parent of jazz musician junior seeking info

College Majors Music Major
1

Hi College Confidential folks:

My son is a junior. Has good grades (3.8 right now), and should do very well on SAT based on PSAT (98th percentile), good tutor, and based on overall being very good at standardized tests. He excels at math and science, especially Chem and Physics but says these are not his passions–he says jazz music is. He is indeed an outstanding jazz pianist (reads well, not limited in any way to improv only) and is in several jazz bands, including two NYC bands he had to audition into for lead pianist role and got those spots. He is in a music program in high school with two periods of music per day.

As a family, we may not all agree (including my spouse and I). Very important to my husband that the school be as high level academically as our son can achieve. I certainly get the value of that having gone that path myself, but there is a lot to juggle here. Trying to learn as much as possible. I am listing the options I know of below but I don’t know enough and that’s why I am posting this. We will be sure to apply to reach, match and safety schools, so if the schools listed below seem to be all “reach,” don’t worry about that. These are the ones I am aware of. Right now, I am more trying to understand the paths, options. My son strongly prefers urban settings to other settings, but lets say that’s just one factor.

Here are the paths that seem to exist.

  1. Conservatory for B.M. such as Berkeley, Oberlin, New England School of Music, Peabody, etc. One could debate this but let’s just say that as a family, this won’t be a path he will be able to pursue, whether right or wrong.
  1. Dual Degree program at Oberlin, U of Rochester, Johns Hopkins, Temple ?, Carnegie Mellon, etc. This is a 5 year program where you graduate with a B.M. and a B.A. The schools say this is a rigorous program meant for one who plans to be a professional musician. I don't know they say this since you end up with both degrees but I assume it is the level of commitment required for the B.M. This could be a good option if my son really wants to pursue it, though my husband thinks the career options for a professional musician are very poor, and because our son has very high functioning Aspergers, perhaps teaching music on the side won't be a good way to support himself. I am more open minded on this all around, but I am concerned that he won't understand what is really involved here in this Dual Degree program, and that this will be a lot on his plate and won't let him have an enjoyable college experience with enough time to pursue other interests, basketball (another passion), clubs, and that when push comes to shove, he will emphasize the music over the academics if time is short, etc. I'd love to hear from anyone whose son/daughter is doing this with their experience.
  2. Attending a liberal arts college or research university that has very good music performance major and a big enough music program for that to be true year over year. Here, I really haven't identified many options. It seems that at many schools, majoring in music means studying history of music, and other academic aspects of music, which are not what my son wants. He is interested in performance, maybe composition and jazz studies. I am aware of Lawrence which sounds great. No idea if my son will be willing to go to Wisconsin for school though. As of right now, he seems to want to stay close to home in NYC (meaning max 5 hours). In fact, he has thrown out the idea of staying in NYC because he knows the level of music here is high. In any case, I don't want to close any doors at this stage, so we are open to places no matter where, but would prefer something closer to NYC.

So far, we have visited U of Rochester and Wesleyan. Though Wesleyan is listed in Fiske book as being “strong” in music, we realized in talking to the music department folks that this would be way beneath what our son is looking for (e.g., the jazz ensemble is a class that you take once per week and anyone can audition in). So that isn’t the type of place that we need. U of Rochester which might be good, though we didn’t actually hear any music performances. I know they have a lot of music going on there, and of course, they have Eastman. I asked them and they said he could study in courses/lessons at Eastman if he auditions in (let’s assume he will) but as to the spots in the ensembles, preference is given to the conservatory students. Still, this and Lawrence are the best options I have come up with so far.

Others have mentioned a) Yale (I realize incredibly hard to get into), but do they even have a good music performance major?, b) Lafayette?, c) Bard (do they have math and science strength)?, d) SUNY Purchase (math and science offerings look limited?), Northeastern, Northwestern?

All of the traditional New England schools I know of (Hamilton, Union, etc.) don’t seem to have the sorts of robust, large, music programs we had in mind.

So with all that, if you have any suggestions or input for us, I would love to hear it.
thank you!!

2

You will soon get much great advice and stories.

Our S “can’t” even pursue basketball being in a single degree music major - risk of jammed thumbs/fingers.

3

thank you GoForth. Someone directed me to post here and I have been reading the GoForth journal. Trying not to be intimidated by how much I don’t know.

4

USC, UCLA, Northwestern – only music minor unless a duel degree in Bienen School of Music, NYU, Vassar, Johns Hopkins/Peabody, Eastman/Rochester, U of Indiana? We visited Hamilton, the program is VERY small, and Wesleyan. Our son’s top choice is USC – great flexibility for double majoring and great music school.

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PM if you’d like, for info about SUNY Purchase. S is in the conservatory there, studying jazz bass and voice. Sciences are pretty strong, moreso than math. Their spectrum support is excellent. They don’t, however, have a dual degree program. I wasn’t clear if that was definitively what you were looking for? If so, Bard is definitely worth a look.

