Parent of Worried Daughter with Relatively Interesting Stats--Please Help!

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>I'm the parent of a very active daughter. She's lately been very worried about her chances at the colleges she's applying to. She's has incredible extra-curriculars and work/internship experiences, however, because of her activities, her grades and test scores are less than ideal for the schools she's looking at.
UPenn's Huntsman Program is her early decision, U of Washington and Reed College seem to be her safeties, and she's looking at Middlebury, Georgetown, Tufts, Cornell, Rice, NYU, U of Chicago, and Northwestern. And she says she's applying to Harvard for kicks and giggles.</p>

<p>She's extremely worried about her 3.86 gpa (unweighted) and SAT scores in the 600s. She retook her SATs last month after $80 worth of SAT study books and a summer of relatively hard studying. So hopefully she broke 2100 well. She's also terribly worried about her math scores because they are so varied. She scored in the low 600s for her SAT IIs but a 5 on the much harder AP Calculus AB. And because Huntsman (her dream) is highly competitive (apparently a 7% acceptance rate meaning Harvard may not be kicks and giggles after all), her scores will ruin her chances.</p>

<p>Her extra-curriculars are where she excels. She's relatively fluent in Chinese and co-founded a Chinese school (which is now rather large) with her mother a year or so ago. She has also taught or helped teach Chinese or Chinese-related activities (dance and martial arts) at a large and popular Chinese school here in WA and a community college. She's active in her school's debate team, literary magazine, and Key Club (leadership org) as a captain, executive editor, and regional treasurer, respectively. She's also replaced her mother as the manager, head dancer, and director of one of two Chinese dance groups in Seattle. She's been volunteering for an organization called Families with Children from China (FCC) since she was 5 or 6 years old and recently started an internship with Ten Thousand Villages, a non-profit, fair trade business/organization (it would be ironic calling a business non-profit).</p>

<p>Besides Chinese, she also takes Arabic with a world leadership organization. She recently founded a Middle Eastern and Arabic Language club at her school. Other things she does include piano (10 years), cello (3, on school orchestra), wushu (Chinese martial arts), and Chinese painting.</p>

<p>For the Huntsman Program, which requires you to have a target language, she is using Chinese as her target language. The problem is, there have been strong rumors that Penn admissions have been trying to cap Mandarin speakers (as well as Spanish) because there are too many. If you're wondering, my D has a 770 on the SAT Chinese and scored high enough on the HSK (China's TOEFL equiv) that the Chinese government gave her a full scholarship, all expenses paid, to study Chinese for a month at a university in China. So her level isn't too bad, but definitely can't compare with native speakers applying from China.</p>

<p>She has been in love with international relations, political science, and economics.</p>

<p>So here are her concerns:</p>

<p>Should she consider any other schools?
How bad do her scores look compared to her myriad of activities?
Should she even mention her other activities? (The instruments, art, etc.) She enjoys them, but not to an extent.
Should she also mention that she helps our family real estate agent friends sell their houses?</p>

<p>And especially:</p>

<p>Does she have too many extra-curriculars? I know that schools now like seeing only one or two that students focus heavily on. But my daughter has several. Will that hinder her chances?</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

2

<p>Im wondering why she feels Reed & UW are safeties
THe scattergram for my daughters school- which is one of the best publics in washington- shows that the avg GPA of accepted students is 3.7 ( unweighted) and the avg SAT ( 1600 scale) is 1279-
so I would say UW is a good fit- but not necessarily a safety.
( There were also students with higher GPAs and Scores who were not admitted)</p>

<p>For Reed accepted average GPA is 3.83 and the * average* SAT score on the 1600 scale is 1443.
Again some were deferred or denied with higher unweighted grades and test scores than your daughter so while it certainly should b e looked at- it wouldn't be a sure thing.</p>

<p>I would strongly recommend that she find some actual safeties- schools with a lower yield rate. Colleges with rolling admissions are a great thing to keep in mind- it takes some of the pressure off when you know that you are already admitted.</p>

<p>If she likes Reed/Portland, Lewis and Clark may be worth looking at- the avg. GPA and SAT score was 3.75 & 1328 but they denied fewer & if she wants to look at a large instate university- Washington State university admitted an average GPA of 3.23 from my daughters school and SATs of 1091-</p>

3

<p>We live in Washington state so the UW would definitely be a safety. Also, GPAs for state schools aren't very reliable because everyone uses them for safeties. And Reed's been courting her for years by offering her free trips, waived fees, etc.
Though her GPA's somewhat low unweighted, it would be rather high if it were weighted, as she takes the hardest classes at her school (large, inner-city, public, magnet high school).</p>

