Parent Concern Over School's Support of Extracurricular Project

Parents Forum
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<p>I rarely start a thread on here but I gotta vent about something that happened at school today and I cannot think of a better bunch of understanding parents on here to listen and offer perspectives as I value your input and just being there. Besides all that, you come from various school communities and have all different sorts of kids so that helps with perspective. If you don't like reading venting stories, do skip this one! ;-) Admittedly, it is long....</p>

<p>Part One:</p>

<p>First I have to give some background. Our high school is a public school but small with 600 kids in grades 9-12 but the middle school is also part of the high school facility with another 180 kids approx. It is a rural high school serving six towns. My youngest daughter is heavily involved in the performing arts, aspiring to a BFA degree program in musical theater, as well as a career on stage. She has an extensive background in the field both in and out of school. She just turned sixteen and would be a junior but is graduating a year early so this is her last year there. Actually she is the age of a tenth grader where we live. This is her third year in the high school. She comes across older than she is socially and intellectually and is a leader type person and a creative person. </p>

<p>Last year, when in tenth grade, she initiated something big at our school. She created a musical cabaret revue. She wrote the show, determined all of the music, located the music, contacted and contracted with ten other students to be in her cast (these students were all older than herself and basically the kids in our school who both are the most talented in theater and most interested in theater), organized every aspect down to hiring band members, lighting crew, sets/costumes, compiled libretto and sample CDs for each cast member, directed the show, musical directed (plays piano), choreographed the dance numbers, dealt with financial issues (chose to donate all proceeds to the American Cancer Society....in part, as her grandfather died of cancer during the rehearsal period), publicity, program design, as well as performed in the show. The entire endeavor was student run without any adult help. It was a collaborative effort in the end but my daughter's brainchild, as well as her leadership of the event. She did not want to even take credit for it when a parent who is in PR wrote articles for various news organizations and radio in the region, and she asked them to take out her name as the one who put it all together, though allowed the theater program to name her as "artistic coordinator". Nothing like this had ever been done at our school before. We do have a school that values the arts and in fact, our school musicals each year are very well done, and our music department which is involved in the school musical has won an Grammy Award. The music dept. head who is also the choir teacher is involved in that but that show is directed by an outside person in our community who in fact, has been on Broadway and TV. </p>

<p>The musical my daughter conceived of and produced was performed at the school last Jan. shortly before casting for the regular school musical. It ended up to be quite a success in many respects and was televised on TV, including interviews of the cast. First the kids who were in the show, LOVED it....she made it so that each participant was featured and more than half of them were seniors and for them it was their shining moment before graduating. Many mentioned it in their senior wills in the yearbook. The level of the show was high and more sophisticated in terms of music and choregraphy and contemporary than the norm at our school. The group grew very close by the collaboration, the hard work, and the way that it all fell on their shoulders without any adult help at all, giving them a sense of pride. Surprisingly to me, they all let my daughter direct the entire thing with her vision, accepting her concepts and ideas, even though she was younger than everyone. Parents involved loved it and spoke of this experience for their child. The show itself was very well received in the community with lots of wonderful press and accolades. Some said it was the best show they had ever seen done there. Many were unaware that it was led by a kid, or all student run. Many mentioned hoping that it would become an annual tradition/production there. The Amercian Cancer Society sent a rep to an assembly where my D presented a check and was very taken by these efforts by the students on their own to come up with this and opt to give the money they made away. In every respect, it was a positive experience. My D's guidance counselor says he is in "awe" every time he watches the DVD we gave him of the show. </p>

<p>For my own D, it was a ton of work but a labor of love as she is very passionate about this field and is into creating things. She ended up loving the directing/choreographing end of this field. She would characterize this experience as her proudest accomplishment, particularly when she saw other kids performing numbers she had a vision for and then seeing them carry it out and shine, as well as enjoy themselves. She has even written about it on her current college essays. I have read her recs which have all chosen to comment on this endeavor. One mentions it being the best show he had seen in 25 years there and the inspiration to others who were involved in it and so forth. Another talks of her giving to the community and her leadership and drive with this activity. I have never heard a negative word about it. </p>

