Parent Problems

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I need to vent, and I need some advice from sane parents.</p>

<p>First, some background info. I live in an area where Asians have a large influence (50%+ is Asian). I'm a senior in a competitive high school with a 3.65 UW GPA, 31 ACT (2150 SAT translated), scored near-perfect on SAT IIs, and have taken 9 AP courses along with numerous honors courses.</p>

<p>My mom experienced the normal Taiwan education. She had to go through high school, test into college, etc. etc. until she came to America for grad school. Essentially, she knows what the Undergraduate Admissions is about since she's experienced a similar version of it in Taiwan.</p>

<p>My dad, however, grew up during the Cultural Revolution in China. He didn't go to high school, but was able to test into college after the Revolution, came to America and went to grad school here. He has no idea what the system is like here.</p>

<p>After college, my parents founded and now have a successful computer software business.</p>

<p>So here's the problem:</p>

<p>My dad has repeatedly told me that what I've done in the last four years in high school was wrong.</p>

<p>He says that I should NOT have self-studied for my ACT. I initially got a 30 in February, but then he suggested a tutor. He then got one and my score only went up to a 31 in April. For some reason, he's blaming me for self-studying and how it didn't work. I told him that he was the one who got me the tutor, and so blames me for being a bad student. My mom, growing up with a normal education, believes tutors are a waste of time and money and encouraged me to self-study. My dad blames her for my relatively low score as well.</p>

<p>Now I have to self-study again for the December one next week.</p>

<p>Later, he tells me that the best chance of success is to build a solid base, meaning go to a good college. How do you go to a good college? His solution is 3.85+ GPA, 2300+ SAT scores. Everything else (ECs, personal statements, etc.) is irrelevant and unnecessary. I soon question his credibility, and he says that since he was able to go from rags to riches (The American Dream, essentially), he knows what's best for me, and he knows how to get into a good college since he apparently knows the system. He claims that no one else can provide such good information other than himself. </p>

<p>I tell him that if that were true, then every single college prep book I have ever bought, every website I have gone to (including CC), is wrong. He says that's true, and that he is right, and everyone else is wrong.</p>

<p>He then criticizes my extracurriculars, Boy Scouts and Marching Band, both of which I have a strong passion to. Marching Band takes up a huge chunk of my time, and so whenever there's a cancelled rehearsal or whatnot, he is happy. Whenever I'm about to go to a backpacking trip, he tells me what a big waste of time it is. It's like he never wants me out of the house! </p>

<p>I then asked him that if he knew what was right, why didn't he tell me that when I was a freshman? He said that he has, but I just don't listen. In reality, he's lying. He didn't care what I did, whether it was academics or extracurriculars. But now, as I'm almost done with college apps, he begins to see what kind of "problem" I'm in.</p>

<p>Essentially, there's no way in talking sense to my dad. There's no way to tell him that the system's changed now, where ECs and personal statements are extremely important, where SAT/GPA is not necessarily the deciding factor. </p>

<p>My mom told me to ignore what my dad says, but it's just simply not possible. I'm actually looking forward to moving out come June to whatever college I end up going to.</p>

<p>If this is the stereotypical Asian parenting, then it's just ridiculous.</p>

<p>Please advise me on what to do. Thank you for your response.</p>

2

<p>What is the current status of your college applications?</p>

3

<p>I've submitted the UC app already. I'm done with another app, but haven't submitted. </p>

<p>The Common App is finished, and I just need to work on supplements.</p>

4

<p>Tubaman:</p>

<p>You sound like a very solid student. You will get into some good schools.
Your dad is illogical, isn't he? His life story does not support his argument.
It's hard to ignore your dad, right now, but tell yourself that soon, it will be out of your hands and of your dad's hands, too. He is anxious on your behalf. Too bad he can't keep it to himself. Once you're admitted to a good school, as I'm sure you will be, he will calm down.</p>

5

<p>tuba,</p>

<p>Your dad is worried, he doesn't have to be rational, he's a dad and dad's do this, they don't have to be asian... </p>