<p>She wants to stay away from public schools and the west coast in general. She's definitely more interested in the overall prestige and reputation of the school.</p>

4

<p>I realize you live in washington state-;)
If she is at Garfield as my daughter is- you may want to check out naviance and compare her grades and scores to others who have applied</p>

<p>I just would hate to have her not have any real safties
My niece who was in the IB program with great grades- didn't get into * any* of her schools * except * her safties and she also had been courted by some of the top schools.
However- they are very interested in increasing their application numbers- and it isn't always a clear indication of admittance</p>

5

<p>I think the Chinese involvement sounds great- My oldest used to take Chinese in elementary- her class even went to Chongquing- several of the parents were involved with the sister city organization and began the process of bringing the Seattle chinese Garden. Since we ahve such a strong Asian community here- it was a natural partnership.</p>

<p>Is she planning on continuing her language/cultural study in college?
Prestige and reputation depend on the field/ who is being asked/</p>

<p>You don't mention needing aid- but I would suggest some of the womens colleges- especially Smith & it along with Holyoke have the advantage of being in a college consortium , so you aren't locked into one campus</p>

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<p>With the possible exception of UW, every school on the list would be considered a reach. Some a giant reach. The gpa and course schedule are not the problem. It's the testing. Several students on the board have overcome the same type of scores at the same type of schools, but to have a list of all reaches and one match or even one safety is not usually the best plan. </p>

<p>Free trips and waivers and courting? Usually means nothing.</p>

<p>As to the EC's , I would take great care to make sure no inference of "mom" was present. The way they were presented here makes "mom" too great an actor. Schools are looking for actions that are the conscious willful choice of an independent student. Not someone whose family has involved her in family activities since she was 5. </p>

<p>
[quote]
She's definitely more interested in the overall prestige and reputation of the school.

[/quote]
And that's what comes through with her list. NYU and Middlebury? IMHO she needs to reconsider her list and build it from the bottom up with schools that will help her meet her future goals. I would suggest finding out the 25th and 75th percentile of scores at the schools and making sure that most of them were solid matches with your daughter's scores. Again, it is appropriate to reach for the stars- but it's even more appropriate to have a soft spot to land if she misses. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Maybe she should look at a few Washington DC area schools, such as George Washgington, American, and U Maryland College Park. They would all pretty much be matches. I do think that studying helped and that her next SAT scores will be better. However, she does need to apply to more matches and safeties and fewer reaches. How about Barnard? She could take courses offered by all branches of Columbia University if she went there.</p>

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<p>Huntsman probably turns down more than 90% of valedictorians that apply.</p>

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<p>Since Barnard turns down 75% of its applicants, that would be a reach, too.</p>

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<p>Her ECs do sound great and could set her apart. It all depends on what a given school is looking for and who else they've got in their applicant pool.</p>

<p>I don't know about U of W, but some solid B-plus VT students didn't make it into UVM this year.</p>

<p>Also you haven't said if you need merit money. A lot of these schools don't give any. I agree that the list needs more safety.</p>

11

<p>I agree that with her stats, the schools on the list seem all to be reaches. She should apply to some score optional schools (making sure they do not required SATIIs, though).
While her achievements in Chinese are very impressive, it may be even better to highlight her interest in Arabic, which is less oversubscribed at the moment.
The ECs are impressive, but one gets the impression that mom initiated them and daughter eventually took over. Adcoms are likely to get the impression that mom is still there, in the wings, giving directions.</p>

12

<p>Welcome to CC, yanimated.</p>

<p>I guess what I'm wondering, looking at her ECs, - is she Chinese? (Is this a stupid question?) Because if she isn't these might be unusual ECs, but if she is Chinese then I'm worried they don't really make her stand out from any other well involved Chinese student...</p>

<p>She might have a teeny-tiny edge for geographic diversity, but overall, this list looks like so many others. Loaded with reach schools and the only safety is the State U. Most of those kids end up at State U, which might be just fine, or might not, but you do have to understand that.</p>

<p>If she would not be happy at State U, then try to sleuth out a few more schools that offer great programs she might be interested in, and where her stats let her fall comfortably into a safe category.</p>

<p>Also, and perhaps most importantly, what are you looking at in the way of finances?</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

13

<p>Mount Holyoke might be a match for her, also SATs are optional for admission--good poli sci and international relations
If she wants a coed school, Brandeis has a strong Chinese program and good economics and poli sci--might be slightly easier in admissions than Tufts. Middle Eastern studies are also a focus there. .
I also agree that GWU or American U would be good choices.</p>

