Yes a lot of engineers do co-ops which make it difficult to graduate in 4 years.
Ultimately, the larger state schools are giving kids a chance to make it in engineering. No doubt not all of them will. And its not a random chance in terms of whatever percentage will make it through. But they likely can’t predict who will just make it through. So they have a chance to see if they can make it. Some will decide on something else.
The first college level math class for some is the end of any engineering dreams. Just like that entry college chemistry class dashes a lot of med school hopes.
It is likely that the dominant effects on retention-in-major rates for engineering students are from admission selectivity. Stronger incoming students are more likely to be able to handle the work of an engineering major.
Another effect on retention-in-major rates at some colleges is the existence of an entry-to-major process or progression requirements that require competitive admission or a college GPA substantially higher than 2.0 (i.e. intentionally weeding out students to get enrollment within department capacity). Purdue’s retention-in-major rates for engineering are probably reduced due to having such a program (3.2 college GPA needed to choose major; otherwise competitive for remaining space available).
Wisconsin is a school where the typical engineering student is of honors caliber- in fact, several years ago they started offering the L&S Honors Program application to all incoming students because of the rise in caliber of admitted students. Eons ago in my era many students did not succeed while in this era they admit with the expectation a student can handle it.
Remember not all college classes or the same. AP is only of a mediocre college level, elite schools may not accept AP credits because the courses do not offer as much material. UW students who “pass” an AP calculus exam may not be prepared for the next course and should start with the first UW version. Yes, on paper, all students will take courses a-z, but the content can vary greatly. Otherwise there would be no reason to bother with elite schools- an MIT degree would mean the same knowledge as the below average Podunk college degree.
The OP states he has the money for college, hence he doesn’t need to be as concerned about it. He has options and should look beyond just the most affordable. It would be a no-brainer for him- son goes to top tier UIUC.
Class size. A large or small lecture makes no difference but those large lectures will have small discussion and lab groups. A PhD bound TA at a top school is great for those- and will be that small school’s professor in the not too distant future.
Guess what- there are many, many colleges that will give thousands of students a good education. Bias towards many depends on what people know and where they live.
Wisconsin gives advanced placement for AP calculus with a score of 4, so those who “pass” with a 3 do not get advanced placement in calculus courses (unlike those who earn 4 or 5): https://www.admissions.wisc.edu/apply/freshman/apib.php
Presumably this is based on a study they did where they found that students who scored 4 did about as well in calculus 2 as students who started in calculus 1 at Wisconsin.
But then perhaps some students repeat their AP credit to try to increase their chances of getting A grades to pass the progression requirement GPAs.
UIUC and Georgia Tech are not safeties for him. You may be looking at rack price for him if he is accepted. He needs some true safeties. Purdue probably is.
Your son does have strong stats; however, (in agreement with gearmom in post #186) beware that getting an acceptance to UIUC or GT engineering has become quite competitive. Has he taken the SAT subject tests (math 2 and a science)? UCLA does not require, only recommends these SAT 2 test for applicants to School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, but I am quite sure almost all who apply to SEAS send in SAT subject test scores.
Also I don’t see any engineering ECs, I don’t see any engineering research, robotics competitions, state or national level math and science awards. The competition for spots at UIUC and GTech is global with no shortage of top stat kids with more. UIUC will hold spots for in state kids. That is your advatage but please include some real safeties for him.
Any other poster feel like they didn’t really master the material offered when they got less than an A in a course? Especially in math and other subjects that build on past knowledge/skills redoing a college level course may be better than forging ahead- not for that almighty gpa, but to learn the version the school offers.
I wanted to say our midwestern major metro has seen some odd results from UMichigan this year too. My kid was wait listed from L&S with a 4.0, 32 dual enroll credits, and a 34 ACT. He has another friend waitlisted with a 35 ACT and similar stats. Both have very deep extracurriculars. I don’t think you can assume anything when it comes to another stat’s flagship unless you bring something particularly unique to the table.
MANY engineering programs in particular will have all the students as very high stat honors students ( U of MN, UW Madison, etc). I think there are many great choices out there.
UMich admission is getting more difficult by year. The Class of 2022 had a record number of applications at 65,684. Class of 2023 students/parents reporting back from orientations this summer have posted here in CC that UMich representatives have stated UMich has received over 70,000 applications for the past admissions cycle.
The UMich acceptance rate will continue to decline. Also, essays are critical to UMich application.
My experience with UMich admissions has been all over the map in terms of the Early Action. Kids in our area with high stats have been deferred whereas those with lower ones have been accepted. I did not do real numbers analysis as to what the final outcomes were once the RD decisions came. The school and majors also seemed all over the map. I am not including audition based admissions here. These are all OOS applicants.
One young man I know this year did get an acceptance after a deferral. He will be going there.
I agree that it is difficult to impossible to gauge chances for UMich admissions these days for OOS applicants.
A couple notes of interest regarding UMich admissions this past cycle (Class of 2023).
CC had very few acceptance postings from the waitlist this past admissions cycle. Only 4 CC members posted (waitlist) acceptances. And a couple of other “friend of friends.” For CC, that’s low.
The other piece of information is that UMich is trying to achieve more diversity with the new SAT adversity index:
Notwithstanding, although CC is a very small sample size, year-over-year (Class of 2023 vs 2022), the GPA’s and test scores of UMich’s accepted applicants posting here on CC were UP for EA and RD (includes deferred EA).
@sushiritto. Thanks for the article. I didn’t even realize this but the example for Chicago was exactly what we went through when my son was a freshman for the selective enrollment high schools in Chicago so we lived through this (didn’t even realize it actually). Because of where we live in Chicago he had to score a higher number 896/900 to get admitted compared to someone in a less economical neighborhood to get enrolled into certain high schools. There could be a 50 point swing or higher depending on the school. His at the time was the number 1 school in Chicago and state .
But here’s the thing, the principles were a bit apprehensive if the students from “x” neighborhoods could keep up due to their disadvantage. One of my sons friend’s came from over 2 hour bus/train ride each way. Long story most did but it took effort to make it happen. The school is very diverse and great kids /families. Kids on welfare to kids from elite private schools and everything in between. Their avg Act his senior year was 31.5 for the school.
@Knowsstuff That makes sense with the high ACT average then. My D19’s school has 850-900 per grade. I wander if they took the highest 250 scorers what the average would be. I know they had over 100 kids get the IL scholar award.
At his school it’s crazy since like they are all IL scholars and it means very little to them. These are selective enrollment high schools not the avg. High school. So yes, it’s the cream of the crop per se which makes it that more competitive and more like a college atmosphere. https://selectiveprep.com/selective-enrollment-high-school-profiles/
About if I remember 18,000 Applications for 3,000 seats. The top 7 schools tend to be the top in the state. So applying to college was a breeze… Lol??.
One school Lane Tech has 1,000 students per class so after that school just 2,000 seats left. Crazy.