<p>Your dad loves you and feels frustrated about the situation, it's the "who's piloting the ship" that can take over. He can either fall apart or get angry and b itchy about everything and nothing. Know why? because he loves you. </p>

<p>I know the first thing you want to do is fire back when he goes on this rampage. Instead next time just say "dad, I know you must really love me to get this wound up about things, thank you." See what happens. He may need a second to think because he kinda wants the head butting with you.</p>

<p>It's not just an asian thing, it's a thing dad's who love their kids do.. Also don't confuse his working hard to be ignoring you. </p>

<p>And you are right, in many ways he doesn't want you out of the house..He is coming to grips with his son moving away... someday you'll feel the same way. He's making you mad because that's probably how he expresses himslef. It isn't easy for some men to say they love their sons.. not because they don't but because it just wasn't done, </p>

<p>You've butted heads with him and you both get angry, try a different route. See what happens... </p>

<p>Good luck kid... remember if he didn't care about you, he wouldn't yell and b itch about silly things...</p>

6

<p>What does your dad consider "a good college"? Does he include the UCs? If so, he'll be happy since you're sure to get into some UCs.</p>

7

<p>So it sounds like your applications are under control. I'm glad that you got to be in ECs for which you have a passion. As far as your applications are concerned, it appears that little further can be done about the ECs or the ACT. </p>

<p>What leads you to say that it is not possible to ignore your father?</p>

8

<p>Marite has some very good points including the fact that his rags to riches did come from following his advice to you. </p>

<p>It's difficult to deal with parents, when you are entering adulthood, just as it is difficult for many of us parents to deal with you. We are not always right, nor are we logical. We have our issues, problems, weaknesses too. We want the best for our children, and I believe your father does want this. He is dealing with mixed feelings and a lot of his own inadequacies in being able to understand a whole new culture for a new generation. I can tell you that it is especially difficult for those parents who had to scratch and claw their way through this system with little parental help, support, resources and advice to watch their children who to them have so many more advantages, often supplied by parental blood and sweat, "take it easy". Yes, I know you are not "taking it easy" at band and scouts, but look at it from the perspective of someone who did not have those luxuries. They figure with all that you have, you should be superman, given there are those they know who had so much less who worked very hard. They can understand high test scores and high grades much easier than the ECs, and other parts of life that often are not a component of upper education success in most other countries. And they are not so off base in their focus on those test scores and grades, as they are an essential part of successful app for an elite college. An elite college is often all they know, since the US college system is unmatched anywhere in the world for the plethora of choices. </p>

<p>I say this as a parent who did not have the advantages and luxuries that my husband and I have provided for our children who are not as academically focused as either of us were at that age. We were both top students who strived to do as well as possible. Not many ECs either, especially for me as I had few talents and was given no encouragement to do anything outside of school. Without lessons and some help to get into things like dance, sports, music, scouts, etc, a child is not going to be able to get involved. My parents did not give out money for any of those things and were enough against it from the onset that I did not join anything. Not that I had any natural talent or interest in any of those things either, but had my parents been less discouraging, I'm sure I would have tried them. I remember looking enviously at those who got ice skating lessons as I did like to skate, but skating for me meant only a handful of times on ice each year on rented skates as a rare treat. No Michele Kwan in the making under those circumstances, I can tell you. The library and school really comprised my life.</p>

<p>It appears that you have gotten more opportunities than that from parents who were less American and informed as mine. But even as your dad wanted to give you everything you wanted and for you to be happy, there is that conflict in him that he is giving you to much that is getting in the way of what he feels is your primary objective in life--to get into an elite college. </p>

<p>Though I am not in the same shoes as your dad, I too, look at the "stuff" and privileges my kids get and often wonder if we are spoiling them too much and if that is not hurting their motivation and accomplishments in school which I feel is their major job. </p>

<p>Hopefully you can understand this a bit. I control myself more, because I am a product of the US system, and understand it. I know there needs to be a balance to keep harmony and that high academic achievement should be self motivated, though it is a parent's job to make sure the kids don't get too far off track. But I can tell you that it is a balancing act. </p>

