a miracle. So schools like MIT or Georgia Tech are not feasible. That is what I meant. Yes, I should have put visiting schools starting in 10th grade. I did that with my oldest. We started with the closest, nonthreatening ones first. </p>

<p>Some of you are saying that you don’t really look at colleges until the spring of junior year. How in the world does that give you time??? This spring has been nuts with 2 dual credit classes, 2 AP classes, ACT, SAT and then of course the 2 AP exams. He will be going to a special visitation to his top choice for computer science majors with high test scores. Many colleges have things like that for juniors. If we had waited, we wouldn’t be able to do it. This summer is jam packed as well. We really needed to start whittling down at least some in 10th grade and into 11th, so that we are focused now…</p>

<p>My oldest knew his major when he was seven - and his job choice (correct) is documented in his fifth grade yearbook. I think he may be the only kid in the class doing what he predicted though! My oldest figured out his major during the process of applying to colleges. We talked a lot his senior year about what he was good at and what his options were. He did have a fallback major last year, but as it turns out he really hated both courses in that department, so I don’t think he’s going there!</p>

<p>As I said we used February, Spring and Labor Day breaks to visit colleges. We didn’t visit a huge number. Four junior year, four during accepted student weekends with the older kid, seven on three trips with younger son ahead of time and four during accepted student events.</p>

<p>Choirfarm, about college visits:</p>

<p>We didn’t do any until junior year with S2 (who was much more eager to do visits), and the summer between jr and senior year with S1 (who was more of the “dragged kicking and screaming” sort of kid).</p>

<p>We used teacher work days, holiday days, spring break, summer break, and took some days off of school for visits. We did NOT visit any schools that were so far away that a plane ride would have been required, but we’re in the minority on the CC boards on that philosophy. </p>

<p>The schools we didn’t visit ahead of time were those they were the least likely to attend, mostly because they were very high reaches or very pricey. It was a good decision for our family not wasting our time visiting them ahead of acceptances, but a lot of CC parents would disagree. I don’t think visiting/not visiting made a bit of difference for my two kids. Of the 16 schools (combined) that they applied to, they were accepted to all but the very high reaches, which were shots in the dark, anyway, and also long way away. Both kids were accepted at excellent schools they hadn’t visited. (Vanderbilt, Villanova, College of William and Mary, for example).</p>

<p>We visited the colleges that were really, really important to the kids, and the small LACs that really, really care about visits. Some that we did visit don’t keep track of visits (UVA) and could not have cared less that we were there.</p>

<p>Suggestion for the spreadsheet: use a Google Docs document so that you and your child can both access & edit them.</p>

<p>I think a lot of the feedback about what is too early and what is too late really depends on the student. Girls seem to be willing to engage a little earlier than boys do. D2 has a specific variation on a major in mind and spent time over the summer between sophomore & junior year looking at the 30+ schools that met her criteria so she could narrow it down to a manageable number. She’s far less stressed now with her list of 11, than her friends who haven’t even started looking yet. Not every kid will do this; D2 had a fantastic time at a summer program last year that made her realize she wanted a similar environment for her undergrad experience. Hence the willingness to put the time in to research.</p>

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<p>True, but a careful student will have planned his/her first two years of schedule to leave the door open for all of the majors s/he might decide on. How many students, in the second semester of sophomore year, take a breadth course, think it is interesting enough to major in, but then discover that they cannot start majoring in it that late because it has too many requirements or too long a prerequisite sequence to be able to finish on time?</p>

<p>Of course, taking high school course work that leaves the student well prepared for college level work without needing remedial courses is essential. This includes:</p>

<ul>
<li>English: four years or AP level</li>
<li>Math: precalculus at least (calculus desirable if offered and student completes precalculus 11th grade or earlier)</li>
<li>History and social studies: three or four years</li>
<li>Science: all three of biology, chemistry, and physics</li>
<li>Foreign language: level three at least (level four or AP desirable)</li>
<li>Art and/or music: yes</li>
</ul>

<p>ucbalumnus, I like your list of what to take in high school, but I would add one more thing:</p>

<p>If the student has any interest in the possibility of majoring in computer science, it would be a good idea to take at least one year, and preferably more, of computer programming if offered at your high school, even if you have to sacrifice foreign language beyond level 3 to do it.</p>

<p>My son majored in computer science, now has a master’s degree in that field, and has TAed computer science courses. He says that even though the course catalog may say that the introductory computer science course has no prerequisites, most of the students in the course have previous programming experience, and anyone who doesn’t would have a struggle trying to pass it.</p>

<p>I think part of the problem may be the number of colleges being considered by the original poster’s son and perhaps more generally. It is just a lot of stress (and money) to apply to so many. It keeps going up every year. I don’t know how the college admissions departments handle it.</p>

<p>My oldest applied to 4 (visited 9), my middle to 2 colleges and 4 conservatories (visited those 6 and literally drove through 4 more en route), and my youngest applied to two colleges. I think she visited 3 before applying, and one after acceptance. This was 1-2 years ago.</p>

<p>I can understand starting with 20, but maybe getting the final list down to 6 would help.</p>

<p>Also, we always started with a visit to one area that had a state u., a private LAC, and an alterative, artsy kind of place. None of them applied to any of the schools in the area, but it helped them see 3 types of school and then narrow the list. Or, at least it got them to start thinking (yes, in Feb. of junior year). Hope that helps.</p>

<p>Re: #37</p>

<p>Yes, computer science in high school can be desirable, although content and quality can vary considerably (the AP CS A syllabus may not even be a semester’s worth of CS course at some colleges). A motivated student can try reading a classic introductory CS book and doing the examples and exercises in it at home using a free Scheme programming language interpreter:</p>

<p>[Welcome</a> to the SICP Web Site](<a href=“http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/]Welcome”>http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/)</p>

<p>Modified version using Python programming language:</p>

<p>[CS61A</a>, Spring 2012 Online Textbook](<a href=“http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/sp12/book/index.html]CS61A”>CS61A, Spring 2012 Online Textbook)</p>

<p>We did ONE college visit junior year, all the rest in fall of senior year or in winter when S had music auditions (which we also used as visits in some cases).</p>

<p>D is a freshman and already wants to do visits.</p>