<p>While half the kids in the cast graduated, my daughter has been planning since August a new show that she has created for this year, spending countless hours in the planning stage and has contracted with about ten kids to be in it, half from before and half new kids. She has not started rehearsing it yet as she herself is heavily involved in an adult theatrical production 50 miles away that goes up in a few weeks, and will follow with this immediately with a projected show weekend right after the holidays like last year. So, the planning has been going on since August. She has located all the music, no easy feat here in VT, which has included internet orders and even unpublished works that she has obtained from contacts in NYC much to her utter delight. I asked her to go into school and make sure that the dates for the production are on the school calendar so as to save the theater and all. </p>

<p>So, today she did that. She went to tell her chorus teacher who is the music department head to save the date. This teacher hemmed and hawed and said that my D had to talk with the other music (band) teacher but obviously she herself did not want to talk to my D about it at all. Frankly, last year, we got a sense that this teacher was a bit jealous of the entire production with all the attention it garnered and at times was obstructionist (she would call rehearsals at the last min. for select choir, which was basically same kids, so they could not rehearse this show). I have no idea why she felt this way as actually the production was so well received that the community basically would have seen it as a big plus in our music department (some likely even thought the school put it on, not the kids). So, she passed the buck and had my D meet after school today at the last minute with the other music (instrumental) teacher, who knows my D well as she used to be in band and is also in jazz band and has always liked her.</p>

<p>He told her that they were not supportive of her doing this show again this year! When she asked why, he said he had lots of reasons and she made him be more specific (and he said the bad outweighed the good). One reason he had was that apparently the cast did not always put the chairs used for jazz band rehearsals back on stage when they were done rehearsing. Of course, I can see why the jazz band teacher might get irritated (apparently he, who is the third music person on staff, did get mad last year a few times over this the following morning), but honestly such a problem can be rectified by them meeting with the cast this year to go over such expectations for using the stage afterschool. Truly not insurmountable! Then he said that it caused extra work for him and my D could not quite figure that out because she had done it all herself. She recalled twice when she had to go to him to get people to move the piano. And then once when they had a Sunday dress rehearsal and could not get a janitor to open the building but this music teacher had OFFERED to come there that day to be an adult on the premises. Otherwise she did not go to him for anything musically, logistically, lighting or otherwise. And even if she had, I would think that the music staff would be supportive in supervising any such endeavors that the kids had initiated and done on their own. It even showcased our arts program to the community.The kids involved are basically the key participants in our school in select choir and anything musical, including the shows, and things like All States, etc. </p>

<p>To be continued...</p>

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<p>Another reason he gave was that he felt that some of the kids in the cast had an attitude when following their production and it was time to start the school musical production and these kids, who are also the ones who participate in the school musical often in the principal roles, were not keen on the selection of the school musical last year. Now, truthfully this has nothing to do with my D's show and the problems with the kids' attitudes toward the regular musical would have existed even if they had not done this extra show she had created that took place earlier (no overlap on the calendar). The problem ensued when the school chose to put on Wizard of Oz and the kids (and parents) were not thrilled with that selection. While it is a classic and great musical, the kids were beyond it. It is a better choice for a middle school production or a high school that is just starting out a theater program. But the previous year they had done SONDHEIM and a couple years ago, did Cabaret and so kids felt this was a step down in challenge, and then coming off the musical revue with more challenging music/dance most of the key players were in, it really was a letdown of sorts. Another problem was that Wizard of Oz has very few female parts and last year, there were several very talented females, many of them seniors and this seemed like a poor choice of a show to accommodate the talent we had at school last year. So some kids were vocal in their disappointment of the selection but that would have happened regardless if there had been a student run musical beforehand. My D did not love the choice either but enjoyed doing the school show with her friends and played Dorothy and that is a role most young girls would like a turn at once in their lives. The show was actually excellent. I do recall that some of the oldest kids got impatient during rehearsals because the director had cast a LOT of middle schoolers as Munchkins, whereas normally maybe one or two middle schoolers make it into the HS production (given that the MS has their own musical as well). I am not against middle schoolers in the high school production and in fact, when my D was in seventh/eighth grades, she was fortunate to be the only middle schooler cast and played the lead, so I cannot complain. This time he used a LOT of little kids though which affected the feeling for the participants who were 18 in particular. This was not the norm there. But the director himself had a seventh grade daughter, ya see. Again, those attitudes of some of the older kids were ones that should be addressed, if inappropriate, but had nothing to do with the student run cabaret.It is just coincidence that some of those kids were in both shows. In fact, the director of the musical had even called my D up at home during the rehearsal period of Wizard, because he told her that she was a leader and he was asking for her help in talking to some of the oldest kids about their attitude in rehearsals pertaining to the little kids, though remarked she herself was not the problem. I have no idea why the music teacher is linking those issues to the student run cabaret musical as many of the kids happen to be the same, that's all. Today, my D pointed out to him that most of those kids are not even in the school any more because they graduated. He felt that the cabaret group is like a clique but she pointed out that the kids in it happen to all like theater (just like the soccer team all likes soccer) but that in fact, this year's cast are not all friends otherwise at all, and that she cannot see a problem there. She saw no linkage either to her show and anything they were not happy with in the regular musical. The kids overlap, naturally, as these are the kids who do theater/music in the school. </p>

