Parent Concern Over School's Support of Extracurricular Project

Parents Forum
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<p>dmd, I posted before reading your post as well as some others as I was on a call before I pushed "send"...but now read other posts. She could talk to the principal, yes. I don't know yet if she wants to PUSH it because she said yesterday that she might just fold the show because she has to work with these people at school and if they end up resentful or not supportive, it won't be too great. We happen to have a brand new principal who likely has no idea of this let alone what was done last year. I won't get into the ORDEAL our school went through last year that ultimately led to our principal's resignation. That principal, however, supported my daughter's initiative to do her student-run musical. As I said, I have only heard positive feedback from anyone until now. My D said that the teacher did not say a flat out "no" and in fact, suggested a meeting with her parents (still do not get that) but made it pretty clear he was not keen on the idea and discouraged it. I will see how this plays out and as mentioned before, I am not going to go in and "fight" it but would be honest in my disappointment over this situation, as it was done once with success. I can't imagine what our GC will say when he hears of this. I am going to see what happens next for now. She can't put off any decision much longer as she was about to record a CD for the cast members and needs to move plans along so she can being immediately following her other show ending and has very very limited hours to devote to this at the moment. It was all on course but any lull now will be hard to recover from given the timing. The show has to be put on in early Jan. so that it is over before auditions for the school musical (involves same kids). She is already starting rehearsals later than last year only cause of her enormous time commitment out of town for the adult production she is in. In about two weeks, she will be in that city almost round the clock for 8 days and no time will be going into this, let alone homework and college apps. She hardly has time to deal with any big "to do" right now. She had no idea this was going to happen and was only confirming the date officially (or so she thought). I am sure they knew she was putting on the show as kids are talking about it already. </p>

<p>I hope she will consider looking into doing it outside of school though am not sure yet if that is doable regarding the space and liability and so forth. It is not like she would be putting it on via our community theater but more of using their theater space. </p>

<p>I do think at some point the principal should know. I am going to wait and see what happens now. I am going to be there tomorrow during the school day, it so happens, because I am filming my daughter's audition for a national arts award during her lunch time and was there last week doing the same (half of it) and even was talking to these people and am sure I will be running into them as I will be right in their department. They may even say something to me given that they mentioned wanting to talk to her parents! To me, even asking to talk to her parents undermines the fact that this was a student run endeavor. My guess is that perhaps he KNOWS that we would not be happy to have this endeavor called off and my guess is he is going to allow it but has lots of reservations. But really that is between those teachers and the cast members, not us. And honestly, I am wondering what will happen when the other parents/kids get wind of this. For now, I am sitting back. I don't think my daughter should be quick to throw in the towel because her heart was so into this project (she truly loved the creative process it involved on her end) and I hate to see her have to give up the main thing she does for two months for no good reason. Ultimately I will see what she wants to do about it. I think looking into doing it outside of school might be one way to go because like she says, even if the school lets her do it, if they are going to make her uncomfortable, it won't be worth it. But yes, it is really just the music department teachers who said no.....not sure why they should speak for the school as it truly does not DIRECTLY involve them as it is all student run (other than that they will be using the stage)....really she could just go to the principal for permission as she did last year with the old principal. I'll be curious what, if anything, transpired today at school informally.</p>

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<p>A dear friend gave me advice (long before my children even started highschool), that schools (especially public highschools) are all about STATUS QUO. I only half listened at the time, but came to a better understanding once my own children started their highschool experience. Almost every question or suggestion (or complaint) made by the parents (or through the PTA), is answered with a comment similar to: " We can't change it because...." or "We do it this other way because...." Suggestions are rarely if ever received with an open mind. We have often found that to get things done, we just forge ahead and ignore the naysayers. But, having a back-up group (such as the PTA) helps. Perhaps by the school asking to meet with the parents, you can turn it around to your advantage? If the other parents are as angry as you, the school might reconsider.</p>

<p>I must admit, however, that my first reaction to your vent was to think perhaps this is her "blessing in disguise". If she truly has so much on her plate right now, perhaps it is her sign that now is not the best time. Only she (with your guidance) can answer that one of course.</p>

<p>I think we all have a lesson to learn from your experience. How much richer the world would be if we only stop periodically and ask "what if?" instead of using the old and tired line "It can't be done". It sounds like your daughter already knows this wonderful philosophy!</p>

