Parent Contribution Rationale.

Paying for College
41

Without the SCARE CAPS??? and SCARE QUESTION MARKS???, yes I am suggesting tuition-free education should extend past K-12, right through college and grad school. I am suggesting we should have one attitude about education at all levels.

If that means we have to concentrate college professors instead of having a college in every neighborhood like we do with elementary schools, that’s a logistics question. If that means that room and board and books are included, so be it. Room and board are pretty cheap as it is, on the order of $10k/year per person. You could make room and board need-based, or not; it won’t matter. It might be better to have everyone experience dormitory living as a young adult.

It would be, Everyone who finishes HS can go to (start) college. Satisfactory progress, every semester, would be required to continue. Some majors that require scarce resources (like chemistry labs) could be limited to those who get the best grades in prerequisite courses. You can have grades and testing determine which school/program people are admitted to, plenty of countries do that.

Paying for it is a matter of public will. If we, by majority, decide that’s how we should do things, then we’ll find the money. Take some from what is currently going to military spending? Fine with me. Take some from large estates so that trust fund heirs actually have to work for a living? GREAT! Let foreign nationals come here to study, and they pay tuition (since they won’t be staying here as part of our educated population)? Hells, yes! Anything we decide is important enough for the government to make happen, we’ll find a way to pay for it. Check your (all of human) history.

I happen to think that drawing each generation of researchers and problem solvers almost exclusively from the prosperous is a really BAD idea. I think we need a portion of our architects and city planners to have lived in ghettos. I think we need a portion of our agriculturists to have gone hungry. I think we need a portion of our doctors to have grown up without non-emergency health care. I don’t think we can get thorough understanding of human problems, and innovative solutions, only from people who have never actually experienced those problems. So I think we need to draw our specialists, in every field, from all walks of life.

Means-testing families to determine who gets a higher education is just insane. We should WANT those students in school, studying and doing research, because they are going to solve other people’s problems with their education, not just their own, throughout their working life.

42

The thought of doing to all higher ed what has been done to the K-12 system scares me. Believe me, if colleges were government supported, there would be phenomenally ridiculous rules … and I would bet my bottom dollar that standards would be dragged down to the least common denominator. NOT what I want (and my caps are not “scare,” they are “emphasis”).

43

@kelsmom I believe @FCCDAD‌ was replying to @mom2collegekids‌ in post #38

44

Albert…yes you are gaining from the system. Educated people benefits everyone.

Would you suggest that your family shouldn’t pay taxes to repair roads if you don’t own a car? Would you suggest that your parents don’t need to pay taxes to fund police and fire protection because you have never needed it?

I’m going to stop Because this could very quickly turn into a very political discussion.

Sometimes the benefits are not directly for YOU.

My kids never attended a public university. I still support those with my tax dollars.

If your family had decided to send you to school, there would have been one to send you TO.

45

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Take some from large estates so that trust fund heirs actually have to work for a living? GREAT!


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Take some from NCP households so that they actually have to support their own children? GREAT!

oh…guess that’s not so great to @FCCDAD‌

46

I do have to comment - home school families complain about paying the property and other taxes that fund public school; yet they want ‘the public’ to pay for college?

I believe the US has (inarguable) the most available and the most highly sought after higher education in the world - yes there are a few universities in other places, but to educate the masses US colleges and universities educate.

So people want to screw around with it because college costs have risen so much and they as a family are unprepared to cash flow the costs to send their student to a 4 year college. OK, so the student goes to a local CC, lives at home, and gets a job to pay the rest of costs. After finishing a two year degree and has aspirations for a 4 year degree, figure out a plan to do that.

If a student has worked hard in school leading up to college, and has good stats, has earned ‘merit’ - i.e. scholarship. They may have a little above room and board to pay.

State and Federal taxes pay for many good things - roads, common good things.

We do not need higher taxes. College is not a life requirement. K - 12 is publicly funded, but HS was not always publicly funded - or some expenses for HS (like bus transportation in rural areas). At some point it did become ‘standard’ to have free education through grade 12.

Some states have more affordable higher ed than others.

Some people have not saved anything for their kids’ college expenses, nor saved much for retirement.