<p>He then told her that he really did not want to support her doing her show this year but would be willing to meet with her PARENTS and see what could be done. My daughter was wondering why in the world would he need to talk to the parents? It is not our show. And in fact, we are appalled that the school would discourage the kids from doing this very worthwhile activity that was seen as very positive by the community and those who participated as well. In fact, I imagine if the other parents of cast members lined up hear that the music department is trying to discourage their show, that they will not be too happy. I have no idea why he needs to meet with us. True, my daughter is the one who has been the initiator/creator/leader but we have nothing to do with the show. Also her GC and teacher rec writers had such enormous praise for this endeavor. I can't see why the music folks are against it. Here we have kids who are putting their heart and soul and countless hours into preparing a show, collaborating, leading, organizing, community service, performing, applying music skills, rather than going home after school and getting into trouble....how can faculty NOT support such things? I mean my D has been investigating college BFA programs and one thing that has attracted her to several programs is how students have run their own musicals in addition to mainstage productions and she has written to schools about her "fit" for those schools in terms of having done this in the past and wanting to contribute in such ways in college. Now, we have her HS trying to keep her from doing it. She has already devoted many hours to planning this show. </p>

<p>She told me she felt like she was being reprimanded for something that had in fact, been one of her proudest achievements. I can see if the music faculty had some reservations but they could have approached it as....we want to support your show but we do need to iron out some things ahead of time, rather than come across as being unsupportive and trying to discourage my D from going further with her plans. To me, their job is to encourage such efforts! Something is really wrong here. </p>

<p>She came out of the school telling me she no longer will be doing the show even though she has invested a great deal in it to date and had plans in place for the next few weeks to get it off the ground as soon as her current show ends. (I have even laid out money for it). She said even if they let her do it, there will be a resentment on their end and they will not make it easy and she says she has to work with them as the music head is her teacher as well, who she does get along with. She sees no reason for us to be asked to meet with them either. I am not sure what will be with that or what will happen when parents of other participants hear that the music staff is not supporting it. I think at the least at some point, I should politely express my disappointment at their discouraging what was a very positive endeavor on the part of the students that was so well received by the entire community, let alone the initiative involved. It is like they are getting in the way of something good going on here. </p>

<p>Another thought that instead of totally shelving it (and I know my D was looking forward to it as were all the kids), is to see if our local community theater will let them use their theater space after school which is in our town and the school bus goes by it, which is not quite as convenient as staying after school and kids do come from a 20 mile radius but maybe it would work for parents to get their kids afterwards. I have no idea if they can get the theater without paying to use it (though may be able to afford it with proceeds, though it seats far less than our school theater), and if they would let kids use it with liability and all. They know her there as she has been in their adult productions. That way, school would have nothing to do with it. I hate to see this baby die. It is something many kids benefitted from. I hate to see her kick it in at this juncture though time is of essence as the production would have to start rehearsing as soon as she is done her other show, and still have time to put it on in Jan. before casting the school musical commences. </p>

<p>to be continued....</p>

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<p>Wow! I don't blame you for venting. In fact, I am amazed that you could be so restrained.</p>

<p>What a perfect example of "No good deed goes unpunished"!</p>

<p>Is it possible for your daughter to move the event into the community and not have to rely on the high school for administrative support? I would bet that there's a community organization that would be delighted to assist young people who are working so hard to do something wonderful.</p>

<p>Best of luck! I know this is frustrating! The silver lining is that your D will have a heckuva college essay that she can write on this. As she finds a solution, she'll also have developed even more amazing skills that she'll use for the rest of her life.</p>