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<p>Kathie...I agree with what you are saying overall. The tricky part comes in when your child says, "don't go in about this" or I see no reason for them to meet with my parents. I have been at this point before. She knows when I go in, I try to act professional about it as I was a teacher myself. She just does not want any "waves" and part of her is still "young" even though she comes across as older and I think shudders at the idea of a parent going in. The thing is, he asked for her parents to come in. I agree with her about that was odd in this case. I know she does not want her dad to go in because she feels he will say something or be upset and it is a fine line when you go into school. I like to think I tow that line fairly and don't get emotional but I do feel something should be said. I would be honest about it. I also think that when the GC hears about it, he won't be quiet about it because he was SO into this endeavor. People have asked her if she was doing it again this year. In fact, come to think about it, her essays and resume even have that she was going to be doing another show this year after the success of last year. There was never any question about it until now. Oy. Never a smooth ride there. It is always something at school. I won't be missing this when she goes to college. There are some good things at our school (actually the music and the shows are a strength there) and some good people, and then there have been some pretty negative experiences as well. I am glad one of my kids got to move on and this one will soon too. I hate seeing the school stand in the way of her growth and interest area, however. They are supposed to provide opportunities, not squelch them. Thankfully, a great deal of her opportunities have been outside of school. We also have been great supporters of the music program at our school with both kids and they have exceled in that department and are heavily involved in various aspects of it be it band, jazz band, chorus, select choir, theory, music tech,and the musicals and have received state recognition that looks good for our school. The staff there knows us and we have been quite supportive, I like to think. But as I said, this child has met with numerous roadblocks at this school in her education as she has not been the "norm" in any area. It is not smooth sailing with a kid like this in a school like this. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>kjo...you are so right. At school, she and my other daughter were met often with "it can't be done" or "we have never done this before" and both needed accomodations made for their education being "gifted" types for lack of a better word. They met with roadblocks a lot but thankfully our GC is an advocate and also THINKS OUTSIDE THE BOX and is known for that and he was a force in making things happen...whether it was taking high school courses in middle school or indep. studies and much else, he worked to make it happen. </p>

<p>My kids do tend to be movers and shakers. The younger one in particular. The world needs people who create, initiate, and lead and don't just follow the status quo. I can think of a song my D sings in her select cabaret troupe at her summer program out of state and the lyrics go something like: "we are the movers, we are the shapers, we are the lines in tomorrow's papers"....and that is so her. </p>

<p>My other daughter affected change in this school by creating a policy and having it passed for others to benefit who follow her. Also the accomodations that were made for first daughter have benefitted other gifted learners who have come afterwards, including her younger sister. At the time these accomodations were made back in middle school there, we told them that our D was not unique and that such accomodations might be needed by other kids later on and in fact, had one younger kid in our own family who would need similar academic acommodations...and in fact, lots of kids have since benefitted from some of the things my kids did "first" there and it is a very satisfying feeling to see others get this due to our advocacy for such learners. Many parents have thanked me along the way and parents whom I don't know have called and asked how we did it with our older child there. I like to work WITH schools and not against them but also am not afraid to advocate. I am not sure in this latest instance what, if any, my involvement will be. I have to consider my D's feelings foremost on the matter. I can discuss it with her. As it was, she was out until 11 PM last night at rehearsal out of town so we never got too far on this unexpected turn of events. </p>

<p>Yes, her life will be easier to not do this show....and she was looking at that positive aspect but I know deep down she wanted to do it and had no plans of giving it up until this transpired and she already has put a great deal into writing the show, locating music around the country and what not. </p>

<p>The weird thing is, this is not like a "first attempt" to do this show as they already did it last year successfully, which is what I don't get. I don't think any "problems" that these music staff felt were insurmountable and should have just involved a discussion with the kids involved. I also don't quite see why the music staff even truly needs to have a say in the matter. It is basically a school "club" and they are not supervising it per se. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>"I also don't quite see why the music staff even truly needs to have a say in the matter. It is basically a school "club" and they are not supervising it per se." </p>

<p>As I said above, I suspect that may be precisely the problem. It certainly would be at our hs. I am not defending that, just suggesting that a bit of political savvy might be helpful here.</p>