People can live above their means for many years and have a lot of debt.

Student loans are not bankrupt-able.

There are realities to life. People choose what to do.

I do not like the expectation to always go to ‘big dad government’ instead of looking to one’s own resources and resourcefulness.

47

I wouldn’t have a problem with a dual system where the minimum is provided for, like it is in K-12 now. The college students would go to the nearest school or apply to another that would only admit students if there was space, like many magnet schools do now. Of course, at the best schools the spaces would all be taken up by student who live near the best schools, sort of like k-12 is now (rich people in rich, well supported school districts get better public schools than poorer districts). There would just be a common core of classes, with no choice of programs.

Many states have community college systems that do this now.

There is also the military option, where room and board is paid for, tuition is paid either immediately or after the discharge, lots of training, health care.

There are free options available, but people don’t want to go to community college or join the military or go part time and work. What age is ‘old enough’ to be independent? 22? 35? There are many 18 year olds who want nothing to do with college.

48

Guess the OP just wanted to vent. Hasn’t been on CC since the day of this OP…feb 13.

49

There are just too many unintended negative consequences if undergrad and grad school suddenly became free…including room and board.

To “blow off” the cost of room and board by saying it’s “only” $10k per year, is very short-sighted.

And what would be the limit ? 4 years to get the BS? 6 years? 10 years?

50

I’ve been home schooling for nearly 20 years, and I’ve never heard home schoolers complain about paying school taxes, although I’m sure there are some who do. The home schoolers I know value education and understand that we’re enjoying a privilege that not families can afford, so we support our public schools and our communities.

51

I am glad my taxes pay for good schools, including our public universities, and I am confident my view would be the same if I were childless.
Maybe it is something you need to be an NCP, paying for a child you do not get to raise yourself, to be able to understand, but I doubt it. I think you just have to be able to think in terms of what is best for society.

52

FCCDad, though I feel that college should be made more available to everyone, I do not think that interfering with private colleges is the answer and would absolutely fight any moves taking over private school. In fact, I 'd support stripping privates of a lot of their governement money.

I think that those who live in a locale where there are no higher education options available within a commutable range, room/board and other living expenses are something I would support providing to an in state public. Terms like commutable distance and other such things would have to be established My DH comes from an area where the 4 year options are not there within a half hour commute and it would be an expensive if even viable commute using buses. Cost of Grayhound or whatever on a regular basis is prohibitive. Anyone who satsifactorily completes the community college regiment there and is ready for the next step, should get aid to cover room and board so that they can complete a bachelor’s degree.

53

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Anyone who satsifactorily completes the community college regiment there and is ready for the next step, should get aid to cover room and board so that they can complete a bachelor’s degree.


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I don’t disagree that some “aid” should be available for that “next step” but it doesn’t have to be “free money”. If the Direct Loan situation had options, then a student could commute to a local CC for two years (pay as he goes or use Pell/state aid), save his Direct Loan option and then be able to borrow $15k per year for jr and sr years.

I hate to see kids use Pell and loans to attend a CC (and really just blowing thru a good bit of that money), and then when it comes time to transfer, their loan options aren’t enough.

And if you think kids aren’t blowing thru aid/loans at a CC, all you need to do is watch some Judge Judy episodes. I think we should put JJ in charge of fed aid. lol She’s absolutely disgusted by what she sees come thru her courtroom with kids/parents/stepparents/siblings abusing school FA.

54

There is abuse, I agree. That’s why I say, “satisfactorily”. I think that someone who has gotten through the courses at a community college, and is now a transferable junior but has no state school to which s/he can commute, should be given some additional assistance when PELL, Direct Loans, State aid is simply not there to make up the gap in EFC and what any college will pay. That the person has made the most of the available resources, and in so doing made himself a transfer student at the bottom of the stack for need based aid is something that I think is unfair Some CCs and state schools are trying to bridge this gap, by having preferential programs for those in such a situation, but for those who simply are gapped by State U on financial aid after doing their due diligence, should have some alternatives. I’ll support that in an instant. An 18 year old wanting to go to sleep away school to get out of the home and for the campus experience, nope, not a dime. BUt then I’m not the Queen. JMO here.