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<p>part three...</p>

<p>I have no idea what to advise but am just sharing this story as it really irks me to see a school stand in the way of some good things going on with kids. On top of that, the production brought pride to the department, I would think. It was one of the highlights in our school last year, a rough year that included the near dismissal of the most beloved faculty member, our guidance counselor, but instead involved our principal resigning...a lot of upheaval here. Sometimes ya gotta wonder. Last year, my daughter won two state scholarship awards, one for voice (classical) and one for jazz (only vocalist) and at All States at the presentation they even said that no child has ever won in two categories....and besides that our school had two of the three jazz winners....certainly great recognition to our little school....and the school never really publicized it like they do other things...you would think the music faculty would relish at the attention this would garner for the school. In fact, I recall afterwards that the jazz teacher in jazz improv class that had only about five kids in it, which included my D and the other state jazz winner (he on trumpet), remarked to the class about how "unfair the judging was" in the jazz category as his daughter did not win (she is a jazz vocalist but also sax player) and these two kids looked at each other and started to wonder if he realized he was saying this to the two kids who won!</p>

<p>I dunno sometimes.....I sometimes think that schools like ours have a hard time dealing with kids who excel at something. In reading my D's GC rec, he talks of the "roadblocks" she has incurred at the school since seventh grade in her education given her "giftedness" and I guess we can chalk this one up as one more. I imagine when he gets wind of the music staff trying to keep her show from being done this year, he will be very upset! </p>

<p>I am sorry this is so long but I had to get it out somewhere and you guys are the best. If you have thoughts to share on it or any advice, I'd love to hear it. Not sure at the moment where to go with this. She has so much going on with schoolwork, college applications, college audition prep and extracurriculars, and is also involved 23 hours per week in a high level production that has her out of the house round the clock, and then was putting together the plans for this show she created. I hate to see her have to throw in the towel. I don't get the reasoning at all. I don't get how you can take motivated kids and then discourage them like this. </p>

<p>Thanks for reading.
I know I make students edit their college essays and here I wrote this long long vent but I am being too lazy and tired to edit it so I hope those who are against long posts, just opt to skip this one. Thanks for letting me spill.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Soozievt..
The capper will come at the awards evening at the end of the year when the less creative, ambitious, motivated kid who "played by the book" wins the award instead of your child...</p>

<p>It has been my experience (not in performing arts, in general) that some teachers(as well as others!) are resistant to ideas that they have not generated when it comes to new initiatives. I am not sure if it is because they perceive it as extra work for themselves, they are jealous of the attention that an energetic idea can produce, they are worried about their own jobs if they are outplayed in an area that is their specialty-- there can be any number of reasons. </p>

<p>My son is having a similar experience as he is trying to introduce a student judiciary at his school. Virtually the only students not on board are the ones on student council. He has support from an array of teachers, but not those who are advisors to the council etc. He likes a good "discussion" so he is persisting with this. I haven't told him that I was told last year by the person in charge of activities that he had not received the end of award as the "top contributor" to the school community last year specifically because he sometimes goes outside of the usual channels and doesn't always play within the very arbitrary rules that are established. </p>

<p>So, while creativity and initiative are theoretically the goals of the educational process, the kids are told in a backhand way that this is true only if you "walk the walk." </p>

<p>Is this a "pick your battle" situation for your daughter? Is it "worth it" to fight the fight? I think these are the first questions she has to answer...and really only she can answer.</p>

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<p>Susan - My first thought was that doing Sondheim always throws a music department out of whack. <grin></grin></p>

<p>Actually, I like the idea of investigating the community theatre as a venue, though that may raise the resentment level of the school music staff members even further. But given their unwillingness to accomodate your D, I don't see how they could complain. And maybe those nice, straight lines of chairs will be enough to keep them happy.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom,
You likely posted when I was putting up my additional parts of my post but as you can see, we did suggest to our D that perhaps rather than bag her show plans, just move it to outside the school. I hate to see her throw in the towel after all the work she already had devoted to it and also because she enjoyed doing it so much as did all the other kids who also will be let down when they hear this as they all committed to it a while back when she sent out commitment letters. They have not done any work on it yet, though she sure has. She was already saying she is not doing it anymore as she does not want to pursue it if they are going to make her life difficult there with all she has on her plate as it is. Most would be amazed she is even undertaking this with all else she has going on, with college applications and auditions at 8 schools coming up as well, and is in other ECs too. She is even entering a national arts competition this week that we have to fit in during lunch period. She says this will free her up but I know she had no intentions of not doing the show until this meeting unexpectedly after school today. </p>