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<p>Aparent, you are right on the political savvy. That is why my D does not want to "fight" it as she has to work with these people, and would not be into going "over their heads", which I am not either, but was just remarking above. She normally says that these folks "love" her so I am not sure just what is going on here. I will wait and see what happens. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>I think aparent5 has it, soozievt. Your daughter did it without them and she did it better. That's death, at least it would be around here. I know how frustrated you must be, but maybe you'll be stuck trying to look beyond the small-minded world of high school, as we are. We will be SO relieved next year!</p>

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<p>Soozie:</p>

<p>A possibility would be to ask the music dept staff to be more involved rather than marginalized. Your D and her friends could present what has been done so far as the result of not wanting to create more work for the teachers; still she and her friends would appreciate their guidance and want to make sure that they do not create scheduling conflicts, etc... Instead of not wanting to be bothered, it is possible the teachers would be gratified to be asked, and might want to keep this going after your D graduates.
While it is possible to find an alternative venue for shows, in a small town, it is useful to keep the school as the focus of as many community activities as possible.</p>

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<p>Looks like classic NIH (Not Invented Here) Syndrome. "I didn't come up with this idea, therefore, I'll fight it tooth and nail."</p>

<p>Do you have any insider contacts that would let you find out if there's something else going on here, e.g., an administrator or board member who got bent out of shape the preceding year, or perhaps some other reason that is uncomfortable to divulge?</p>

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<p>Susan, My first thought on reading this story: Thank God she's getting out of that school a year early.</p>

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<p>Susan,
my nephew - currently at Cleveland Institute of Music - had a similar experience in HS. His solution was to manage the situation so that the teachers, administrators, and so on looked good. As it turned out, they looked better if he directed the pit band.</p>

<p>My recommendation is to sit back and read a Jane Austin novel. Why? Because her heroines typically had no actual power, but managed things well anyway. </p>

<p>If you daughter goes into production as a career, her work will consist of nudging here, instructing there and changing cranky enemies into collaborators. If she has time, she find that developing a solution to this problem is useful artistically and as an excercise in human relations.</p>

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<p>My kids and their friends have been involved in many wonderful student-run productions, typically involving both schooled and homeschooled children. </p>

<p>Performance venues have included: a stage at a local arts center, a stage at the local Y, a community college auditorium, outdoor park stages, a stage at a local synagogue, a converted barn, and a performance space in a public library. Each of these spaces has presented challenges and opportunities for creative problem-solving and resourcefulness on the part of the youthful directors and their collaborative troupes.</p>

<p>Scheduling rehearsals is often a challenge given the busy and conflicting schedules of the students--some in high school, some in middle school, some homeschooled, some have part-time jobs, some taking local college courses part-time, and all of them have other extracurricular commitments, etc. Some are driving, some are not. The troupes are often quite farflung, so carpooling is almost always a given.</p>

<p>Even so, I've seen these student-run productions come off amazingly when the students are given support and encouragement to take ownership of the enterprise.</p>

<p>The students assume total creative control.</p>

<p>However, for legal and liability reasons, there always needs to be some adult taking responsibility for chaperone-type supervision. </p>

<p>Even with the best will in the world on the part of the students, things can happen at unsupervised rehearsals which could have serious liability issues for the facility. </p>

<p>Examples of things I've seen that can go wrong at rehearsals and/or performances (whether student or adult directed/produced): an actor had a seizure on stage during a rehearsal (fortunately he was nowhere near the edge of the stage and in no danger of falling, and was fine in the end), an actor who was part of a group of "knights" charging across a stage floor in a battle scene fell and hurt her arm (fortunately she was fine), plastic and wooden prop swords have broken in the middle of staged swordfights (with pieces flying out hapharzardly, potentially injuring actors or nearby audience members--fortunately nobody was hurt), actors trip while scrambling up rickety stage steps to get back on stage after a quick costume change before a tight cue, actors have gotten stung by bees at outdoor rehearsals (and some of them are allergic and have epipens, etc.)</p>

<p>For all these reasons (and many other potential disaster scenarios I can imagine must be on the minds of administrators), I always expect that any organization allowing the use of its facility will insist that (A) an adult willing to take responsibility must be on-site at all times--if only as a chaperone and (B) appropriate liability waivers/insurance riders must be in force.</p>