<p>It is not exclusively an Asian parent thing, though it is common among Asian families who so want their kids to be successful here in the US. Many immigrant groups, particularly those who came from a culture that valued education highly, react this way. Many American parents who feel that they have given their kids so much also feel that way, as they feel all of those benefits should make it a breeze for their kids to do well in school. </p>

<p>This is a tense time when parents want something that is selective, and something that at this point the student has to largely get himself. Though a parent can help, and even be overinvolved, what it comes down to is the students ability and desire to perform. And as you go on to college, you will be increasingly be on your own. Your Dad's mood swings and rantings about your inadequacies (in his mind) will not be as much in your face when you leave home. </p>

<p>Take care and good luck.</p>

9

<p>30 on the ACT? Boohoo. XD</p>

<p>Kids would die for those kinds of scores, be happy. Your dad has been conditioned, and so have you. Accept each other and get on with your life, no need to be upset over something so insignificant.</p>

<p>Ten years from now it won't matter if you didn't get into UCLA or Brown. There are tons of schools who would kill to have a student like you....</p>

<p>You could use this as an essay...just a thought.</p>

10

<p>tubaman - I concur with the above posters. You Dad loves you and cares about you and wants you to be successful. In that sense you are truly blessed. Tune out the noise and realize that you are doing the right kinds of things. If only every student had problems like yours!</p>

<p>PS, I came from a heritage where children were pretty much thrown off the dock. The ones that survived came back pretty strong swimmers. Different strokes ....</p>

11

<p>To add to Opie's excellent suggestion, another thing to say to your father is, "You may be right." Nod your head, say "I'll consider it", and then continue doing what you're doing. That not only defuses the situation (it's really hard to argue with someone who won't argue back), but shows your father that you respect him. After all, much of what he's talking about is water under the bridge; you can't go back in time and do things differently.</p>

<p>He may just be feeling guilty for not having been part of the process, and is trying to "be the father" now.</p>

<p>Also, when you have a moment, ask him questions: "How did you do this, Dad?" Let him tell you his story, even if you've heard them before. But ask detailed questions that maybe you haven't asked before when he begins telling the stories. "How did you decide to do this business? What did you have to learn? How hard was it to come to a totally different culture?" That takes the focus off you.</p>

<p>When the acceptances come in, I have a feeling he'll be proud. And if he wants to take credit for helping you get into these schools by giving you the benefit of his wisdom, let him! It doesn't hurt you, and makes him feel good - that's what I call win-win.</p>

12

<p>Thank you for your responses!</p>

<p>I feel much better now towards my dad. It's good to hear from other parents to know what he's actually doing.</p>

<p>HSisOverrated, there are people in my school who hate me for having a 31 and saying it's very low. I guess it's all in relative terms! I'm scoring 32-35 overall now on practice tests by self-studying.</p>

<p>The problem is now, that my brother has heard all this and my dad wishes to apply his method towards him. He wants my brother to quit marching band/scouts (those are his only ECs for now) immediately and not join again until he can achieve a 4.0 (he's getting pretty close) and a 2300+ by paying for a tutor. My brother's only a freshman, and doesn't really have that much of a social life outside of band.</p>

13

<p>Tubaman:</p>

<p>Can you and your brother hold your dad off until at least you hear results from your schools? Also, let your dad know that colleges appreciate students who have social skills and do not spend every waking minute doing problems and reading assigned books. Scouting is a very valued EC at most colleges. Remind your dad that having a support system of friends in high school is also very helpful to your brother, especially as he is still trying to adjust to high school life. Can you very gently let him know (perhaps through your mom) that all this pressure is counterproductive? If he wants you and your brother to do well, as he clearly does, he is going about it the wrong way.</p>

14

<p>Show your Dad the Common Application. If your brother has nothing to fill in all those slots for ECs and volunteer experience colleges aren't going to be happy. I think if he actually sees the application he might understand a little bit better that in the US it's not just about grades and test scores. Maybe you can find some of those threads where kids with perfect scores get rejected while kids with lower scores, but more interesting activities get in.</p>