<p>As far as college essays, three apps will have gone in by tomorrow, so far. This experience was not the sole focus of any one particular essay but was part of one of the many essays I have seen her write, as one vignette within a larger whole. She also orchestrated a musical "teach-in" on peace last year that was mentioned in the same essay I saw this mentioned in. But it all tied into other themes/points in that essay. I doubt she will write about the obstacle that happened today. I have no idea how many essays are left to write...I think she has written at least six so far. Now that I think about it, there was one college essay about some obstacle you faced and she kept saying she had never faced one (ha ha....look at today)....but ended up writing a very poignant (to me) essay to do with her older sister having left for college recently and how it changed the dynamics of their sisterhood and how it has affected her. I doubt she will write about what happened today. But come to think about it, my other daughter who just graduated, had initiated two policy endeavors as a senator at school and met with many obstacles in that two year journey and did write about that on one of her Princeton app essays that she entitled "Driving Down the Path of Most Resistance". Might be apt in your son's case too!</p>

<p>Roby.....she certainly is not into "fighting" it at school. That type of scenario is not appealing to her as she says she still has to work with them....they are teachers of hers and then next semester is the school musical which they are involved in and I imagine she will be cast in some significant capacity. It is really too bad. I hope maybe this can just happen outside the confines of school. </p>

<p>Yes, many in the school are not fans of those who think outside the box. Our GC also thinks outside the box and has been a wonderful advocate for this child there to have her learning needs met over the years. Often creative types like this are not revered by certain types of teachers. I think some either love her or hate her. I think the music staff likes her, however, so this is rather odd. I don't think it is about her, per se. </p>

<p>I applaud your son's initiative as well. </p>

<p>I think my D felt a bit crushed today to have such a negative response to something she had felt such pride in. I guess it is good that she is moving on from this school after all, which was her dire wish.
Susan</p>

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<p>Reid, I have to smile at the Sondheim remark!</p>

<p>Actually your post just now is quite helpful to me as it gave me another idea. I already mentioned that she should investigate the local community theater's theater and if that could be worked out. Again, it is not as easy for the kids as it is not like staying after school and you have to realize the rural nature of this area and that kids come from six towns to attend this school and the theater I am speaking of is in one of the town's (ours) but I still think since they could get there via school bus, maybe parents could pick up as there would be no bus home to their towns. </p>

<p>But you just reminded me of another idea. Last June, when my daughter conceived of and produced this musical "teach in" on peace as a civics project, she got another local venue to allow her to use their space for her event for free.....it is a place where they have theater space though her event was in a performance "lounge" but this venue was so thrilled with this event and how it was all student run (it was just run by her but many students attended and helped out or performed as well, and many in the community came)...they kept telling her if she ever wanted to come back and do anything youth oriented in the future, she was more than welcome. Now, reading your post made me recall this and they do have one space in the complex that is a theater though I am not sure the stage is big enough for dance numbers but still this is also off the main drag here where a school bus would pass by afterschool. If they would let her rehearse there, I do not know but it is not open normally at that time of day. It is worth looking into. I don't much see what the school could say if they take it out of school but I don't see it as solving their "concern" that the kids involved felt like a clique to them. I have no clue how that is different than "select choir" which is pretty much the same kids anyway, and a group run by the music teacher. You could say the varsity soccer team is a clique too! It is more of that mentality of let's not set apart the kids who excel in any fashion from the rest. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Susan
You've said it yourself, "It is more of that mentality of let's not set apart the kids who excel in any fashion from the rest". Some teachers resented the extra work--putting back chairs, coming in weekends--others resented the talent--the jazz teacher, whose child suffered in comparison. Choosing "Wizard..." without any discussion is another case in point, to make kids feel like kids, not young adults.
I can't comment if it is worth it to pursue the community theater, with all the time demands that would place on your DTR. Her life is so full, and she'll be travelling a lot for college interviews. It would definitely build even more resentment among the teachers. I'm glad she's applying early for college; she's outgrown her HS.</p>

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<p>Susan, This story is utterly outrageous. I must say though--beyond your daughter's hard work and generosity and talent, what I also admire is the aplomb with which she handled the discussions with the obstructionist faculty/staff. And I agree that she ought to take this show on the road, so to speak. It's possible, too, that once the parents of the cast and crew members hear that they're going to have to be inconvenienced by the school's recalcitrance, I would think that the principal is suddenly going to be getting a lot of phone calls...</p>