<p>A student performance produced and directed by school employees will typicallyl be covered under a school's liability policy. </p>

<p>I would expect that the school's insurance carrier would have major issues about a student-run production unless there is a responsible adult on-site. (Depending on the exact wording of the policy, that adult might have to be a school district employee, but some policies may allow for adult community volunteers as well.)</p>

<p>Some community performance facilities have required that the parents of all actors sign liability waivers. </p>

<p>Most facilities have required that one adult agree to accept overall responsibility and that that parent must get a rider on their homeowners' liability policy to cover the performances. (I've been pleasantly surprised to learn that this sort of thing is indeed covered by a typical homeowners' policy without additional charge, as long as the performance is not a business-type operation but rather an occasional children's acitivty. Our insurance agent is happy to fax a one-page document assuring a community performance facility that our homeowners policy will cover the liability associated with a production directed by one of my children, just as they would cover the liability if the performance were held at our home. Our agent likened the situation to a family renting a hall for a daughter's wedding--apparently some facilities also require a similar document for that sort of thing.)</p>

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<p>ohio_mom: very well said. I was just going to give the solution...let her manage her rachers, administrators and so on so that they could look good too! It's a hard lesson to learn at such a young age, but one that will be invaluable for the future. We as adults may be very much aware of the politics involved, but the young mind will have to learn on one's own. Read that Jan Austen novel!</p>

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<p>Marite, your suggestion to get the music dept. more involved so they were not marginalized is a sound one but actually his "complaint" was that it involved too much of his time (not sure how much really but that is what he is saying). He had offered to come in one Sunday to supervise having an adult on site. He had appeared quite supportive last year. The music department head ended up managing the bank account because she wanted to. I actually think the music dept. came out of this looking good as many would have assumed they sponsored it as a school show, not that it was all derived from the kids. I am not sure they WANT to be more involved. </p>

<p>Roger, I am not clear if there is any other "agenda" going on. As far as the principal/administration....the principal who did support it has left and this one likely has no inkling about any of this. School board? I can't say....there was ENORMOUS upheaval at our school last year, unrelated to this. </p>

<p>My daughter got the feeling that the music person felt that this group was "elitist" though he did not use that word itself but implied it. He kept using "clique" for these kids involved in the theatrical stuff. They did grow close in this collaborative work but are not necessarily all friends outside of these endeavors....and actually half the cast has graduated so it is different kids partly anyway. My daughter has invited kids to be in the cast who she is not friends with but who are talented and interested in musical theater. I would say she is only close to about three kids who are to be in this cast, outside of theater stuff. </p>

<p>Homeschoolmom, I hear you on liability issues. In fact, when it was at school, we knew that an adult had to be on the premises in terms of "supervision" for liability reasons. While they kids worked independently there were adults around in the music department adjoining the theater/auditorium. And as I said, when they went in on a couple weekends, adults were present. In fact, I am thinking that the reason he says it was too much work for him is because he felt that an adult was needed to be available or on the premises though they are there after school anyway, not sure what he meant, nor did my D understand why he felt it was additional work for him. And because I agree with you, I am wondering if it is even feasible to use the local theater space because of the liability that likely would arise. </p>

<p>Sgio...as far as her managing the adults involved so they look good, I kinda think that is exactly what happened last year...the whole school and department looked good in the press, etc. The music department head even manned the ticket table with me at the performances and likely took in plenty of glory. I could tell that most unfamiliar with the production had NO idea my daughter had created this show or directed it. The playbill said it was student run but she purposely took her name out of ALL publicity as she did not want the glory at all. She reluctantly allowed her name in the program as artistic coordinator or music director or choreographer. To any who heard it was student run, most thought it was from all students and again, many assumed it was the school who ran it basically. I am just wondering if the way the show was so good if that was uncomfortable for those staff or just what. When the kids rumbled over the choice of Wizard of Oz.....yeah it felt like a let down after this (though honestly the production was top notch). But their let down would have happened anyway with the choice of that particular musical, I am positive. I recall on the TV when the showed this production, they also interviewed the cast at intermission and when the TV person asked what was next after this, they may have mentioned hoping it was an annual tradition from now on but also mentioned that the next show was going to be Wizard of Oz as the school musical and one girl who happens to be a vocal person (love her though), blurted out that they were not too happy that the show was going to be Wizard of Oz and so that looked rather negative, thus contributing to this "attitude" that this music teacher is saying about the kids. She was very blunt on that interview, though my daughter looked like she was trying to dull the sharpness of that comment and then told the TV audience that everyone should come see Wizard of Oz as it was going to be great, etc. The teacher's comments yesterday focused on this attitude about Wizard by the cabaret cast (who as I mentioned are pretty much the kids who ended up in the principal roles in the school musical being the best talent in the school and the kids most interested in theater) and he linked the issues they had with the kids/parents displeasure over the choice of musical to my D's cabaret musical where she sees no linkage. That seemed to be a big point of his from what she has relayed. </p>