15

<p>If your GC is available, have your parents meet with the GC. Your father would listen to someone of authority. Your father was probably too busy with his business when your were a freshman, and now he may feel a bit helpless to do what's right for you. I am a Chinese mom. I think he is just worried and he doesn't know how to express it. Last year, I was very worried and felt very helpless toward this whole college process for my daughter - and I was educated here. I could just imagine how your dad must feel - wanting to help, but doesn't really know to do it. Parents are not perfect, but we want what's best for our kids.</p>

16

<p>First, I'm flattered that you referred to us as "sane parents." Some people would disagree, including some of our kids.</p>

<p>Your father seems to be assuming that the American college admissions system is a meritocracy, which it is not. He grew up in a meritocracy and then found success in this country by working hard. College admissions doesn't even make sense to those of us who grew up here and are familiar with the way things are done. </p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

17

<p>I've tried my best to ignore his remarks, but they just keep coming and coming.</p>

<p>This morning, my dad was reading the local Chinese newspaper and saw that some student from my school won an award at JPL. I didn't know who he was (after all, our school has 4,000 students), and he got mad. He then remarked that I shouldn't have joined a "stupid" group like Marching Band. I asked him why Band is "stupid." He replied that with 400 students (our band is huge), there's no way to stand out. Hello? He knows that I'm tuba section leader! How does that not stand out?</p>

<p>He then said that I should've joined academic teams. My dad has REPEATEDLY told me the last four years not to join the teams I was trying out for---Government Team, Math Team, Quiz Bowl, Science Olympiad---saying they were stupid.</p>

<p>mathmom: I showed him an application once, and he didn't want to read it. I think he still believes that he's right, despite the thousands of admissions officers saying the exact opposite statements.</p>

<p>ADad: What my dad considers a "good" college is "anything above UCLA." You can interpret that any way you want.</p>

18

<p>Tubaman:</p>

<p>Sorry things are not better. Can you get your mom to intercede on your behalf? Can you ask her to represent to your dad that he is not helping you put together the best application? It's too late to join whatever team he thinks you should have joined. Even if he were right, which he is not, it's too late to make a difference. The issue now is to present what you have done (not what you should have done) in the most positive light. If he cannot help you there, he should not undermine your self-confidence because it has a direct impact on how you present yourself to adcoms. That should be the message your mom gives your dad.</p>

<p>Good luck. Keep on venting as needed.</p>

19

<p>marite: </p>

<p>Unfortunately my mom is out of the country. She won't be back till next week. I'll have to tell him that such pressure is really not helping my supposed situation, and for moratorium on college talk until April.</p>

<p>I have a feeling that he'll be proven wrong, however. My mom helps me on personal statements, and the ones I'm making are actually pretty good. </p>

<p>My dad almost never listens to my mom regarding anything. He blames her for allegedly screwing up my high school career. </p>

<p>Oh and btw, I asked a friend regarding that one guy who won that award at JPL, and he doesn't know him as well. My friend is a captain of Quiz Bowl, and a member of numerous teams.</p>

20

<p>This is of small help, but re: the Marching Band, I know lots of Asian and other parents who dislike anything to do with music or the performing arts if it's an ensemble. They are thinking in terms of individual achievement.</p>

<p>I'll tell you, and if you can try to tell him, but for your own sake: the point is that American business culture (taking its cue somewhat from Japanese models) wants people who can work in a team, ensemble, group environment as a member of a team with one's own expertise to offer. You are learning in marching band, in addition to the tuba and synchronized moves, a lot of important work skills to do with: being aware of others' needs as you work together, demonstrating enthusaism for your school as a cultural unit, practice, training, discipline. If he can't see why that helps you be a good student, he's thinking only competitively about student life. Even there, there are sometimes group projects and you can't get your ideas respected if you don't know how to walk into a room and say, "Good morning.." and know the name of their brother, etc. These are social skills that have a lot to do with future success. </p>

<p>AdComs keep one eye on admissions but another on longterm success of their graduates. When you have been in a marching band, it speaks to them that y0ou know how to walk in the cold with others...not run with scissors into peoples' backs.</p>

<p>-- aunt of a marching jazz band member entering a fine university (and Band was central to his EC's and apps); SIL of a h.s. "precision-drill-team drummer" who is now a successful attorney near Philadelphia...</p>