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<p>Susan, I would urge you to encourage her to do the production outside school in the community theatre even if it is smaller. And not use the school's resources at all if your daughter can. I think I understand some of this...not from the school's angle but why the teachers are putting up roadblocks. Had a similar experience with my son although in a different arena.</p>

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<p>Easy to say that the answer is to follow your daughter's lead. I think that is what hits me out of these descriptions. Its clear that the school administration sees this project as not worth it to them, and they will not like it if you try to run over them to do it. Being in the right won't help you.</p>

<p>The reason they want to meet with you is that they are fearful of your daughter( and her determination and popularity?). This is a bit melodramatic as a comment, but one of the worst things you can do for yourself is to cause others to fear you. Especially if you do it inadvertently.</p>

<p>My advice would be to follow your daughters lead. She's in that world every day and has a better sense of when to hold and when to fold than you do. Plus she bears the risks and costs.</p>

<p>Sorry about the non-uplifting advice, but it comes from a purely pragmatic viewpoint. And yes, I'd probably have a lot of difficulty taking this advice myself.</p>

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<p>I understand and truly sympathize. My son is facing obstructionist administrators in his efforts to recreate a county robotics teams from the ashes of a tiny team from last year. They just don't want to permit him to have the leadership even though they are not willing to put it together themselves. It's almost as if they are afraid of a student getting more credit for the achievement than they will get. Perhaps that may be a touch of what's happening were you are. Incidentally, we are in a school system similar in size to yours, one where the high school looks with pride on the fact that so many of its teachers graduated from that same high school (shudder).</p>

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<p>Susan, I feel for you, your daughter, and her peers. Unfortunately, as other posters have already mentioned, this kind of prejudicial treatment isn't unique to your school alone. The "educators" at your D's school should be these students' biggest cheerleaders, not their antagonists. I think it's one more instance of the "dumbing down" culture in our educational system- heaven forbid we should let the cream rise to the top! I'd vote for the community-based production, if it's do-able and something your D can do without any intolerable consequences. Maybe she and the other participants might even be too busy to perform in the HS's production!</p>

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<p>Susan, doing the production in the community sounds like a great idea. In our hs there is trouble every time anybody wants to do something for free that is already being done in some way by paid folks...Especially in the arts, where they are always fighting for their line item in the budget, they are always at risk of looking dispensable and are therefore at times territorial. I understand that your d's production made the performing arts look good, but that's what would happen in our school. Would be great for her to think about the possible politics behind the "reprimand" and use all her energy to put on a great production in the community theater.</p>

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<p>It doesn't make sense to e either. Shouldnt adults be involved in educating children because they are excited about helping them attain new heights of learning?
My youngest was in a school that had originally many exciting programs that were supported by teachers and administration. Over the years however, the teachers transferred out, aged and burnt out of supporting these programs and the parents took over. Now however most of the programs have all but disappeared as the teachers are activity working to cut anything from the program that is not directly seen as influencing NCLB test scores. Not that the test scores have gone up, but I suppose the teachers have been brainwashed into thinking that more time spent will eventually mean better scores.
It is sad to see a good school lose its history, but glad I don't have to do tours of prospective students, last year as parent board chair, I was stuck leading tours even though I repeatedly told administration" you don't want me doing this, it isn't the school it is reputed to be, and I am not going to lie"</p>

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<p>Has your daughter talked to the principal? The district superintendent? The facilities don't belong to the music department! They belong to the taxpayers.</p>

<p>Has she written a letter to the newspaper explaining that facilities aren't being made available at the school and she's hoping some organization will step up? It might embarrass the school into cooperating.</p>

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<p>dmd77--unfortunately, especially in a small rural system, trying that sort of thing can often cause more harm than good. These people are often very insular--very "good-old-boy- and girl" and going over heads can elicit hostility from not only the people within the school but even from the county people. It is, in fact, the county people who have obstructed our son's efforts to recreate the robotics team for all the schools here. I think the idea of making the production a community, non-school effort is probably more realistic at this point. If the OP's school is as taken with itself as our son's is, then she probably will hit a brick wall with any further efforts to work within the system.</p>

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<p>All of your input is valuable and thoughtful, thanks. </p>