<p>There is a sense in this situation, as I have come across elsewhere, that here we have "select" kids and then others feel badly or some such. This is not the first time I have run into that type of thinking. </p>

<p>I'll let ya know if I hear anything else. I got the feeling that he was not saying no if he was asking to meet with her parents. She felt he all but stopped short of "no". She was ready to throw in the towel I think because she does not want a big hassle. She is into working together, not against and also does not want to deal with resentments with teachers she must work with daily as well as on the upcoming school musical, as this is her main thing in her life. I just wish the school could be happy to have such motivation, collaboration, talent and drive to do excellent worthwhile activities, rather than stand in the way to this degree. Last year, the principal told my D "whatever you want, it's yours". I don't recall any problem with the show. I doubt this principal even knows what is going on as he is new. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>SUSAN: I did not mean to trivialize what your daughter has been experiencing. I am one of those parent whose children was identified as "gifted and Talented" and had to suffer through four years of heckling until he was thankful that he could graduate. I am the parent that wrote a whole expose on the plight of the gifted child several weeks ago. I am the parent that believes that the public school system sometimes needs to "dumb down" high school programming so that everyone looks good and no one ever shines! Lest someone's self-esteem gets shattered! I am the parent that believes that some high schools thrive on mediocrity and by having some one or several children excel serves to suggest that somehow others are being neglected or underserved. Our high schools unfortunately have no real understanding of what the "real" world is all about!!!! Not every will succeed in the business world or elsewwhere. You will not be given several times to pass a test so you can graduate with your peers. You will not be able to use the excuse that your dog ate your "end of the year" marketing report that was submitted well past its deadline. Your parents will not be able to come in and harass the administration and the school board at meetings because you were penalized from playing in the "Championship" Football Game because you were caught drinking alcohol or smoking pot and you were then allowed to play because you were the "Star" quarterback. The list goes on and on.....all through personal experience I might add. So consider what your daughter has experienced a small representation of what artificial and contrived school societies are all about. Not anything at all like real life!!!!</p>

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<p>sgio....Oh, don't worry, I never thought you were trivializing it at all! </p>

<p>I SO agree with your last post and it is true from my observations over the years here as well in many respects and situations. This is truly just one more, nothing that new. </p>

<p>Yes, there are those that have problems when some appear to be "selected" or what not, as if we all have to achieve equally which is not like real life. In real life, some will be chosen for this or that and not everyone. </p>

<p>By the way, your example about the athlete who was caught drinking happened here (highly publicized as he landed in hospital from alcohol poisoning after post prom drinking party at home of school board member) who according to rules should not be allowed to play...was BIG BIG deal last June at our school all over the news. Star athlete was caught (obviously landed in hospital), should not have participated in the state championships due to rules, parents got a court injunction to let him play, school wins championship which is tainted, major big dealings......I've sort of seen it all too (unfortunately)!</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Susan,</p>

<p>I have just read through ALL the posts, and I do feel for your daughter and for you. It is hard as a mom to just SIT and watch while all your DD's efforts for her production are poo-pooed! I can just imagine what would be going through my head. One of the above posters made an interesting comment:</p>

<p>Maybe your DD should do it off-site with no school involvement, and if the kids are too busy to do the school musical that follows, well then let the chips fall where they may. Maybe your daughter could increase the size of the production with more students involved, maybe some of the students which did not get so much stage time last year (in the school musical) or will this year. Then they, the students, would have more say in the quality of the production. If the proceeds are to again be donated, local business might be willing to sponsor and I am sure local press, if not more regional media might become involved.</p>

