Parent realizing I'm lost

Parents Forum
21

All these schools have good engineering programs. In the end, you should go with the most cost effective.

They are all top 10 for engineering. They have great to good business programs.

Differences…

Michigan, Purdue, Illinois have 30k ugrads
GT 15k ugrads

Michigan, Purdue, Illinois are Universities (200+ degree programs)
GT is an Institute/Engineering school ( ~40 degree programs)

Michigan, Purdue, Illinois are ~35% STEM
GT is 80% STEM

Michigan, Purdue, Illinois are in towns.
GT is in a city (with the world’s largest & busiest airport).

Michigan, Purdue, Illinois are cold weather schools.
GT is warm weather.

For engineering degree:
GT, Illinois, Michigan, Purdue

For business degree:
Michigan, GT, Purdue/Illinois

For difficulty of admission:
GT, Michigan, Illinois, Purdue

22

No I don’t think any games are played. Schools don’t know where else you apply. I have heard that places like GT like extracurriculars that show volunteering and also engineering-specific ECs look good. Your son does seem just a little low on leadership and ECs in general and you haven’t mentioned any awards but those could be important too for schools that have more holistic admissions.

23

Here is a site that provides a good overview of public honors colleges: https://publicuniversityhonors.com/new-top-programs-by-category/

The “intends engineering but maybe business” suggests that you may want to look at the strength and offerings of both the engineering and business schools. Anecdotally, engineering is starting to sound to me like pre-med, meaning that smart kids who are good in STEM choose it as their major initially, and then a chunk decide that it’s not for them.

When I took my D to visit colleges back in 2013-14, she was focused on engineering, as were the majority of her smart, high achieving friends. A number of them chose public Honors Colleges or programs. Fast forward four years (she just graduated) and only one of the bunch who intended to major in engineering actually did so:

D went to South Carolina, a highly-ranked public honors college, She majored in International Business (one of that school’s strengths) and Econ; has a very good job, zero debt, living on her own. Will start company-funded CFA process shortly.

Penn State (Schreyer Honors, also highly ranked): Dropped engineering, transferred to Wharton in Year 2, majored in something business-y and works for a boutique investment bank in NYC.

U Vermont Honors: Switched from civil/environmental engineering to some sort of environmental studies major and is now at her parents, working part time and prepping for the LSAT.

Two or three friends went to Pitt for engineering (don’t know how many were in Honors, but Pitt’s Honors program is not so structured as some others anyway). They all switched majors within Year 1 (some within Month 1!), and graduated on time (with jobs, though I don’t know what they do).

U Delaware Honors: Switched from chemical engineering to Accounting almost immediately and works for a Big 4 Firm that’s paying for her grad work in Data Analytics.

Temple Honors: Entered undecided, considering engineering; ended up in Actuarial Science with a very good job.

Rice: Started in engineering but switched to something in business pretty early on and now works for a hedge fund in NYC – just to show it wasn’t just the public school kids :slight_smile: who switched out of engineering.

The only one from D’s group who stuck with engineering went to Stevens and loves it. She will graduate in five years with some lucrative summer and semester-long co-ops with good companies. She will likely be highly employable even though she’s in biomedical engineering.

Obviously this is just one person’s personal experience. I don’t doubt that a number of D’s classmates stayed with engineering and did well; they’re just not the ones she kept in touch with.

My point is that not every kid, even the very bright ones, who think they want engineering will stay with it. Large schools like UIUC, Purdue, Alabama, etc., have different strengths beyond their engineering departments that may be worth investigating.

24

I agree that GT is a harder admit than Michigan, at least from my kids’ north suburban Chicago school. There aren’t good comparison numbers for class of 2023 admit rates yet, but GT OOS admit rate was 14.9% - a significant drop from class of 2022’s OOS rate of 19%. I expect the OOS engineering acceptance rate is lower than the 14.9% overall rate as well. https://www.news.gatech.edu/2019/03/09/next-class-yellow-jackets-gets-admission-decisions
https://www.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/documents/georgia-tech-freshman-profile-2018.pdf

I haven’t seen U Mich numbers for class of 2023, but last year’s OOS acceptance rate was 19.4%. Our high school sees a relatively large number of acceptances to UMich (although it has declined over the last 5 years or so). https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2018/06/university_of_michigan_receive_8.html

Regardless, both schools are reaches for OP’s S…UIUC engineering is a more likely admit for OP and less expensive too. If OP’s high school has Naviance, that will be helpful in categorizing schools.