14

<p>The ECs are both impressive and focused - always a good thing - but I have to echo the others who say that, as you presented it, her mother seems too involved in her activities.</p>

<p>A lot of state schools, UPenn included, do not put much weight on ECs and instead rely heavily on test scores and GPA, which may be to your daughter's disadvantage. The smaller schools, both liberal arts and smaller research universities, look more closely at the whole package. She might want to focus her attention on them.</p>

<p>I question the range of school environments she has chosen. UPenn is a huge school out in the middle of nowhere, with a powerful football culture permeating every aspect of it. NYU is a city school, best known for arts and business, and its campus communities seem centered on major alone. Middlebury is an excellent school for languages, as well as having excellent all-round academics, but it barely has a downtown. Georgetown is a Jesuit university right in DC. Get the point? Your daughter needs to seriously consider what KIND of campus/college community she wants so she'll have a better chance of staying at the college she enters as a freshman. Prestige means nothing if she can't stand the environment.</p>

<p>She should also be aware that college admissions have changed over the last few years. Because of the huge number of high school seniors applying to college, admissions is more competitive than ever. It would serve you and your daughter well to peruse last year's posts on the colleges she is considering; check out the stats of those who were rejected as well as those who were accepted since you might be surprised. Also dig up the threads by excellent students who got into NONE of their schools. The unpredictability of admissions combined with the increased competition makes it essential for her to include several <em>real</em> safeties that she would also be happy to attend since many students end up at their last choices.</p>

<p>If she is looking at Middlebury, she might also want to consider some of the East Coast all women's schools. My daughter didn't originally want to attend an all-women's school, but she's now at Smith and adores it. (BTW, although I don't like to give stats here because I think they can be deceptive, my daughter's SATs were in the 700s, as a comparison for you; she also had reached college-level competence in two languages.)</p>

<p>Don't underestimate the colleges' desire for geographic diversity. Your daughter is more likely to get into match schools that don't have many students from Washington, one reason the east coast and southern schools might be strong options. It will be much harder for her to get into schools that have a high percentage from your state.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, you can't tell what will happen. From the list you've already created, she might get into all those schools - or none. Just make sure you increase her chances of having a choice come April.</p>

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<p>Just to clarify, the University of Pennsylvania (UPenn) is an Ivy League school. The Uniiversity of Pennsylvania is not the same school as Penn State, which is the state school described in the above post. UPenn's Huntsman Program is one of the most competitive programs to get into in the country.</p>

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<p>Man - I can't BELIEVE I just did that! </p>

<p>Of course UPenn is an Ivy - and I know that full well. I guess my brain was still full of the Penn State talk I had last night with eight people.</p>

<p>Apologies to all!</p>

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<p>Momwaitingfornew: We're all human! The advice you gave above is very solid. The OP certainly has a lot to think about.</p>

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<p>Thanks for understanding. :-)</p>

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<p>Check the archives of the individual college discussion boards here for the stats of students who were rejected and accepted last spring. Also pay the $15 to fully access US News premium college info web site so you can get a breakdown of admissions info on each college. </p>

<p>I don't suggest applying anywhere for "kicks and giggles," which to me indicates just throwing an app together to see what will happen. That's a waste of time and money and will guarantee rejection. If she's interested in Harvard, she should do the best app she can while making sure she also has safeties that she'd happily attend.</p>

<p>Her list is very top heavy. Even if she gets a 2100, her SAT scores will be low for most of the colleges that she's considering. I suggest adding more match and safety schools. Huntsman also is especially difficult to get into. Just check the stats here of students who applied last year, and see who was admitted.</p>

<p>Being from Washington State may help her. If she's Asian, that won't help her with the colleges on her list. </p>

<p>I'm not sure how the colleges will look at her ECs which -- if she's Chinese and if her mom has also been involved in a leadership role - -may appear to be manufactured ECsthat look better than they were in reality, not ECs that she really organized independently.</p>

20

<p>I have another question.
She appears to be at Cleveland- a small urban school of less than 700 with 91% minority students and a 43% graduation rate. Even though her GPA and scores are lower than we like to see for those on her list, she is probably tops in her class, although I would still be a little worried about grade inflation.</p>

<p>So since I imagine few in her school are planning college, let alone ivy league schools, will that help her or hurt her?
Colleges on the one hand aren't necessarily going to be very familiar with the school, at least not as familiar as some other of the schools in Seattle- but she is probably a URM and doing pretty well in her school.</p>

<p>If she is at Cleveland, they have about the lowest scores in the district on the Math WASL- so for her to do so well in math gives me the idea that she is pretty focused and hard working- always a plus ;)</p>