<p>It wouldn't have to be an "in your face" situation but rather a "you said no, so we went elsewhere thank-you." And maybe, it might set a tradition. Who knows? Definitely outside the box, but if the parents were going to get together anyways, it could be the first "planning" meeting for a student-run, community supported show that they have every year!</p>

<p>Anyway, just wanted to let you know I hear your frustration. I would soooo be stomping my feet!!!</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Soozie: And as I said, when they went in on a couple weekends, adults were present. In fact, I am thinking that the reason he says it was too much work for him is because he felt that an adult was needed to be available or on the premises though they are there after school anyway, not sure what he meant, nor did my D understand why he felt it was additional work for him.</p>

<p>I can understand that a teacher may feel it is "additional work" if there is a nearby group of students without formal adult supervision, even if he is already there anyway for unrelated reasons (like providing individual help to a student in his classes or preparing lessons, putting up bulletin boards, etc.)</p>

<p>If I were a teacher who was staying after school for any of those typical reasons, I would feel that it was an additional imposition of responsibility if I was, by default, the "responsible on-site adult" for a nearby student-run production, simply because there was no officially designated responsible adult. </p>

<p>If I'm the closest adult and no other adult has formal responsibility, I would feel an obligation to keep an eye on things. If anything happened while I was the closest nearby adult, I would feel badly about not keeping a closer eye on things.</p>

<p>(Are the students dancing too close to the edge of the stage; are there security issues with a small group of students working at night in a largely deserted building, especially if some need to leave to use the restroom which may require a long walk down deserted hallways; is there a possibility that outside "gate crashers" might come in and cause trouble at a rehearsal; do the costumes, sets, and props present any safety issues; how can I tell the difference between a "stage fight" or "stage argument" and real trouble if I'm not actually in the auditorium, etc. ) </p>

<p>I suppose I might still be able to grade some papers or prepare lessons while sitting in the back of the auditorium keeping an eye on things, though it would be harder to concentrate. I certainly don't think I could provide extra help to an individual student while sitting in the back of the auditorium.</p>

<p>So I do understand why a teacher might consider this responsibility an additional imposition, even if he is going to be at the school anyhow.</p>

<p>All day long, teachers are responsibile for the sometimes unpredictable and difficult behavior of children. I have enormous respect for the teachers who take on this responsibility day after day. </p>

<p>If teachers take on responsibility for being the on-site adult for student group activities after school, that is a significant additional imposition, even if the students will do the creative work.</p>

<p>Some teachers will find that responsibility very rewarding and willingly take it on without special compensation. </p>

<p>I recall a wonderful drama professor at the community college who cheerfully took on that responsiblity when a group of mostly highschool-aged kids used the cc auditorium for a student-run production. He did not interfere with the group's creative process at all, but he was always on-site as the officially designated adult, even though rehearsals took place on nights and weekends. He got no formal credit for what he did, nor did he get any pay, but he was excited and inspired by the creative energy he got to watch in the student-run group. Perhaps he might have "been in the building anyway," but it was very different to be there and be potentially responsible for anything that might happen to a bunch of teenagers than to be there alone working in his office on lesson plans.</p>

<p>I have also played the role of the responsible on-site adult myself and found it enormously rewarding to sit in the background and watch the young people take ownership of their production.</p>

<p>Students may not want or feel they need such an adult around, but the fact is that our social institutions require that an adult will be on hand to take on this responsibility.</p>

<p>The ideal situation is for the student group to find a willing and enthusiastic staffmember, someone who supports the group's project and doesn't want to interfere creatively, who is willing to be the on-site responsible adult.</p>

<p>But perhaps all the likely district employees are busy with other responsbilities. Possibly, a compromise could be reached where an adult community volunteer could be designated as the "on-the-spot" responsible adult to take formal responsibility for chaperone/supervision.</p>

<p>But I do think it is important that a group of teens should realize that asking an adult to take on this kind of responsibility is indeed an imposition on that adult, not something to be taken for granted.</p>

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<p>Sooz,
I'm going to go against the grain here....</p>

<p>From everything I've read, you are a transplanted Vermontian (?)--as I am a transplanted American. I chose to emigrate and you did too. You've transplanted a super Type A family to the woods of an egalitarian part of the country. Your children have benefitted enormously but they do not see themselves as simple country folk. Nor do you.</p>