25

Engineering receives $100 million: https://www.chicagobusiness.com/john-pletz-technology/u-i-renames-engineering-school-grainger
Business received $150 million: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-univ-illinois-donation-20171026-story.html
New state budget increases high education funding
https://will.illinois.edu/news/story/u-of-i-president-delighted-by-new-state-budget

26

@121IllinoisDad didn’t say his son wanted business. He said he maybe would do business via and industrial engineering degree. So I think he’s just looking at undergrad engineering. @121IllinoisDad don’t get confused with so much info here on CC. Like I said earlier, a college search can be as complicated or as simple as you want it to be. With your S’s goals, I would just stick to your original list unless he is open to going farther away and then maybe you can open options to schools that offer merit. I still think you won’t find a better value than UIUC for engineering.

27

You probably could make this a very simple process like some have said and mainly just plan on UIUC.

That being said with those stats you most likely could find cheaper options than even UIUC.

So in the end you can do the easy thing or do a ton of research and figure out if there is a school your son would more like to attend that will still meet his needs.

28

Not sure how much you’d really save. Full tuition is unlikely. Half tuition won’t save you that much and then there’s travel costs to get back and forth from somewhere that requires flights. It’s not unsubstantial if a student intends to come home for breaks. Could easily be another $2000 for travel. Maybe more. Half tuition at Alabama means about $13,000 for tuition. UIUC in state tuition for engineering is $17,000.

29

@homerdog Do middle school awards count? He earned a few that made us very proud. First, he was the only student to be honored with a “top academic achievement” award in every year of middle school (six given out per grade). Others students earned it once or twice but he was the only three year winner. Upon graduation he also earned an award for the student who best personified the school’s ethos (teacher voted). That is only given out to one 8th grade student per year (~300 students per class at a well regarded school in Glenview). Regardless, good to know that this is an area to work on.

30

@121IllinoisDad unfortunately no. Just awards won in high school. Take a look at the Common App and you will see the different sections. The one for awards is for academic awards. NMF, AP scholar, deans list etc. He would name any other awards in each extracurricular section like, if he won any awards in soccer, they would go in the part of the app where he’s describing his soccer EC. Kids with non-academic awards like medals for math competitions, robotics, Model UN, etc., put their awards in this section. Our S19 won a Scholastic Art Award and that went into his EC section for art. All of his leadership would be called out within these EC descriptions as well.

31

The most important thing regarding an Engineering degree is that the school is ABET accredited. Beyond that, school reputation can be helpful, but opportunities are available everywhere.

Your son’s stats would probably him some merit aid at Pitt, and I would suggest adding that to your list. D will be a sophomore IE student this fall. Pitt offers several benefits that are relatively unique:

[ul]
[li]** Rolling admissions**. Get your acceptance very early in the process (Oct/Nov if you apply before the end of September)[/li][li]Application Fee Waiver. They give waiver coupons if you do a campus visit.[/li][li]First Year Engineering Program. Common curriculum for all first year engineers. Declaring a specific field isn’t done until the Spring semester, and students take a zero credit seminar course designed to help them select their field.[/li][li]Engineer Focused English Comp. English Comp is replaced with Engineering Analysis that addresses the writing requirements of a freshman English Comp course by focusing on different Engineering aspects. D learned Matlab, HTML, and other skills that her Engineering peers at other schools have yet to learn.[/li][li]Small School, Big University. The College of Engineering enrolls 600-700 freshmen students each year at the Pittsburgh campus, but the total UG enrollment is ~19,000. You get a large university feel while maintaining a small engineering cohort.[/li][li]IE International Component. IE requires either focused international study, an internship abroad, or study abroad as part of the degree requirements.[/li][li]GE3 Study Abroad Participation. Engineering-focused study abroad exchanges with a lot of schools in Europe, Asia, South America, and Australia.[/li][/ul]

32

If applying to CalPoly SLO, be sure to understand the reporting of 8th grade courses on the application (accelerated math and foreign language).