55

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There is abuse, I agree. That's why I say, "satisfactorily".

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Satisfactory is only measuring grades. It doesn’t take into acct how kids who commute to a local CC are suddenly given “cash back” from the loans they take out and the money just gets blown on stupid stuff. And, then they need to transfer and they are gapped.

the immediate gratification spending that goes on when kids get “cash back” is ridiculous. They aren’t thinking, “hmm…when I want to transfer, I’m going to need that money.”

that’s why I wish there was the ability to place a “hold” on these loans and then give them a “bonus” by allowing them to borrow MORE for junior and senior years. It is far less risky to allow juniors and seniors to borrow $15k per year, when they’ve borrowed nothing for frosh/soph years.

56

It’s likely that if all 18 yr olds were independent, they would all be eligible for Pell grants.
Do we want our taxes to increase to pay for that?
Being independent means not being supported by their family.
The roughly $11,000 that they would be eligible for from loans & Pell, isn’t likely enough to pay COA.
If your son was bright enough to be admitted to schools that meet 100 % need, but do not offer any merit, he likely would have been eligible for merit aid at schools looking to increase their academic standing.

I see your daughter is considering Catholic schools which are offering merit awards. Private schools can offer whatever configuration of financial aid they want, but they can’t lower your EFC, to make your child eligible for Pell.
I also expect that when they see that private high school tuition has been budgeted for, they will assume that at minimum that amount will be available for college, as free 1-12 education is available, but public colleges are not free to taxpayers.

24 is not really that long to wait before attending college, if a family is dead set against paying anything for their child’s university expenses, yet they don’t qualify for need or merit aid.
Many young people join the military, or spend a year or two with Americorps to earn money for continued education. They may also decide to work &/or travel. Taking time off before college can benefit students by giving them a different perspective on an undergrad education than the one an 18 yr old who is going right from her parents house to college has.
Even though your daughter now has college acceptances in hand, if they are not affordable, she can ask to defer enrollment while she earns more money for tuition.
If she isn’t interested in the military and you can no longer support her, I would suggest NCCC, it is an Americorps program, which will pay a small living stipend, but also an educational award at the end of her service.
http://www.nationalservice.gov/programs/americorps/americorps-nccc

57

Most colleges do not guarantee to meet full need anyways. At many schools, even the students with parents who make very little, are poverty level, hurting to meet the most basic expenses, the only financial aid offered is the PELL grant and the Direct loans and suggestion for the parents to take out PLUS when it is clear they can’t afford to take out anything, pay a dime more. There just isn’t the money out there.

With this last student of mine, I felt like we were showered with an embarrassment of riches. Though we are deemed full pay anywhere with one in college, because he was a great student with high test scores, he had opportunities to go for close to free at any number of places. I could focus on the relatively few school where we would have been full pay and complain, as there are some. Those are the schools that tend to get the most attention on this board. But I daresay, that he would have gotten something from most of the schools out there if he focused on it.

58

Sorry. I as traveling for business and actually did a college visit over the weekend. I don’t log into CC on a daily basis. :slight_smile: I appreciate all the feedback and comments. Great discussion. For those wondering I am not a millionaire. Far from it. Our family income fluctuates and is probably just above the point where a private college would provide any grant $$. I don’t want the federal govt to pay for anyone’s tuition. Avg cost for these colleges is a sticker price of $55k. Even with some scholarship $$ it is still a net cost of well over $30k per year. That is a big nut for a 22 to take on as well as a family with other kids in the “pipeline”. Oh and yes this is a shared account with my son. :slight_smile:

59

^^^
You’re not allowed to “share” an acct here on CC. That’s a big violation. You’ll need to make your own acct.

And…your child doesn’t’ have to attend a $60k school…that is a LUXURY…which can either be paid for or avoided

60

OP- see all those kids marching in the heat and snow to fulfill their ROTC training? See all those kids waiting for the bus in your town to get to the local branch of the state college from their parents house? See all the kids filling sandbags during a flood as part of their National Guard service?

They are figuring out how to finance their college educations-- just like your kids will. If you go into the process with a chip on your shoulder about who else should be paying for your child, you will miss the opportunity to find a college which meets your budget and your kids educational aspirations.