<p>The community has also benefitted but they see themselves as simple families, ie not pursuing Ivy league educations and Broadway. They are not you. They do not have your values--just as the place I live does not have my values. Here, it is not the custom for parents to pay for college education. Regardless of wealth. Few people know the tuition of private university in the US, but when they find out...they think it's disgusting.</p>

<p>While I understand your frustration, I can understand the school's reluctance. They apparently gave up more than you know last year and want to move on to something else this year. That's their perogative and it's a good lesson for your D. </p>

<p>Even among CC posters, your family's ambitions for extraordinary levels of achievement are...extraordinary. Shouldn't you expect a few raised eyebrows? A few naysayers? Gosh, I would. I do for myself, anyway.</p>

<p>This community calls it the Tall Poppy syndrome, cutting down the tallest poppy to be in line with the others. Our syndrome is Anglican in origins--and yours might be too. Even though 'Tall Poppy' irritates my overachieving individualistic fiber, I understand the egalitarian force behind it. </p>

<p>At my S's high school, they stream the boys for academics, first set down to sixth set. Then they make an effort to give to top sporting places to the fifth and sixth set boys. Those boys get more enocouragement on the sporting field. It's a way of giving opportunity to all the boys. I wish a coach would pay attention to my S in rowing camp, but he's not in line for that extra attention. He gets it elsewhere.</p>

<p>Your Ds would be Nova stars of achievement at Phillip Exeter, let alone a small rural school. IMHO, that was bound to draw competitive ire--of one sort or another--at either locale.</p>

40

<p>Just saw my daughter and asked her if anything came up today at school about this. She said it had not. The way it was left with that teacher yesterday was that he wanted to schedule a "conference" with her parents to discuss this and she said she had trouble thinking on her feet as to how to respond to that as she cannot see what parents have to do with this student run endeavor and what they could say any differently than she could express just fine on her own. </p>

<p>Marite, when you mentioned that perhaps she should get the music staff more involved, she confirmed what I was saying was that one of his objections was to the contrary, that he did not want to be involved at all and it had been "extra work" for him and she felt his reasons were vague and when she thought about it ,the only "involvement" she can think of is that due to her running this whole event and organizing every aspect, she often had to go to him during homeroom or lunch to touch base or ask for permission for this or that...she felt she was doing the right thing by checking with an adult....for instance, getting permission to get into the lighting booth, stuff like that. So, she did go to an adult to make sure she had an "ok" when certain things came up or to have a question answered that was logistical to do with the school. My D feels that this really is the adult's job to be there to advise children when needed and cannot understand why this should be viewed as problematic as "extra work" if kids come and ask questions or advice or permission. </p>

<p>She said that the central problem as she sees it is that the music staff seemed to resent the student run musical and while they won't admit jealousy, there is some there. As well, there is that sentiment that it is NOT ok for some students to excel or stand out as this group did. </p>

<p>She said something quite apt to me: "The whole time I have been at this school, my "gifts" were lamented, rather than celebrated." She talked about how they have kept her from pursuing what she needs to pursue. She said it has played a big part in her wanting to graduate early as she cannot reach her goals there. My husband will love that comment as he does not like this school at all and thinks it is the wrong place for her (only alternative are boarding performing arts schools which I was not willing to send my child away, nor could ever afford it anyway, plus there have been many benefits to opportunities she has been able to piece together in our neck of the woods that have been enriching). She did tell her GC about it and he told her he is so happy she is getting out of the school after this year (for her sake). She said that the poster on his wall that he always points to in my D's case is an Einstein quote that goes something like "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." and that has truly been her experience there over the years in various educational endeavors. </p>

<p>I asked her if they told her a flat out "no" and she says nope but was highly negative and "damaged her spirit" for the project...but had left it that she was supposed to schedule a meeting with her parents and them ,which she is not really that into doing, but did not know what to say to that. It appears it is not "off" or why would they schedule that? I don't know.....</p>

<p>She only told one other kid so far and this particular girl was not in it last year (due to conflicts) and was SO excited about doing it this year and actually is a top student in the junior class and is now looking to get out a year early as well but can't "graduate" early as my D is because did not plan on doing this but is looking to what colleges will take her after junior year. Do I see a pattern here????</p>

<p>Susan</p>