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Well, I’ll be blunt. Your son seems to know what he wants and what I sense is that your husband is insisting on a contingency plan in case your son doesn’t achieve it. What he should understand though, is that the contingency plan may very well become the reason why your son fails to achieve it… I personally don’t think that “because he’s smart enough to do it” is the right reason for pursuing a dual degree. I also think that “because my parents made me” is one that you may regret later.

All that said, you might want to read a little about Vijay Iyer and Joshua Redman. They are both world renowned jazz musicians who got their undergraduate degrees in non-music fields. There are obviously many others but these two are notable in that their UG degrees are from tippy-top academic schools. (Iyer from Yale for math and physics, Redman from Harvard, accepted at Yale Law which he deferred and ultimately did not purse.)

Note that the opposite path is also possible. I work in the audio engineering industry and I have several colleagues who have BM degrees from conservatories, spent time in NYC pursuing a performance career, then went back to school to get graduate degrees in engineering.

My son also has a few friends who applied to both music and non-music programs and made the decision based on where they were accepted and how much scholarship money they were offered. (They all ended up in music, btw.) In contrast, he also has two friends who entered UMich as dual-degree candidates. They’re now all about half-way through their sophomore year and one has decided not to continue with the BM degree and it looks like the second friend will most likely give up the music degree as well.

7

Ultimately, some compromises will likely have to happen, most likely he’ll have to expand his geographic comfort zone and you and your husband will have to honor his desire to indulge his “passion.” Lawrence is a fine school, as is Northwestern. Other schools to consider might include Univ. Indiana/Jacobs School of Music, Vanderbilt, Rice, USC, and UCLA. UCSB’s College of Creative Studies has a music composition major.

8

hi folks–thanks. Sorry, I think I am not being clear about what I am asking (probably because I really don’t know much yet, and my son is not motivated in looking up colleges on his own).Let me try again.

We had started looking last year assuming he would be in a LAC or Research U, and would just be happy to be in a jazz ensemble and take some music courses/minor; the desire to major in music is not something we had anticipated and he only spoke up about it this Fall. So we are evolving as fast as we can. He has always had a passion for music but it has increased over the past year.

Right now, he is telling us that he wants to major in music, jazz music, and have great performance opportunities, but not be in a conservatory where it is only music. Honestly, he really didn’t know what a conservatory even was until we explained it. He also hasn’t said anything about dual degree program (I did read that article posted here)–that was really coming from me. Am I hearing that the dual degree program is too much for your average person and just done to satisfy parents?

So, for a student interested in Jazz specifically, what are the LAC/Research Universities that he could attend where he could major in music with lots of performance opportunities in jazz? Ideally near NYC but not limited to that? (Yes, he may get more flexible on location and not insist on NYC or close to NYC, and I hope he will. But may not. We’ll try.) I’m hearing Lawrence, Temple, SUNY Purchase, U of Michigan? Anyone know anything about Carnegie Mellon? Anyone know about the jazz at U of Rochester? How about Columbia?

If he decides he really wants a dual degree, or that he really wants a conservatory, I hope he will get involved in the process and say so. But that’s not happening right now and I can’t make him. I’m trying to do the leg work so we can look at the sensible choices for him.

Sorry if I am asking dumb questions here. I’ll keep reading the existing posts. Would love to hear from those especially knowledgeable about jazz as opposed to classical.

thanks folks.

9

No need to apologize! The Jazz Studies program at Purchase is a conservatory BMus program, so is essentially all-music-all-the-time with the exception of maybe one liberal arts core per term. It might not fit the bill from what you’ve described. SUNY New Paltz has good BA Jazz program, and great science/engineering offerings. A double major would be do-able there. Its a bit of a haul to the city though. Columbia is reach-y but worth a look. S has a jazz guitarist friend there; he’s very happy and performing a lot. Also, City College has a terrific BFA jazz program with stellar faculty if he wants to be in NYC.

10

Hi there! I understand you position as a mom bc I have a jazz pianist son myself and he’s a senior! :slight_smile: He has a passion for jazz, but he didn’t realize this until the last 2 years of his HS career. We have a very unique set of circumstances where he went to school in Germany at a Dodea school and this is where he discovered his true joy: jazz piano. It wasn’t until his latter part of his junior year where he realized he would like to study it, at least minor in it. But because he doesn’t have the formal education (other than performing in jazz bands, ensembles, and master classes), I believe he is a bit too late in jazz performance and auditions (he is classically trained). He is looking into minoring it when he gets to the school and declare it when he gets there, and or doing a dual degree program. The one he loves in NU. It’s a great school and he applied for ED. We went to the tour there, and he fell in love. The tour guide was a business/music major and this is exactly the kind of passion my son also has. The dual degree program at NU is flexible and gives you opportunity to major in both programs, and because NU excels in areas like arts/music, STEM, humanities, I think you can’t go wrong there. This is our first choice.

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Hi gracepaik–thank you. Do you mean NYU?