<p>Dadx....we are surely following our daughter's lead, I can assure you. You don't see me running into school today. My daughter even said she does not see the need or reason why the music teacher said he wanted to meet with her parents about this as she does not want us to. Yeah I could run to the principal but am not. For one thing, I will do what my daughter wants with it. I hate to see her just say that she is no longer doing the show. I also wonder what will be when other parents find this out. At some point, I will politely mention to these folks my disappointment at the lack of support for what was a positive experience for both the participants and community last year and for squelching this student initiative. She provided a theater opportunity for kids in the "off months" when there is none going on. Even for herself, she craves always working on a show and otherwise would not have one for two months. This is what she does. If you had seen some of the pride for some kids last year who never get solos in the school musical to then have some big solo moments on stage in her production (as I said, she featured each kid in it, not herself) and the sophistication of the music/dance really appealed to the kids. Many have set aside those two months this year in their EC calendar. Anyway, I can make suggestions to my daughter but ultimately it is her decision. </p>

<p>Bookworm, you are right that my daughter feels in several ways that she has outgrown the school. She is ready to move on and wrote a statement regarding her early graduation to each college, and her GC spoke to all that in his report as well. As far as college auditions, the way this musical cabaret was scheduled only overlaps one college audition trip (the closest school actually). The big problem will be this winter when she has the other 7 college audition trips to make and the issues that will cause with the school musical, her dance studio, etc.....but she has to go to the colleges! And yes, her life is more than full without her directing this musical and she has even said how not doing it would free her up but I know inside she craved doing the show and has been squeezing in her creative planning in car rides and whenever she could as she is maxxed out time wise at the moment on other things, particularly having taken on an adult production far away currently. But she loves the creation process and then when it came up to actually doing this a month from now (starting rehearsing), she would love that too. I know the other kids will be disappointed. It is not like the teacher told her "no" but it sounds as if he was not into them doing it again and she hesitates to discuss it much further if they are going to make it difficult for them. </p>

<p>SearchingAvalon....yes, I think my D handled this unexpected discussion yesterday well. She was not argumentative, yet persisted with her point of view. She happens to come across verbally MUCH older than she truly is.</p>

<p>Achat and CtyMom....yep, it is just another roadblock experience. The more I think about it, it is truthfully just one more for her at that school. It has been a challenge with her there since the seventh grade. Her GC wrote about how her entire school career there had been a series of educational roadblocks that then involved creativity, thought and a willingness to change public education to meet the needs of a truly gifted child. He wrote about how she drove others to create positive educational opportuntities. I must say that HE was a huge advocate for her when educational accommodations have had to be made. He was one who never said, "this has never been done here" and just was into finding a way and persuading other faculty to create the appropriate educational opportunities that she needed. Thinking back now, I can think of enormous roadblocks and obstructionist things by various people there each year for this child. Thankfully, some have been terrific. Even her math plans this year met with a roadblock but our GC got them to let her do it and she is exceling at with the current plan in that area. My other D met with roadblocks as well and I am glad she is out and thriving at Brown. In fact, I won't bore you with another story other than to say that she was interested in following through on her second policy initiative that was not finalized by the school board before she graduated but she had put a lot of work into it and wrote them before she left for college and just NOW got an email back from them that also IRKS me so much and they put a stop to the whole initiative that was close to passing according the principal before she graduated and some of the things in that letter really are bothersome. But I told her that she was out now, exceling so far at Brown, and while it is disappointing to see her efforts squashed back at her high school (though her first policy was passed by the school board) and that she should find satisfaction in that she made a difference there on the first policy and had tried hard on the second one but at this point, she has moved on and should just look ahead and be happy she is done there and is loving her college so much and it is night and day to her high school. She was still trying to make a difference there even being off at college which I find admirable. It is not like she initiated or led that policy stuff to look good for college....rather she cared so much about affecting change there that she kept the communication going with the school board after graduating to see it through. I imagine she is going to be ripped when she hears of the latest roadblock with her sister at school. On the other hand, you learn a lot from these situations and there is college ahead and they can move onto bigger and better things. Just gotta get through this high school first, lol. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Soozievt,
Well, why don't you meet with the music people, other parents and administration? You are very eloquent on this forum, why not say it to them? I know it's much easier for teachers to turn down students but when parents come out in force, it's a different story. It might be easier to have a frank talk without your daughter there. jmho.</p>