Many applicants don’t know to include, and it’s not super apparent on the app. There is a “how to” complete the app guide on CalPoly SLO website.

33

UMich has been giving crazy EA results in last 5 years in NY area. Not GT. They also have a management program. One of mine applied for that along with a scholarship that required a super early app with essays. Sent it all off early. Didn’t hear peep from them, not a postcard or email till Spring. Accepted but no money

34

I agree with @LuckyCharms913.

We’re seeing many kids taking this approach. The intention is to get a marketable engineering degree and then segue into a business/management role. My strong STEM son considered this path. My husband did it…majoring in engineering, figuring it out by junior year that he definitely didn’t want to work as a engineer (even though his grandfathers were both engineers), completed his degree and then went straight for an MBA.

But the number of people trying to do this seems to have increased greatly from when we were in college. It may not be as easy as it once was. Work requirements before pursuing an MBA makes it more difficult to go “straight through” and of course it’s much more expensive now.

Before our son applied to colleges, my husband had several discussions about “being an engineer”…the coursework and different types of engineering majors/jobs. They discussed the IE route. They discussed career paths. We talked expectations regarding employment/salary/lifestyle.

@121IllinoisDad I suggest you take a little time and explore majors/careers with your son before delving into the college search. It may help clarify what your son wants/would benefit from a school and save some time and energy in the long run. The trick is getting your son to do some honest self-reflection now. Changing from Engineering to Business or vice verse is not a slam dunk at UIUC. Keep the ease/difficulty of transferring majors in mind when comparing schools.

Oh, and in case you’re interested, our son chose majoring in business at UIUC. He graduated a few weeks ago with Finance and Accounting degrees and a minor in Technology and Management. He’ll start work in Chicago as a financial consultant for a global consulting firm in September.

35

OP’s son’s stats would be pretty much full tuition at Alabama, @ 26,000 / year. New scholarship info comes out soon, but scholarships are automatic with those GPA and ACT values.

https://scholarships.ua.edu/freshman/out-of-state/
If OP’s son attains National Merit Finalist, the scholarship would grow to include room and board, full tuition for 5 years, and more.
https://scholarships.ua.edu/nationalscholars/

36

Umich engineering & business have significantly lower admission rates than Umich overall. I’d expect that they would be on par with GT for OOS

37

@Dudewith2 I stand corrected! Wow. Don’t show my husband those numbers. S19 was NMF. He wouldn’t have liked Alabama but, geez, free is a good price.

38

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the guaranteed merit award this kid would receive at University of Alabama with his stats. They have excellent engineering programs…and facilities.

I’m not sure why you are looking at the honors colleges. There was a recent thread about Pitt engineering…and a kid did not choose Pitt because Pitt didn’t accept her into the honors college. A large number of posters remarked that the engineering students didn’t bother with the honors college.

But…Pitt would be worth looking into!

39

I get the impression that @121IllinoisDad thinks there may be a lot of OOS publics that have big merit for his son. Alabama is one that is a sure bet. Pitt not so much on the merit front. I’m sure there are others but, again, what would be the reason to chose one over UIUC? Iowa State also has big merit for OOS. I believe there engineering programs are strong but business is better at UIUC. Iowa and Kansas would also give this student money. Both would be less expensive than UIUC. Again, though, programs need to be compared.

40

It seems as if your search could be way less complicated than it may seem right now. You have a great in-state option.

Not sure about savings from honors colleges. I generally have thought of them, perhaps incorrectly, as marketing tools. So scholarships may be offered to increase the standing of the school, but if a school needs that, perhaps that is not good :slight_smile:

I want to echo other posters in saying that the usual criteria, size, location, price, academics, EC’s/sports, weather and especially, perhaps, "vibe’ are all important.

I am curious why your son wants a big school. (Around my area, engineering kids look at Olin, an amazing little school, and Tufts, also small though not as small as Olin. A few look at UVM along with UMass. And of course MIT, WPI, RPI)