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Columbia has a wonderful jazz program, and Brandeis and Emory also have interesting looking programs!

13

Northwestern (NU) is an audition program for the music school. If you do not get into the music school you can only MINOR in music. Bienen is a highly competitive, conservatory. They do have a dual degree program, but it is for the most dedicated types from what I can tell. Last year Bienen accepted 2 jazz guitarists into its program.

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@browniemom - She probably means Northwestern.

15

I don’t know anything about jazz…but I will say that your initial email seems like something I may have written many moons ago (about voice). If you just keep going in circles you will end up somewhere! Good luck…and don’t feel bad about “stupid” questions…we’ve all been there.

16

A couple of general (not Jazz, lol) additions to the above recommendations:
1.) take your S to visit some schools…you can see first hand the differences between stand alone Conservatories, Conservatory within a college setting, and excellent Schools of Music. If you have time, visit a few this year and consider sending him to a summer program.
2.) Finances may come into play here…if you have little to no need, your S will be more free with his options.
3.) Check out Disability Accommodations departments at the various schools, and search for information on this here on CC for schools you are interested in (you do NOT have to disclose disability information ahead of time…you can check out these things without doing so).

I think your S May start to get the sense of the sort of place he’d like to be if he can really visit, sit in on some classes and rehearsals (SO important), etc…

17

It’s hard to argue against passion for art and music, but your son needs to realize, it, for all but the rare, is a life that has to be sustained by the love of the art and not the promise of financial gain. Even the top jazz and classical musicians who tour and record don’t make a lot of money. Cracking even into that echelon is uncommon, no matter the school. That has to be OK as it’s statistically speaking, by a LONG margin, the most likely outcome.

One of my good friends is a Berklee jazz alum. He doesn’t have anything to do with his instrument or music for the most part at all any more.

My son has been a classical musician since he was 5. He was fortunate to play master classes for some of the top musicians. When he was 13, he asked one of them, a Grammy winner as a matter of fact, when he decided to make music a career. After complementing my son, and saying that he was more advanced than he at the same age, he spun a cautionary tale of the life of a classical musician. I assume it is fairly applicable to jazz too. His final words: “Life is far more satisfying if you are a top-notch, hobbyist musician, brain surgeon than it is if you are a hobbyist brain surgeon, professional musician.” My son is now a masters candidate in engineering and still plays for personal enjoyment.

Good luck!

18

So first as a special education advocate who mostly works with parents whose children are also gifted, I want to encourage you to think about where your son is maturity wise. Not just academically but socially as well. If he himself is not interested in colleges just yet then he might benefit from having an extra year to mature. A gap year can be invaluable for kids who are 2E because it can help them grow into their talents and figure out what learning environment is best for them.

Second you need to think carefully about learning environments. Small versus Large. Rural versus Urban. Distance from Home (In most cases I feel it is preferable to insist kids who may be a bit behind in terms of maturity stay within a reasonable distance from home). Competitiveness versus collaboration. Do not assume that supports in college will be anything like what your son is getting in high school. Even if a program has a good disability services office, these things change. A new director can come on board or professors can collectively decide to be less flexible. The 2E kids I know who go off and thrive in college are the ones who learn to advocate for themselves and are in touch with what they need in order to excel.

Third do not assume that just because a child is attending a conservatory there is limited intellectual engagement or that the liberal arts classes will be poor. My son who attended NEC entered thinking he would want to take liberal arts classes at Tufts, but he preferred taking them at NEC because the teachers were excellent and the class sizes were small and he received a lot of personal attention. Now at age 23 he is just as educated as his housemates who went to top colleges/Universities. There is a lot more to being at college and getting an education than just the specific courses you take. More importantly he knows who to learn on his own, which is an important skill to have these days because EdX and Coursera mean that you can independently get many technical skills if you are motivated.

Also remind yourself and your husband college is NOT an end point. The goal is grow into being a happy functioning adult. My own family is very academically oriented but our son insisted on going to a conservatory. Today he lives in NYC and teaches part-time at a private high school and also works for the Harmony program. That provides him his income so he can work on multi-disciplinary media projects and apply for grants. He tells us it breaks his heart when he meets a talented student who tells him he doesn’t have time to pursue music more seriously or whose parents are actively discouraging the child from exploring music as a potential career path. There are so many ways to be a musician besides just being a grammy winning performer.

At the end of the day what matters is your son is true to himself and doing what he loves and cares about.

19

Yes, @StacJip ! 100%! Particularly in this situation, I would recommend thorough and early school visits! And a summer or two away would help him discover how he does in a dorm living environment, and perhaps highlight specific things to ask for in terms of non-academic accommodations.

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thanks @StacJip and others. He doesn’t get any supports in school. He’s been away from home many summers for several weeks and does fine with that. He certainly might like to be closer to NYC but I don’t think that a gap year is so much of interest to him. The more complex issues are the college path question that I posed --whether there are non conservatory schools where he can still have a great musical and other experience.